What would you do?

[adicreed]

Hey guys and gals, So I mainly just see whats going on around here, and never really post anything. Recently had an interaction with a patient and wanted to find out what you all would do. Just to set the scene, I have been licensed for about 2 years and have been an optician for 6 years roughly. I work in a small private ophthalmologist office with a optical shop.

So back in 2008 I had a patient come in with an outside prescription, and wanted to use his VSP. He was wearing progressive lenses and wanted a new pair of frames and progressives. So I made the prescription, and he was happy with the transaction. He was one of those patients that you clicked with. He left feeling happy, and I was happy to help this gentleman.

He returned in October of 2010 to get new lenses put in his frame that he purchased here. He had a prescription from his doctor that was just about a year old. So I told him that the prescription may not be your current prescription, but if you understand this we'll continue with the order. He was also using VSP again. For one reason or another he wanted to get single vision lenses this time instead of the progressive. For the life of me I can't remember why he wanted single vision, but he did. So I make the glasses and low and behold the prescription wasn't strong enough, so I told him to go back to his doctor get an updated prescription and we'll get these remade under a doctor's prescription change.

Fast forward to January and he comes back with his updated prescription, and I happily take the prescription, get the lenses remade and call him to let him know his lenses are ready. So he comes back in, puts the glasses on, looks around then grabs the reading test card. I say to him that he won't be able to read because these are single vision distance lenses only. He asks me why they were single vision, and I tell him that because the original order was single vision I assumed that's what you wanted on the remake. He fumbles around with his words and says that the prescription has a reading prescription on there too, and I tell him that he is correct in that, but that doesn't necessarily mean it gets put into the lenses. I said that if you wanted the progressive again you needed to tell me, but because this was done under VSP, they only allow one remake. I quoted him how much the progressive would be out of pocket and he declined to do so. So he left a little upset but not so much to where I should be concerned.....I was wrong

The next day we get a voicemail on our answering service saying that he was extremely upset with the service, that I made the prescription wrong, and that he would escalate this to the state board if he has too. I take things like this very personal and got quite frustrated with this guy. So I share the message with my office manager, and she agrees that I wasn't in the wrong, and calls the guy. He says he doesn't want to step another foot in this office and I didn't have any concern for his well being. And that I being the professional should have known to ask for a progressive and he shouldn't have to say he wanted a progressive. My office manager asks him to fax us his prescription so we can verify everything.


So the next day we get the prescription and a letter. The prescription does have a reading portion on it, as I already knew, but the doctor had no recommendations marked in the recommendations, so I felt a little validated in not HAVING to have made the prescription as a progressive. The letter again stated that he was extremely upset and that we were bias to him and had no concern for his well being. At this point I am FUMING, for someone to accuse me of being a racist and treat him in any manner because of his race is absolutely absurd. So I call around to find out what my options were with VSP and the lab. I came to two possible solutions for the man, one we can reverse the VSP authorization and he could take his business elsewhere, or two refund him his money, he keep the lenses and take his business elsewhere. At this point, we (the company) did not want to do anymore business with this person, and didn't want to give him an option of somehow making progressive lenses for him. Even though he made it quite clear he didn't want anything to do with us anymore anyways.

So what would you have done? Was I wrong? Should I have been upset? Let's hear those opinions

We ended up refunding him his money and signing something that he wouldn't pursue legal action against us.

[chip anderson]

You wimped out. Should have remade the lenses and charged enough addittional for the bifocals so that you at least came out OK.

[hipoptical]

Sorry to say this, but I think you were wrong. You should never assume, you should always ask questions. What's done is done, you can't change that. Your office should take responsibility here. Ask your lab to help you out. There are a lot of options in progressive lenses that you could ask your lab to cut you a break on. I've run labs before and would gladly help my customers who ask me to help them correct a mistake. I have my own business now, not even a VSP lab, and I would help you out. People have enough concerns in life and things like this should never escalate to this level. The guy in question is clearly wrong, but it's because he's clueless with a chip on his shoulder. Consider him a weaker person that needs help. (People who jump straight to the race card are to be pitied. They are shallow and ignorant.) You are wrong simply because you are the professional, the stronger one but you made assumptions. If you take my advice you may still lose a patient, but you won't lose your professionalism. (You can always blame VSP when you call him back, then explain that you and your lab found a "work-around" to help him out.)

[adicreed]

He didn't want to pay for an upgrade, he wanted a progressive for what he paid for, which was for a single vision lens. I agree that I was wrong in assuming, but I think he was wrong in assuming as well. I think the reason I assumed was because we had a game plan in October that he would go and get an updated prescription and we would get the lens remade to what he wanted...which at that time was a single vision lens. I guess for me to think he would change is mind was not a thought I had

[adicreed]

I did ask the lab for help and they said they would give us a voucher for any lens we wanted at a later date. But they wouldn't comp us a progressive for this particular situation. Which getting a voucher is better than nothing, but they wouldn't do anything otherwise.

[FVCCHRIS]

Should have remade into progressives, appologized for any lack of proper communication on your part, and documented everything in the patient's chart so that whoever helps him the next time will not "fall" into the same trap the next time. If something similar happens again, then it's time to part company with him. Somebody who goes to those lengths( message, letter, etc.) are potential liabilities you don't need. It doesn't matter that you did everything correctly, someti\mes that isn't enough. :hammer:

[Uncle Fester]

Sorry to say this, but I think you were wrong. You should never assume, you should always ask questions. What's done is done, you can't change that. Your office should take responsibility here. Ask your lab to help you out. There are a lot of options in progressive lenses that you could ask your lab to cut you a break on. I've run labs before and would gladly help my customers who ask me to help them correct a mistake. I have my own business now, not even a VSP lab, and I would help you out. People have enough concerns in life and things like this should never escalate to this level. The guy in question is clearly wrong, but it's because he's clueless with a chip on his shoulder. Consider him a weaker person that needs help. (People who jump straight to the race card are to be pitied. They are shallow and ignorant.) You are wrong simply because you are the professional, the stronger one but you made assumptions. If you take my advice you may still lose a patient, but you won't lose your professionalism. (You can always blame VSP when you call him back, then explain that you and your lab found a "work-around" to help him out.)

All good advice.

As a fairly busy office we'll see this once or twice a year.

I'd have dug in my heels with this bully as soon as he threatened to escalate this to the State Board that it was certainly his right to do so but at this point all further communications must be made in writing and we will proceed accordingly.

Now you need to create a record of all past and further communications. Edit the original post by removing all but the facts.

In the future you may want to leave a note on the original order such as "per pts change to sv" or "per patient change from progressive to FT" to cover your behind.

Don't lose sleep over this. :)

[WFruit]

hmmmm. I don't think I'm going to be as hard as everyone else. If he had come back the next day with the new Rx, that would have been one thing. However, it was months later. I would have said something like "Ok, I'm going to take your new Rx and remake your SINGLE VISION lenses." I don't think your mistake was in assuming what he wanted this time, I think it was in assuming that HE remembered what he wanted last time. Telling him (again) what kind of lenses he'll be getting gives him the chance to say he'd rather have progressives (and pay the extra) and covers you if he says nothing and then complains.

Some people are just like this. Learn from it and don't take it personally. (And find a lab that would have remade the lenses for you in progressives if you needed. We certainly would have worked something out for you, and I think most of the better labs in the country would have done the same.)

[adicreed]

The guy didn't even voice how upset he really was when he left that day...if he had then I would have definitely done something. But it jumped from ok, this guy has excepted the situation to "I'm never stepping foot in this office again, you're a racist, I'm calling the state board, I'm going to sue" He didn't give me a chance to realize how ****** off he was and try and correct the problem. I guess as soon as he said he assumed they were going to be progressives I should've said "oh ok, well let me see what I can do" But knowing that VSP only allows one remake per job, and the likely hood that our lab wasn't going to comp us a lens for this guy. I just did what I did.

[CCGREEN]

Assumptions..........95% of the time assumptions will get you in trouble. Especially when working with the public.

On one hand the public always thinks it is someone else's duty and or job to look out for them and to protect them from themselves but then on the other hand they get offended if you show your concern. They will always be conventionally dumb or conventionally smart, which ever works best for them.

Personally I would of offered to put the multi focal in there for him AT COST. Just to keep the situation from getting out of hand. If that did not work I would of offered to put the multifocals in for him at N/C the reason being that one upset person will tell 20 people how they were mistreated. One happy person MAY tell one other person of their good experience.

Now the tough decision. Hand them their glasses and ask them to go away or take a chance on them again? Remember when someone comes through the door there is NO LAW stating that you HAVE TO sell to them. There is NO LAW stating that YOU, personally, have to wait on them so you may be better off to pass them off to the next person. Now your supervisor may feel different about all those choices and you may have to chose where to work. He who holds the check book has the power. I feel sometimes you have to chalk up a unreasonable person as a expense of doing business weather its a plus minus or just a break even on the books.

Just do what ever you can to give and to protect a your great reputation and the reputation of your place of employment. If you have difficulty making those decisions then pass it to the next level of management......let them be the fireman, remove,yourself and take a deep breath.:cheers:

[cocoisland58]

I say to him that he won't be able to read because these are single vision distance lenses only. He asks me why they were single vision, and I tell him that because the original order was single vision I assumed that's what you wanted on the remake. He fumbles around with his words and says that the prescription has a reading prescription on there too, and I tell him that he is correct in that, but that doesn't necessarily mean it gets put into the lenses. I said that if you wanted the progressive again you needed to tell me .

No you needed to ask. If you see a multifocal Rx you need to make sure the patient understands what that means and if he asks for distance only or near only that he understands the limitations of those lenses. If he still insists on distance only you make a note in the chart stating the patient is aware he will not be able to read with his glasses on. This of course means nothing if you end up with a nutbar but at least your boss sees that you tried. I have found that if you call the VSP lab and tell them what the deal is they will work with you on remakes as it is a private transaction after the first redo. The patient also has to pay the difference in upgrade directly to you, it is not rebilled.

[Uncle Fester]

To try to make this person happy now is a mistake and reinforces their bullying behavior.

You don't want this person back and chances are anyone he's badmouthing your office too knows he's a type A personality (or off his meds) and will not hold it against you.

My stock answer to the "I'm going to sue you" is- "Sue me? Really? Well then you're going to have to go to the back of the line and wait your turn!" In the right tone of voice it can diffuse a persons anger and also convey the fact your not feeling all that threatened by the statement.

[hipoptical]

To try to make this person happy now is a mistake and reinforces their bullying behavior.

You don't want this person back and chances are anyone he's badmouthing your office too knows he's a type A personality (or off his meds) and will not hold it against you.

My stock answer to the "I'm going to sue you" is- "Sue me? Really? Well then you're going to have to go to the back of the line and wait your turn!" In the right tone of voice it can diffuse a persons anger but also convey the fact your not feeling all that threatened by the statement.

:bbg:

[CNG]

I think you should not charge him at all. I dont know about your pricing structure or your redo policy but goodwill goes a long way. Remember there are many more opticals out there and many choices. If you remotely think it was your error do it at nc, if you think you are been taking advantage of let him walk away... If he wants to bark at VSP then I would suggest put your your tail in between your legs and remake it. If he wants to go to your state board by all means refund and let him walk away....

CNG

[NeGlassesGirl27]

While I do agree that maybe the question SHOULD have been asked about making them into progressives and educating WHY it's best to do it, after the situation happened, I honestly don't think there was anything you or anyone in your office could have said or done to make him "happy". If it was where I'm at, I would have brought it up with the OD and she probably would have said to have them remade at 50% charge from the lab and we will eat the rest of it.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I'm sure he's just threats, you did nothing illegal. He probably just didn't drink his prune juice that morning. :bbg: You can't make everyone happy.

[drk]

It's always good to ask: "What do you want us to do?". In this case he apparently wanted progressives for SV price.



Na ga da. Wouldn't be prudent.

If he were being reasonable, I'd say: "Hey, we're sorry they were not right. We'll remake to progressives for only the upcharge (which would really cost us a lot, because it would not cover our materials cost, but it's kind of like splitting the difference).

If he came back with a 'tude, I'd say: "We're sorry you're unhappy. We will ask VSP to reinstate your lens eligibility, so you can seek care elsewhere." He's lost his precious time, and you're out your time and the lab fee for the SV lenses.

That's fair. Take it or leave it.

[NeGlassesGirl27]

It's always good to ask: "What do you want us to do?". In this case he apparently wanted progressives for SV price.

Very good point. I have learned that sometimes you just need to put the ball in their court and say, "Ok sir. What would you like us to do" or "What do you think we need to do to solve this issue for you?" Let them tell you and say, "Certainly. I'll speak with so and so and I'll get back to you as soon as I can with an answer".

[Optixx]

I agree with CCGreen, doing the lenses at cost would have left your operation in a better light, this old poop is probably telling everyone what a lousy place you have (even though that would not be true).

Also, remember, these are patients, not ABOC NCLEC pros, they don't know a progressive from a transition lens. They don't know what they're gaining/giving up in each lens, half the time they don't even know what single vision lens means.

Not that you haven't already earned your optical scout badge on this one, but always cover your butt. Ask, educate and document. That way if the patient insists that what he or she wants then at least you've written it down "Educated patient on differences in visual ability and focal length as patient has requested single vision distance only lenses in lieu of the progressives he has had previously" Boom. Done. Butt Covered. There's been lots of times when I wished I could record the conversation between the patient and me because that old intuition kicked up that "Hey, this person's a crazy mess, and this order is going to be a complete cluster ****."

Your only consolation is that everybody (including his friends - assuming he has any - and his family all know What He Is. :angry:

[kat]

Bummer, certainly he has to bear some of the "mis-understanding" as it took him months to get around to getting his eyes checked, and was willing to use an almost expired Rx, but, "The Customer is Always Right" syndrom will always get us/you in the collective rear. There isn't much you can do now, but to move on and remember, that for everyone of "him" there are 20 great patients out there, so keep your chin up, take a deep breath, and relax, it's the weekend!

[MichaelP]

I haven't read the rest of the thread, so apologies in advance if anyone else said something like this. Also, my usual disclaimer: I don't work for a brick and mortar, I work for an online retailer, so if you think that makes me a big unethical know-nothing that should be ignored, feel free to do so. But here's my thought:

This is taking a page out of Zappos' book, but I would've eaten the cost on the redo. I know and you know what the material cost on that would have been. Further, I would have considered it a marketing expense. Ask yourself, what is the #1 driver of new business for your practice? Word of mouth, right? How happy would this customer have been if you explained what happened, explained further that VSP didn't cover a second redo, but that you were going to do it for free anyway, because he has been a loyal customer. How much more business would this single customer send your way as a result of that transaction? Not just him buying future pairs, but him writing a review of your practice on Yelp, telling friends and family where to go for excellent customer service, etc.

What's better for your business: spend $10k per year on things like this, "WOW"'ing your customers (again, I'm stealing from Zappos by using that word), or $10k on additional radio or tv advertising?

I understand you work for an O.D. and maybe this wasn't a call you could have made on your own. I'm just putting it out there as an idea for everyone.

[adicreed]

Just to give you all an update of what's happening, he still hasn't come in to get his refund. We've decided to let him keep the lenses, and give him his refund back. But he called up here last week sometime and said that he had lost his old pair of glasses, so he couldn't give us the lenses back. That's when we told him just to keep the lenses and we'll refund him the money over the phone, but first he needed to sign an agreement that we have refunded him his money and won't go any further with his claims. We faxed it over to him, but haven't received a phone call or anything. I'm starting to think he may be talking to a lawyer to start a lawsuit or something. But who knows what this guy is doing. Anyways just wanted to give an update.

[chip anderson]

Whenever you give a refund always get the product back! If not the patient may return with a complaint about it. You may be liable. Patient may do things you wouldn't immagine. We used to be fool enough back in the day when we made our own hard lenses, to let the patient keep the old ones when we were changing them for fit, Rx or whatever improvement (no charge change). If pt. lost one, he just wore the old one. He might come in with a hand full and ask you to sort them out.
If nothing else the patient may visit all your compeditors or other clients and show them: "This is how they screwed up my......"
Always practise CYA in every way you can.

Chip

[Uncle Fester]

Just to give you all an update of what's happening, he still hasn't come in to get his refund. We've decided to let him keep the lenses, and give him his refund back. But he called up here last week sometime and said that he had lost his old pair of glasses, so he couldn't give us the lenses back. That's when we told him just to keep the lenses and we'll refund him the money over the phone, but first he needed to sign an agreement that we have refunded him his money and won't go any further with his claims. We faxed it over to him, but haven't received a phone call or anything. I'm starting to think he may be talking to a lawyer to start a lawsuit or something. But who knows what this guy is doing. Anyways just wanted to give an update.

:drop:

[hipoptical]

I don't think you need to fear a lawsuit. It would be small claims and the worst possible thing that would likely happen is that you are told to give him what the PALs and a refund. If he won't pay for an upgrade, he won't likely pay for a lawyer. That leaves small claims as his only option, and that's not worth the trouble- especially since you've already given him options. (I've gone through something similar with a company I worked for in the past.)