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Thread: Management Fail

  1. #1
    Barticus Prime - Optibot opticianbart's Avatar
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    Redhot Jumper Management Fail

    Seriously, this happened today.

    Assistant to one of the top management staff stops by the optical shop and hands me a memo stating that there will be an mandatory Ophthalmology staff meeting today a 1:00 in our dept. conference room. And I just looked at her and said "you realize that if I have to be at this I'm going to have to close the shop right?" and she's all "I don't know, I'm just handing out the memo."

    So I immediately call up my direct supervisor and before I even say anything I get "Yes Bart I realize you'll have to close down the shop. It'll be fine, the meeting won't be long."

    12:40 I put up a sign stating that I'm closed so I can finish up my line of customers. And that was my mistake because I didn't finish with them till 1:30. Then I run to the conference room and it's empty. Eventually I figure out that the meeting was moved to the ophthalmology waiting room (it was nice how no one told me.) So I get over there and join the meeting, and the management is all "it's fine, we understand you were busy."

    A few minutes later a patient walks in asking "Where's the optical shop, my glasses need a new screw." The management starts to tell them it's around the corner, and I say "Yeah, but it's closed right now." And the manager looks at me and says -wait for it, wait for it - "but...why is the optical shop closed!?!?!?!"

    "... because you TOLD ME I HAD TO BE AT YOUR MEETING!!!!"


    aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrggggg.
    plus the meeting had nothing to do with the optical shop and it kept me from getting lunch till 3:00


    /end vent


    I'm rather annoyed right now.
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  2. #2
    One of the worst people here
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    I have one of those every month. Now, I do not have to close up shop, but I do have to stop what I am doing (productive) and listen to our CEO go on for three hours about stuff that is no relevant to our organization, just so she thinks she is valuable.

  3. #3
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    I hope you gave him one of these
    picard-facepalm.jpg
    ...Just ask me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life View Post
    I have one of those every month. Now, I do not have to close up shop, but I do have to stop what I am doing (productive) and listen to our CEO go on for three hours about stuff that is no relevant to our organization, just so she thinks she is valuable.


    I have had a few of those along the way. The most recent was my RM trying to make a paper trail to fire me. Which upon I went to the company with complaint. They said don't worry were a non retalaitory company three weeks later I m canned and company did nothing. I would watch your a-s!

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    Master OptiBoarder
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    on a daily basis....I am SO glad I made the move to private practice years ago...corporate BS is such a PITA! Sorry for any of you having to put up with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye2 View Post
    I have had a few of those along the way. The most recent was my RM trying to make a paper trail to fire me. Which upon I went to the company with complaint. They said don't worry were a non retalaitory company three weeks later I m canned and company did nothing. I would watch your a-s!
    You know, managers have a job to do. Most of the corporates I talk to would love to hire an Optician as their manager, but they typically cannot find one with the right educational credentials and background. A high school diploma will not typically suffice, and an apprenticeship (in Opticianry, commonly cheap labor) has no educational value in that realm either. Managers in every organization make decisions, and cannot legally fire an individual without making that paper trail you complain about here. First comes a verbal warning, then documentation and then termination. Now, I am not saying that you were not treated poorly, that just may be the case, but what was done here is what the way it is done in any large organization. Go to a better place, or better yet, start your own office. You just may find they did you a favor.

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    There is an old saying: "The boss isn't always right, but he is always the Boss."
    The thing that is most likely to irritate your superior above all is going over his head.

    Chip

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    The second most irritating thing?.....late for a corporate meeting! You are supposed to move heaven and earth, or at the very least, bowl over the little old lady with the cane(2 points) in order to be at that meeting on time! I mean......you made the management look bad for over-ordering one sandwich!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    You know, managers have a job to do. Most of the corporates I talk to would love to hire an Optician as their manager, but they typically cannot find one with the right educational credentials and background. A high school diploma will not typically suffice, and an apprenticeship (in Opticianry, commonly cheap labor) has no educational value in that realm either. Managers in every organization make decisions, and cannot legally fire an individual without making that paper trail you complain about here. First comes a verbal warning, then documentation and then termination. Now, I am not saying that you were not treated poorly, that just may be the case, but what was done here is what the way it is done in any large organization. Go to a better place, or better yet, start your own office. You just may find they did you a favor.


    WMC I don't know where your coming from. I have over 25 years in optical with a two year degree and years of management experience so if they wanted some one with optical experience I would have fit right in. It's been my experience they don't want some one in the RM's position who has any optical knowledge. The one that let me go has ZERO optical experience and really was not a good RM. Generally you sit down with people and work out the details instead of doing what she did not knowing what to do except let me go. Another one I heard of was with the Evil Empire. They have taken over a year to hire a manager for one of there stores even though a friend of mine applied who was licensed and 2 year degree and tons of experience in management but they have only been interviewing non optical people. So I don't know where you get off saying they are looking for qualified people when there are qualified people right under there noses but they would rather hire people from Gap or Diaper world. I think you should do a little more research before going out on that optical limb. :hammer:

  10. #10
    Ophthalmic Optician Wes's Avatar
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    http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...899#post376899

    These are my posts addressing a similar issue on another thread, link above:
    Quote Originally Posted by wss2020 View Post

    Most "opticians" enter the field looking for a JOB. Any job.

    Most "opticians" don't know jack about opticianry, let alone management.

    Most "opticians" in licensing states learn from another "optician" who knows little through an apprenticeship program.

    Most "opticians" are high school graduates. There are a few with business degrees, but they are rare. There are a few more with business sense, and most of them can be found here. Talk to Johns, Braheem, Barry, etc.
    Most RMs, DMs, and the like have business education and upper management backgrounds. Few "opticians" have this. "Opticians" may think they can run businesses, but I doubt most of them could survive long in upper level corporate opticals. They just don't know the lingo. Independents, sure.
    That's why.

    Want it to change? Go to school, get a real education and come back to the business as upper management and help fix the problem.

    Wes

    Quote Originally Posted by wss2020 View Post
    Most RMs and DMs I've met knew less about opticianry than most "opticians" I've met, which isn't much. But they usually know a h3ll of a lot more about business. What we need are REAL Opticians educated in business in these positions.


    Quote Originally Posted by wss2020 View Post
    RMs and DMs SHOULD be well educated in opticianry, but they don't HAVE to be. When a large optical chain is looking for senior management, they look for people with senior management skills and education. Opticianry knowledge is a secondary concern for them. They HAVE to be educated in business. Most opticians are not. How many opticians do you know with degrees in business (or otherwise)? I know a few, but the vast majority do not have formal education. You don't see many highly qualified opticians with business degrees in RM and DM positions, and that's probably a good thing for independents. It might be pretty ugly for them to have an ABOM with an MBA running a chain (Costco, Walmart, etc) of stores in a metro area.
    I believe this is what Warren was addressing when he said "Most of the corporates I talk to would love to hire an Optician as their manager, but they typically cannot find one with the right educational credentials and background. A high school diploma will not typically suffice, and an apprenticeship (in Opticianry, commonly cheap labor) has no educational value in that realm either."
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, OO, LDO, ABOM, NCLE-AC

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    :shiner:
    Quote Originally Posted by wss2020 View Post
    http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...899#post376899
    These are my posts addressing a similar issue on the above:

    I believe this is what Warren was addressing when he said "Most of the corporates I talk to would love to hire an Optician as their manager, but they typically cannot find one with the right educational credentials and background. A high school diploma will not typically suffice, and an apprenticeship (in Opticianry, commonly cheap labor) has no educational value in that realm either."



    As I mentioned in the post I know of a number of opticians including myself who have optical and management skills but get turned down for the person from Diaper World or Toilet Universe. Come on! As I said before most RM's don't know a pd stick from slap stick. :hammer: :hammer::hammer: :shiner::shiner:

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    Having made the switch from corporate to private practice and back again I can tell you with certainty that corporate does not want managers with optical experience, they want managers with retail experience and preferably none in optical since opticians think well.....optically and they don't want that. Had a company wide meeting recently that asked all the employees in the room to raise their hands if they considered themselves an optician. Most hands went flying in the air. The next question was how many of you consider yourselves retail salespersons and no hands were raised. Those of us who actually are opticians didn't raise our hands either time because we do not even want to participate in the nonsense. If they wanted my help I would be glad to give it but they don't. I go to work, I take care of my patients, I don't make waves and I get paid every Friday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye2 View Post
    WMC I don't know where your coming from. I have over 25 years in optical with a two year degree and years of management experience so if they wanted some one with optical experience I would have fit right in. It's been my experience they don't want some one in the RM's position who has any optical knowledge. The one that let me go has ZERO optical experience and really was not a good RM. Generally you sit down with people and work out the details instead of doing what she did not knowing what to do except let me go. Another one I heard of was with the Evil Empire. They have taken over a year to hire a manager for one of there stores even though a friend of mine applied who was licensed and 2 year degree and tons of experience in management but they have only been interviewing non optical people. So I don't know where you get off saying they are looking for qualified people when there are qualified people right under there noses but they would rather hire people from Gap or Diaper world. I think you should do a little more research before going out on that optical limb. :hammer:
    Let me say this again, and read carefully so it will be clear. I was not attacking you personally. I am told by many corporates that they have better success (in their mind) with hiring managers with the right background and credentials to manage for them. They have established criteria for managers regarding education and training. They do not see most Opticians (note I do not say you, I do not know you) as having the right backgrounds. Does that indicate that we may need additional education and training? It does to me! Most 2-year degrees are technical degrees and not designed to train managers, but Opticians. I was also simply telling you that the very thing you were complaining about is the norm in any large organization. They hold the position, and you do not. Go compete with them! But before your try, I would know that managers should communicate clearly. You did not post your experience nor your education in your initial response to the OP, and I (again, so you will understand) suggest you take that experience and education and go compete with them. The paper trails you are so concerned about will be the same across larger organizations. I hope this is clear.

    Wes, you are correct. It does not matter to the corporates (generally speaking that is.....there are some who require solid optical backgrounds) if these folks are Opticians. They want someone who has the education and background in management, and consider us to be no more than glorified salespeople. We can do better, if we compete with them if we have the courage to do more than get on here and gripe. Unfortunately when someone like me, who supports Opticians to the maximum level, states what is widely known to most, someone like eye2 takes offense. It is not meant to be offensive, but it is what it is. We must educate ourselves more and get the background to do something more than take a PD and measure a seg height.

  14. #14
    Ophthalmic Optician Wes's Avatar
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    Guys, wmcdonald is a full professor at a university. when he's talking about formal education in business and management, he means at the Bachelor's and Master's level. That's what businesses are looking for to fill posts at the DM and RM level.
    While some RMs and DMs don't "know a pd stick from a slapstick", is it as important as understanding balance sheets, financial reports, HR issues, etc? No.
    Again, if you want to move past the Store Manager level, you usually need a 4 year degree.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, OO, LDO, ABOM, NCLE-AC

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    Gee, I can remember when a solid background for the optical profession was math. (Wish I had paid more attention to math in school.)
    It seems that the Optical business isn't really about optics any more, it's about sales.

  16. #16
    Ophthalmic Optician Wes's Avatar
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    The optical business is still a BUSINESS, and I'm pretty sure we are still SELLING the glasses.
    The larger the business, the more specialized the individual functions become.

    Why is it that every time the subject of educating opticians (in Opticianry, Business, and anything else, for that matter) we hear a bunch of naysayers spouting "we don't need no steenking edumacations!" It would be comical, if it weren't so sad.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, OO, LDO, ABOM, NCLE-AC

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    It didn't used to be a business, but a profession. But now even the professions especially ophthalmology have become sales and businesses. Really very sad.
    I for one would never object to education if it actually were still professional education. Now it seems to be 98% sales pitch on the latest and greatest. One often doesn't get to know the nuts and bolts of the latest and greatest because" :"It's proprietary" or incomprehensable without a PHD in physics, or polymer chemistry.
    Heard anyone describe the various shapes of noses? Ears? Devises to fit same in spectacles? The dozens of common hinge design? Frame Repair? Frame adjustment? Coloring frames? Modifying temple lengths, bridge widths? Even whether prism should be measured at a Pupilary position as though the eye were straight or in it's deviated position?
    No, it's how can I make more with less time spent. How can I make sure they don't go to the place down the street.
    Not will this be beneficial to the patient, but can I sell it... and educated (sell) the patient in to thinking he needs or must have it.

    Chip
    Last edited by chip anderson; 02-13-2011 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Wanted to...

  18. #18
    Ophthalmic Optician Wes's Avatar
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    Here's a couple words that have been completely corrupted, and not used properly for a long time: PROFESSION, and its cousin, the PROFESSIONAL

    Doctor, dentist, lawyer. Those are professions in the true sense of the word. Those Professions have stiff entry requirements to be met prior to earning the title. A person aspiring to a profession must invest much time and money in the education required to be a professional.

    Opticianry could not protect itself from mass retailers, because there are no requirements to claim the non-protected title in the majority of places. At best, the maximum requirements to be met are a 2 year degree, passage of relatively easy exams and a state license. 2 year degrees are not professional degrees. They are skilled trade degrees. Do we really believe this is what constitutes a "professional"?

    I don't mean to imply that there are not highly qualified opticians out there, or that they do not behave in a "professional" manner.
    I do think, though that since the requirements to call oneself an optician in most places are the same as that of fry cook, ditch digger, and crack dealer, I have a difficult time thinking of this as a profession. This is also the reason most opticians really have to prove themselves to get any respect from the eyecare professionals, and the reason most corporate management sees the optician as a salesman or tradesman (at best).

    Want to fix it? Require education and licensure, because as long as everyone who wants to pick up a screwdriver and call themselves an optician can, the title doesn't mean anything.
    Wes
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, OO, LDO, ABOM, NCLE-AC

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    Doctor, Lawyer, dentist used to be professionals, now they are in sales. Just watch thier commercials, call them on the phone and listen to the sales pitches while you are on hold. Of course opticians used to be concidered low lifes when they advertised too. License, education, now just gives one what Jerry Feldman used to call a license to steal. If one could go to a professional now and feel that everything done or recieved was for the patient, client, or customer's benefit alone, they would still be professional. But one can no longer be assured that what is being done is for more than the professional's bottom line, or to protect him from another group of professionals, the lawyers.
    Having said all this some of the most honorable men I have been priviledged to encounter have been members of each of the groups named. Unfortunately some of the least honorable have also and I fear that the changes occuring are leading to much more of less than honorable group.

    Chip

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Doctor, Lawyer, dentist used to be professionals, now they are in sales. Just watch thier commercials, call them on the phone and listen to the sales pitches while you are on hold. Of course opticians used to be concidered low lifes when they advertised too. License, education, now just gives one what Jerry Feldman used to call a license to steal. If one could go to a professional now and feel that everything done or recieved was for the patient, client, or customer's benefit alone, they would still be professional. But one can no longer be assured that what is being done is for more than the professional's bottom line, or to protect him from another group of professionals, the lawyers.
    Having said all this some of the most honorable men I have been priviledged to encounter have been members of each of the groups named. Unfortunately some
    of the least honorable have also and I fear that the changes occuring are leading to
    much more of less than honorable group.

    Chip

    Well said Chip

  21. #21
    Ophthalmic Optician Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    It didn't used to be a business, but a profession. But now even the professions especially ophthalmology have become sales and businesses. Really very sad.
    I for one would never object to education if it actually were still professional education. Now it seems to be 98% sales pitch on the latest and greatest. One often doesn't get to know the nuts and bolts of the latest and greatest because" :"It's proprietary" or incomprehensable without a PHD in physics, or polymer chemistry.
    Heard anyone describe the various shapes of noses? Ears? Devises to fit same in spectacles? The dozens of common hinge design? Frame Repair? Frame adjustment? Coloring frames? Modifying temple lengths, bridge widths? I'd consider paying to spend a couple weeks with you on these things.
    Even whether prism should be measured at a Pupilary position as though the eye were straight or in it's deviated position? As the prism will deviate the light .28 mm per diopter in the average pt, I specify with a compensated correction.
    No, it's how can I make more with less time spent. How can I make sure they don't go to the place down the street.
    Not will this be beneficial to the patient, but can I sell it... and educated (sell) the patient in to thinking he needs or must have it.

    Chip
    Didn't get to see the edit.

    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Doctor, Lawyer, dentist used to be professionals, now they are in sales. Just watch thier commercials, call them on the phone and listen to the sales pitches while you are on hold. Of course opticians used to be concidered low lifes when they advertised too. License, education, now just gives one what Jerry Feldman used to call a license to steal. If one could go to a professional now and feel that everything done or recieved was for the patient, client, or customer's benefit alone, they would still be professional. But one can no longer be assured that what is being done is for more than the professional's bottom line, or to protect him from another group of professionals, the lawyers.
    Having said all this some of the most honorable men I have been priviledged to encounter have been members of each of the groups named. Unfortunately some of the least honorable have also and I fear that the changes occuring are leading to much more of less than honorable group.

    Chip
    Agreed, and good points, but they don't address the decline of the Opticianry field or how to correct it. We cannot prevent the decline; it has already happened. Since the decline of opticianry, there are too few "Chip Andersons" in the world to apprentice the future. Formal education is the only way left to us. Surely you can get behind that?
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, OO, LDO, ABOM, NCLE-AC

  22. #22
    Just An Optician jediron1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    Let me say this again, and read carefully so it will be clear. I was not attacking you personally. I am told by many corporates that they have better success (in their mind) with hiring managers with the right background and credentials to manage for them. They have established criteria for managers regarding education and training. They do not see most Opticians (note I do not say you, I do not know you) as having the right backgrounds. Does that indicate that we may need additional education and training? It does to me! Most 2-year degrees are technical degrees and not designed to train managers, but Opticians. I was also simply telling you that the very thing you were complaining about is the norm in any large organization. They hold the position, and you do not. Go compete with them! But before your try, I would know that managers should communicate
    clearly. You did not post your experience nor your education in your initial response
    to the OP, and I (again, so you will understand) suggest you take that experience
    and education and go compete with them. The paper trails you are so concerned about will be the same across larger organizations. I hope this is clear.

    Wes, you are correct. It does not matter to the corporates (generally speaking that is.....there are some who require solid optical backgrounds) if these folks are Opticians. They want someone who has the education and background in management, and consider us to be no more than glorified salespeople. We can do better, if we compete with them if we have the courage to do more than get on
    here and gripe. Unfortunately when someone like me, who supports Opticians to the maximum level, states what is widely known to most, someone like eye2 takes offense. It is not meant to be offensive, but it is what it is. We must educate ourselves more and get the background to do something more than take a PD and measure a seg height.


    I completely understand your point. The point I was making is I know for a fact that I do have the credentials and I know of several others and we have all applied for higher positions only to be turned down for some one from Toilet world or Diaper world. And it was with your biggest boxes. Now maybe your smaller chains are looking for optical experience in management but your bigger chains would rather hire from with out then hire a qualified Optician with many years in optical with management experience. :hammer:

  23. #23
    Ophthalmic Optician Wes's Avatar
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    Businesses tend to try to hire the most qualified match for the position. Perhaps the folks from Toilet and Diaper World were a better fit and had the desired credentials...

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