Anyone Else Feel This Way ???

[wmcdonald]

Raise the bar and create a process for educational growth. My wife-Kelly just sat on the review board at Laurie's school and was blown away by what they do and the tools available to the students. Kelly had the opportunity to meet the students for a quesstion and answer session. The questions we awesome and the energy of the students was infectious. The students would gladly accept a higher bar to jump if possible.

But a six figure job requires six years of base education for a group of employees to demand and earn that kind of wage.

THINK ABOUT IT!!!!:drop::drop:

That is one of the primary goals for the SAO. A degree at that level is important, but must also be supported by indistry. We are working on it. One real problem is that most of the folks in leadership roles have no education to speak of, and they see it as a threat. That is a real issue, but once we start to recognize and reqrad people for educational attainment we will gain ground.

[optical24/7]

Let’s say we have 3 brick masons. All learned their craft by apprenticeship. One learned how to make bricks. One learned to make mortar and the third learned how to lay them properly. But each never had the chance to learn the other’s craft because their mentor’s didn’t know nor have experience in the other’s expertise.

This very much correlates with opticianry. With apprenticeship and OTJ you are only going to learn as much as your teacher knows and your personal experiences taught you. I’m lucky to know quite a few Master Opticians. All to the person are exceptional in their knowledge, but each one has their own personal level of experience and knowledge. In other words, just because one knows something in particular doesn’t mean the other knows it too.

With a uniform curriculum we could bring a more uniform knowledge base for opticians entering the field. Give everyone the same building blocks to expand their knowledge and understanding. Will someone come out of an accredited school ready to run on their own? No. But they will have a shorter learning curve and will grasp new concepts easier than strictly through apprenticeship

[Chris Ryser]

I've got to agree with 24/7 here. We need to "legislate" first. We've got to get licensing across all states. For the life of me, I don't understand why those states that aren't "licensed states" don't jump on in? At the VERY LEAST every state would have a new avenue for revenue....

I agree with above opinion............however if it could not be done in the past 50 years it can not be done now.

What is the difference between optical businesses in regulated states and non regulated States ? = educated and experienced staff in one and not the other.

Logical deduction = where would you prefer to be served for a good service and product at a decent price ?

[Wes]

Loads of things can be done now that couldn't be done 50 years ago. Digital cameras, adaptive optics telescopes, home pcs, telephones that are more powerful than supercomputers 50 yrs ago, manned space stations, cruise missiles, and the like. Socially, the civil rights movement, more women and minorities in positions of power such as in Congress, on the Supreme Court, becoming CEOs of fortune 500 companies, now we have gay marriage and civil unions and the repeal of don't ask don't tell...
The world is changing more than you think. Heck, I'm even meeting, wait for it...

Opticians who want to be educated! Gasp!!

[gmc]

The world is changing more than you think. Heck, I'm even meeting, wait for it...

Opticians who want to be educated! Gasp!!

Amazing isn't it! The sad part is there are many more that don't want to be.

[alaneyeball]

I agree with above opinion............however if it could not be done in the past 50 years it can not be done now.

What is the difference between optical businesses in regulated states and non regulated States ? = educated and experienced staff in one and not the other.

Logical deduction = where would you prefer to be served for a good service and product at a decent price ?

I operate in licensed and unlicensed states, the difference is not competance of the optical staff it is the cost of the employees. In licensed states the opticians earn between 60 and 120% more than in unlicensed states. This relates to cost to the consumer. Wally World and the other biggys much perfer unlicensed states for this reason. In licensed states the only thing opticians are used for is dispensing, In some states the Optometrist does all of the measuring and the untrained sales people do all of the lens selection and frame selections with the customers. The actual result for the consumer however is ultamatly about the same in Licensed and unlicensed states except for cost.

[Wes]

Whoops. Double post. If Fezz were still around he'd drop by and say:

"You can say that again, Wes!"

[Wes]

Alan eyeball: Could you please re-edit? It still appears to be misspelled and mistyped. It looks like it says that "in licensed states the only thing an optician is used for is dispensing." As a licensed optician, I'm very aware that's not the case. Was there something else you meant to say?

[alaneyeball]

Alan eyeball: Could you please re-edit? It still appears to be misspelled and mistyped. It looks like it says that "in licensed states the only thing an optician is used for is dispensing." As a licensed optician, I'm very aware that's not the case. Was there something else you meant to say?

excuse my spelling but I usually have people who edit my work, but on this type venue I just type. (I am probably the worst speller you'll ever come across).

To the point no I meant that, most large volume chain operations in licensed states use the majority of dispensers tyme dispensing and checking in work.

[wmcdonald]

excuse my spelling but I usually have people who edit my work, but on this type venue I just type. (I am probably the worst speller you'll ever come across).

To the point no I meant that, most large volume chain operations in licensed states use the majority of dispensers tyme dispensing and checking in work.

Research data indicates that the salary differences between licensed and unlicensed states are not as far apart as you would think. It is only approximately 3K. This figure was taken from a study I completed a few years back, and validated by annual salary data from the NAO. Ther real problem is perception. Folks (again according to published research) feel as though we have a bachelors degree. In most states, we are only required a pulse. We must do something. If there was a similar education adn training requirement across the conutry, you would not hear all this division, and the playing field would be more level.

[alaneyeball]

Research data indicates that the salary differences between licensed and unlicensed states are not as far apart as you would think. It is only approximately 3K. This figure was taken from a study I completed a few years back, and validated by annual salary data from the NAO. Ther real problem is perception. Folks (again according to published research) feel as though we have a bachelors degree. In most states, we are only required a pulse. We must do something. If there was a similar education adn training requirement across the conutry, you would not hear all this division, and the playing field would be more level.

I hate to tell you your wrong,
here are the real numbers from the Bureau of labor statistics for 09' As you will see below licensed opticians earn in many states multiples of those who work in unlicensed states.
Occupational Employment and Wages, May 2009

29-2081 Opticians, Dispensing

Design, measure, fit, and adapt lenses and frames for client according to written optical prescription or specification. Assist client with selecting frames. Measure customer for size of eyeglasses and coordinate frames with facial and eye measurements and optical prescription. Prepare work order for optical laboratory containing instructions for grinding and mounting lenses in frames. Verify exactness of finished lens spectacles. Adjust frame and lens position to fit client. May shape or reshape frames. Include contact lens opticians.
National estimates for this occupation
Industry profile for this occupation
State profile for this occupation
Metropolitan area profile for this occupation

National estimates for this occupation: Top

Employment estimate and mean wage estimates for this occupation:
Employment (1) Employment
RSE (3) Mean hourly
wageMean annual
wage (2) Wage RSE (3) 60,8402.2 %$16.73$34,7900.9 %
Percentile wage estimates for this occupation:
Percentile 10% 25% 50%
(Median) 75% 90% Hourly Wage $10.16$12.54$15.74$20.03$24.31Annual Wage (2) $21,120$26,070$32,740$41,660$50,560

Industry profile for this occupation: Top

Industries with the highest published employment and wages for this occupation are provided. For a list of all industries with employment in this occupation, see the Create Customized Tables function.
Industries with the highest levels of employment in this occupation:
Industry Employment Hourly mean wage Annual mean wage Offices of Other Health Practitioners 24,420$15.41$32,050Health and Personal Care Stores 21,330$17.40$36,190Offices of Physicians 7,920$17.51$36,430Other General Merchandise Stores 3,440$18.66$38,810Department Stores 1,550$15.69$32,630
Top paying industries for this occupation:
Industry Employment Hourly mean wage Annual mean wage Employment Services (8) $22.75$47,320General Medical and Surgical Hospitals 460$20.67$43,000Outpatient Care Centers 520$20.25$42,120Medical Equipment and Supplies Manufacturing 450$19.00$39,520Other General Merchandise Stores 3,440$18.66$38,810

State profile for this occupation: Top

States with the highest published employment concentrations and wages for this occupation are provided. For a list of all States with employment in this occupation, see the Create Customized Tables function.
States with the highest concentration of workers in this occupation:
State Employment Hourly mean wage Annual mean wage Employment per thousand workers North Dakota 350$13.50$28,0700.995South Dakota 360$13.35$27,7600.922Montana 390$13.53$28,1500.894Missouri 1,800$12.78$26,5800.675Nebraska 620$12.39$25,7600.673
Top paying States for this occupation:
State Employment Hourly mean wage Annual mean wage Employment per thousand workers Connecticut 460$25.09$52,1800.282Massachusetts 1,550$23.89$49,6900.490New Jersey 1,350$23.62$49,1300.350Virginia 1,880$22.37$46,5400.524New York 2,920$22.09$45,9400.343

Metropolitan area profile for this occupation: Top

Metropolitan areas with the highest published employment concentrations and wages for this occupation are provided. For a list of all Metropolitan areas with employment in this occupation, see the Create Customized Tables function.
Metropolitan areas with the highest concentration of workers in this occupation:
MSA Employment Hourly mean wage Annual mean wage Employment per thousand workers Ames, IA 70$12.63$26,2601.715Sebastian-Vero Beach, FL 70$17.88$37,1901.544Dover, DE 90$18.76$39,0201.479Billings, MT 110$14.44$30,0401.409Green Bay, WI 230$13.90$28,9001.377
Top paying metropolitan areas for this occupation:
MSA Employment Hourly mean wage Annual mean wage Employment per thousand workers Nassau-Suffolk, NY Metropolitan Division 390$29.05$60,4200.316Lynchburg, VA 60$28.03$58,3000.557Punta Gorda, FL 50$27.99$58,2101.177Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA NECTA Division 750$27.89$58,0100.445New Haven, CT 140$27.04$56,2400.517

About May 2009 National, State, Metropolitan, and Nonmetropolitan Area Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates
These estimates are calculated with data collected from employers in all industry sectors in metropolitan and nonmetropolitan areas in every State and the District of Columbia. The top five employment and wage figures are provided above. The complete list is available in the downloadable XLS files.
Percentile wage estimates show the percentage of workers in an occupation that earn less than a given wage and the percentage that earn more. The median wage is the 50th percentile wage estimate--50 percent of workers earn less than the median and 50 percent of workers earn more than the median. More about percentile wages.


(1) Estimates for detailed occupations do not sum to the totals because the totals include occupations not shown separately. Estimates do not include self-employed workers.
(2) Annual wages have been calculated by multiplying the hourly mean wage by a "year-round, full-time" hours figure of 2,080 hours; for those occupations where there is not an hourly mean wage published, the annual wage has been directly calculated from the reported survey data.
(3) The relative standard error (RSE) is a measure of the reliability of a survey statistic. The smaller the relative standard error, the more precise the estimate.
(8) Estimate not released.

[optical24/7]

Alan, the states listed don’t compare in cost of living. It cost more to live in NJ, Connecticut and many licensed states compared to the Dakota’s Nebraska, ect. I also know that glasses don’t cost consumers a lot more just because a state is licensed. If it costs more you can bet the overall cost of living is higher there.

[wmcdonald]

The bls data is good information, and I appreciate you posting it, but it is not well defined. I have conducted research on this population several times, and selected Opticians, not just folks who worked in a doc's office of took out the trash at corporate optical, as did the bls. Note also the self-described limitations in the study. It only included those who were not self-employed. Why not, they typically are the highest paid Opticians? Again, I appreciate your posting this, but I would suggest the data from my study and the NAO survey would be more specific in defining Opticians and not just folks who work in eye care in general. My SD was about $1500.00 if memory serves me well.

[Now I See]

I agree with above opinion............however if it could not be done in the past 50 years it can not be done now.

What is the difference between optical businesses in regulated states and non regulated States ? = educated and experienced staff in one and not the other.

Logical deduction = where would you prefer to be served for a good service and product at a decent price ?

Hi Chris! :)

What I was thinking of was the amount of money the state would get as a result of the Optician having to renew their professional licenses.

[optical24/7]

http://www.ihireoptometry.com/t-Optician-s-Arkansas-salary.html

http://salary-surveys.erieri.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Datasearch.Main&Tier=II&OESArea=50000&S urveyId=209&Job=71234&CountryId=193

Arkansas is a Licensed state, check out their averages above. (P.S. I work in an un-licensed state and my salary is way higher than Arkansas’ average.)

Optician’s salary is much more connected with..
1. Availability
2. Cost of living of said location

[alaneyeball]

Alan, the states listed don’t compare in cost of living. It cost more to live in NJ, Connecticut and many licensed states compared to the Dakota’s Nebraska, ect. I also know that glasses don’t cost consumers a lot more just because a state is licensed. If it costs more you can bet the overall cost of living is higher there.

Very good point and what you say is true as far as cost of living. But the average unite of eyeglasses sold in the unlicensed states is only costed to the consumer at 66% on average of the private practioners and the average in the higher cost states. The reason is the mass merchants take up a huge % of the units and Third party product assumes a very stiff % of units, Wally World and Cosco, BJ's etc. drive the units in semi-rural, rural and suburban areas.
The average private office in most of the unlicensed states other than Mo, Ne, Nm, Nv,Md only sell 3.7 patients per day with an average of 1.22 pairs of eyeglasses per patient. The chains sell 16-35 per day 7 days a week for an average of 1.36 Pairs per patient.

I work on statistics every day all day from all over the world. We have the most accurate numbers available except for the European countries. Never trust the numbers you get from the optical industry. They are highly skued by comercial interests that support the media reporting the statistics. Indipendent stat companies only take numbers off POS (point of sale systems) and In and OUt flow numbers. Inquiries are rarly made to companies for their numbers because they lie. The US Gov. has the best numbers, these are also usually adjusted for distortions and sample sizes.

Our industry is nothing like most of us precieve it.

[Uilleann]

Would you conclude that a national average of 30K - 48K would accurately fit the vast majority of dispensers in the US? Even those with degrees in opticianry?

[obxeyeguy]

The US Gov. has the best numbers, these are also usually adjusted for distortions and sample sizes.

This has to be one of the funniest comments I have ever seen here, other than something by Chip.:cheers: Thanks for the laugh!!

[alaneyeball]

Would you conclude that a national average of 30K - 48K would accurately fit the vast majority of dispensers in the US? Even those with degrees in opticianry?

No; if you look at the US Bureau of labor statistics for the states that are licensed with the highest concentration of opticians for the population you will see in these licensed states the Median (the middel level) yearly salary is over 49,000, that means that half of the 3000 + opticians in only two of those states earn more than that. $ 50,000+ is not 30-48K. Remember the bottom number in those states is about $ 40,000n and the top is over $ 75,000, In NC, NY, NJ, MA and Ct, I have overf 30 opticians who earn over $ 70,000, before bonus or perks. They are great managers and clinical opticians who operate units with huge volumes and they are worth every penny.

[optilady1]

Ok, I am a licensed optician in Connecticut, and I can tell you that the only people I know who are making more than 50 a year are managing corporate optical shops, or a few who fit specialty contact lenses. OR they live in Fairfield county and they are selling eyeglasses to the famous people.

[Craig]

Craig! Sweetie! I can't read that yellow font!! And please don't go all "Frank Zappa" on me. =)

Fixed and what is the Zappa? Explain.

[Craig]

Whoops. Double post. If Fezz were still around he'd drop by and say:

"You can say that again, Wes!"

Fezz is watching!

[Wes]

Yeah, so I hear. I was walking around Ft Jackson the other day and walked past a "Victory College" training site named after a Private Albert Fesmire. I sent him a pic inquiring if he was a relation. He needs to quit being a lurker and come back. I'm not nearly funny enough to fill the boots.

[DragonLensmanWV]

Fixed and what is the Zappa? Explain.

Watch out where the huskies go, do not eat the yellow snow.

[Judy Canty]

Fixed and what is the Zappa? Explain.

OMG! Am I that old??????