Well, here's a new one....

[optilady1]

You know the problem with doing business with any place that would be unethical to benefit you means you cannot do any other business with them. For example if I get my car inspected and they pass it and I know that it should take more then 5 minutes and my car should not have passed any way. That means I can never bring my car back there for a repair. The mechanic has proven that he is willing and able to lie and forge. If an optician is willing to forge insurance documents and flex accounts what else would they be willing to do to make money? Telling you things are not covered under warranty? Charging you to release your RX? You cannot have it both ways. A person willing to lie and cheat your insurance company would be willing to cheat you too. Scratch a liar and find a thief as the old saying goes.

+1

[varmint]

I kno

[NeGlassesGirl27]

You know the problem with doing business with any place that would be unethical to benefit you means you cannot do any other business with them. For example if I get my car inspected and they pass it and I know that it should take more then 5 minutes and my car should not have passed any way. That means I can never bring my car back there for a repair. The mechanic has proven that he is willing and able to lie and forge. If an optician is willing to forge insurance documents and flex accounts what else would they be willing to do to make money? Telling you things are not covered under warranty? Charging you to release your RX? You cannot have it both ways. A person willing to lie and cheat your insurance company would be willing to cheat you too. Scratch a liar and find a thief as the old saying goes.

Agreed. I also think that is opticals wouldn't forge and change medical documentations..this wouldn't happen in the 1st place.

[kat]

If I hear from one more patient "Can't you do better with the price?" I just might SCREAM!!!!! It's amazing the gall that people have and feel entitled to use. I don't ever go into a place and ask if they can change their prices "just for me". Give everyone a great product at a fair price, that's how I try to work.

[uncut]

Doncha know.... an independent is supposed to, not only discount, but feed, clothe, and shelter everyone!

My standard answer to those people, Kat, is "I do not price discriminate!"

A sales rep, with many years on the road, dealt with people bugging him for free/cheap/ frames, used to open his wallet when faced with such people and say..."How much do you need?"

[jediron1]

If I hear from one more patient "Can't you do better with the price?" I just might SCREAM!!!!! It's amazing the gall that people have and feel entitled to use. I don't ever go into a place and ask if they can change their prices "just for me". Give everyone a great product at a fair price, that's how I try to work.

I had a patient come in and wanted me to bill all three of her insurance companies and one was Medicaid. I said I can bill one thru our computer system I can't do two. And medlcaid we don't take. They said if I go down the street to Jo smo they will do and I said maybe you should go there, and they walked out.

[jediron1]

Agreed. I also think that is opticals wouldn't forge and change medical documentations..this wouldn't happen in the 1st place.

I have had a lot of people try this one. They will come in wanting to order glasses with there insurance and after couple or three weeks return the glasses and then call insurance and say they want there money because they paid in full. I've learned to call insurance places and inform them they have returned there glasses and don't pay them a cent. Wow I didn't know so many people were dishonest or that they were owed something. I was never given anything. My dad said you want it you have to earn it.

[NCspecs]

You know the problem with doing business with any place that would be unethical to benefit you means you cannot do any other business with them. For example if I get my car inspected and they pass it and I know that it should take more then 5 minutes and my car should not have passed any way. That means I can never bring my car back there for a repair. The mechanic has proven that he is willing and able to lie and forge. If an optician is willing to forge insurance documents and flex accounts what else would they be willing to do to make money? Telling you things are not covered under warranty? Charging you to release your RX? You cannot have it both ways. A person willing to lie and cheat your insurance company would be willing to cheat you too. Scratch a liar and find a thief as the old saying goes.

Big ole +1. I sometimes wonder whether people have stepped upon and squished their Jiminy Cricket.

[skt]

or.....(just happened)..new patient...no ID of any kind, no insurance cards..."here I have an ID number, you can just look it up"....and we are supposed to guess which out of how many insurance companies to look him up?! Geesh!
and he was so mad, he stormed out and left the front door open(oh boy...he really got us there) lol

[Jubilee]

My frustration experience was with a kid (Ok, he was in his 20's) who wanted to use his flexcare. He did call on the 30th. However, the doctor was not going to be back in the office till the 3rd, and his contact lens prescription was expired by 3 months.
"I want you to release it to me so I can order contacts through 1-800 contacts"

Sorry I can not do that, you're contact lens rx has been expired for quite some time, and we need to see you to verify the health of your eye, and the accuracy of the script.

"But I have $400 I have to use from my flexcare! I need those contacts!!"

(I had other patients in the office, and so I needed to buy a bit of time.) Tell you what, I will call the doctor and see if we can figure something out.

(After I finish up with the patients in the office, and a quick call to the doctor to make sure he was ok with what I was going to offer...)

"Are you going to release my script?"

No, I can not release your script. What I can offer you is the ability to purchase a year's supply of contacts, we can process it and date it for today, however I will hold onto them till you see the doctor. He is willing to shorten his lunch hour, or come in early next week to get you in.

"But I need contacts today!"

Sorry, but earlier you told me you were using 1-800. They can not deliver your contacts to you TODAY. It will take a few days. If you are currently out, I would be willing to supply you with a pair at n/c to hold you over till we see you next week.

"That is unacceptable. Just give me the freaking rx or will I have to see another doctor. I do not want to change doctors but if you are going to cost me hundreds by being unwilling to work with me, I will have to."

We are trying to work with you. I am allowing you to use your benefit by purchasing the contacts today. Our pricing is on par with 1-800 so you aren't losing money in that deal. Your flex won't go to waste, and I am offering you a pair to hold you over till exam, something 1-800 will not do. We can see you as early as next week, even during non standard hours to get you in.

"Sorry, I thought you were willing to work with me. I just can't believe you are willing to lose a patient over this."

The issue is that if you have some latent infection, eye disease, or other issue, the doctor would be held liable and could lose his license. Thus effectively losing ALL of his patients. Someone with your history of both lens abuse, and cancer, should certainly appreciate the fact we are trying to look after your eye health.

"That's just silly. No one would lose their license due to something like this. I am just floored you won't give me what I want."

I am sorry that you can't see that we are trying to work with you. If you would like your information forwarded to another provider, just supply us with their name and address. We would be happy to do so.

-----------------------------------------

The most frustrating part of this.. is that I had to have similar conversations 4 times that day..

[rdcoach5]

Make you?

What is he going to do? Put you in a headlock and make you say uncle? Wierd. I had a guy who told me that he was always given a 20% discount AFTER his previous optician applied his VSP benefits. I straight out told him, "Not going to do it and I have a hard time believing you." He was miffed at first but bought glasses from me anyway and I never heard a peep from him about the price or anything else. Seriously! Do you think that because I'm under 30 and a woman that I am going to dither around like trapped mouse when you start being a blowhard? Try harder buddy! *rolls eyes*

According to your contract with VSP, you are not allowed to give any further discount. And, why would you?

[Mizikal]

Giving a discount always comes back to hurt you in the long run anyway.They will want it again next year or they tell friends and family member that you gave them one. IF you did it for their buddy why wouldn't you do it for them? When people ask me about discounts I always tell them Wal-mart gives a discount to everybody.

[optilady1]

My frustration experience was with a kid (Ok, he was in his 20's) who wanted to use his flexcare. He did call on the 30th. However, the doctor was not going to be back in the office till the 3rd, and his contact lens prescription was expired by 3 months.
"I want you to release it to me so I can order contacts through 1-800 contacts"

Sorry I can not do that, you're contact lens rx has been expired for quite some time, and we need to see you to verify the health of your eye, and the accuracy of the script.

"But I have $400 I have to use from my flexcare! I need those contacts!!"

(I had other patients in the office, and so I needed to buy a bit of time.) Tell you what, I will call the doctor and see if we can figure something out.

(After I finish up with the patients in the office, and a quick call to the doctor to make sure he was ok with what I was going to offer...)

"Are you going to release my script?"

No, I can not release your script. What I can offer you is the ability to purchase a year's supply of contacts, we can process it and date it for today, however I will hold onto them till you see the doctor. He is willing to shorten his lunch hour, or come in early next week to get you in.

"But I need contacts today!"

Sorry, but earlier you told me you were using 1-800. They can not deliver your contacts to you TODAY. It will take a few days. If you are currently out, I would be willing to supply you with a pair at n/c to hold you over till we see you next week.

"That is unacceptable. Just give me the freaking rx or will I have to see another doctor. I do not want to change doctors but if you are going to cost me hundreds by being unwilling to work with me, I will have to."

We are trying to work with you. I am allowing you to use your benefit by purchasing the contacts today. Our pricing is on par with 1-800 so you aren't losing money in that deal. Your flex won't go to waste, and I am offering you a pair to hold you over till exam, something 1-800 will not do. We can see you as early as next week, even during non standard hours to get you in.

"Sorry, I thought you were willing to work with me. I just can't believe you are willing to lose a patient over this."

The issue is that if you have some latent infection, eye disease, or other issue, the doctor would be held liable and could lose his license. Thus effectively losing ALL of his patients. Someone with your history of both lens abuse, and cancer, should certainly appreciate the fact we are trying to look after your eye health.

"That's just silly. No one would lose their license due to something like this. I am just floored you won't give me what I want."

I am sorry that you can't see that we are trying to work with you. If you would like your information forwarded to another provider, just supply us with their name and address. We would be happy to do so.

-----------------------------------------

The most frustrating part of this.. is that I had to have similar conversations 4 times that day..

I stand by my assessment, that 80% of contact lens wearers are nuts from some weird chemicals leaching from over wearing their contacts and seaping into their brains.

[NeGlassesGirl27]

I love when patients cry wolf. "If you don't give me what I want..I'll go somewhere else." You know, we bend over backwards and try to HELP THEM OUT but it's NEVER good enough. Oh please no. Don't threaten us with the "I'll go somewhere else" line..like I've never heard that before! I refuse to help a patient when it's out of boundaries. Sorry, I am not going to risk my job and certification and Dr's license and practice because you want something completely illegal or unreasonable! GAHHHH :angry:

[NCspecs]

According to your contract with VSP, you are not allowed to give any further discount. And, why would you?

Exactly. Most people don't understand that the INS doesn't reimburse the amount covered by the plan but I don't really ever go there. If someone is unclear on the concept of "goods and services are rended to the consumer for monetary compensation and the compensation for said services (or materials) must cover the cost of running a business efficently" then I'm willing to go out on a limb and assume there is A LOT in life they "don't get". Dang it Jim, I'm an Optician not an Economics or Ethics professor! ;)

[NeGlassesGirl27]

I had a patient yell at me because their insurance plan A) only covers frames every 24 months and they aren't eligible and B) their insurance only covers one pair of glasses, not multiple pairs. (This is where the 20% off additional pairs comes into play) *Rolls Eyes*

[Happylady]

I can't really blame people for asking for the best price on non insurance glasses. People are so used to everything being on sale that if they are buying something for full price they think something is wrong. It doesn't help that chains are always running "sales" on glasses.

I can't stand it when people have no idea what their insurance is. I had a guy in yesterday that knew the appointment was probably going to be medical (he had an ulcer on his eye) but had no idea what his medical insurance was and didn't have a card. We had his VSP information but not his medical.

[NeGlassesGirl27]

I can't stand it when people have no idea what their insurance is. I had a guy in yesterday that knew the appointment was probably going to be medical (he had an ulcer on his eye) but had no idea what his medical insurance was and didn't have a card. We had his VSP information but not his medical.

The previous office I worked at would ALWAYS as when the patient checked in, "Could I please take a copy of your major medical insurance card to have on file in case there's ever an eye emergency?" Then you already have it. It's usually followed by, "But I have VSP (Or whatever insurance)" Then you explain to them that VSP is routine eye exam, glasses and contact lens coverage but we need a medical insurance card blah blah blah. It saves a lot of time.

[ThatOneGuy]

see below

[ThatOneGuy]

or.....(just happened)..new patient...no ID of any kind, no insurance cards..."here I have an ID number, you can just look it up"....and we are supposed to guess which out of how many insurance companies to look him up?! Geesh!
and he was so mad, he stormed out and left the front door open(oh boy...he really got us there) lol

you have to be careful with patients like that, because I find those are the ones who are casing your place to see if you carry high end product. They or a friend will show up later and distract you while they or another friend is taking advantage of the five finger special you're running.

[AngeHamm]

I love when patients cry wolf. "If you don't give me what I want..I'll go somewhere else."

Please go. Fine by me. I'm booking exams 4-6 weeks out right now and I don't need a-hole patients. I neither want nor need your negative attitude in my office or in my life.

I can't really blame people for asking for the best price on non insurance glasses. People are so used to everything being on sale that if they are buying something for full price they think something is wrong. It doesn't help that chains are always running "sales" on glasses.

Even so, my prices are my prices. You don't argue costs with your pharmacist; don't argue with me.

I have some discounts I can do for repeat customers, package frames and multiple pairs, but our (slightly higher) prices pay for the following:

• My office is a lot nicer than Wal-Mart and Costco.
• My staff is a lot more knowledgeable than Four Eyes.
• My doctors perform a much more thorough exam than big box docs do.
• My product is far better than Lenscrafters.

Period. You want cheaper glasses? Go somewhere else and get yourself some cheap glasses. You'll learn soon that "cheap" means more than just "inexpensive."

[NeGlassesGirl27]

Please go. Fine by me. I'm booking exams 4-6 weeks out right now and I don't need a-hole patients. I neither want nor need your negative attitude in my office or in my life.

Fine! I'll go somewhere else!! :bbg:

It's funny how in the Optical market, all the patients feel they are entitled to everything for free. Pretty sure if I gave 1/2 of the stuff away that patients ask for..I wouldn't have a job!! :finger:

[skt]

dead on Ange!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HarryChiling]

I used to love the patients that asked if that was the best I can do. I am a wheeler dealer myself and being a hagler means I am often confronted with the phrase a bigger purchase and I can work with you. When they ask for a better break, you tell them I can get you the lenses for $xx and the frames for $yy if you pick up the second pair of suns, or we can do a computer pair. You can also say that if they purchase the first pair at your price you'll give them the second pair for xx% off. These patients often just want to feel like they got something for nothing.

The patient that is a CL wearer with an expired Rx, I have billed for those before the end of the year and held the lenses until they came back in for a new exam. The caveat I get to no 1 bill them the retail cost of the lenses, and the services they have to pay for on the date of service. We had a policy where we would exchange old Rx boxes with patients so I would chalk it up under that policy. On top of that I would charge them full nut for the exam and if they have insurance they would have ot submit it for reimbursement. Once in a while someone would complain to which the response would be your right let's just void the whole transaction for the contacts and exam if it's too complicated.

Another thing we would do is offer them a pair of eyewear to cover their flex spending amount and would tell them that we have a 20% restocking fee if they cancel their order before it's complete and hte remainder would be a credit to their account, then wink wink nudge nudge I would say call me about tommorow afternoon if you don't want the glasses. Then I would wait until I ordered the glasses.

I would never ever back date but anything else is fair game. Also it's a good idea to have the patient contact their employer about a grace period the IRS extended 2.5 month grace period that employers can offer beyond the end of the FSA period. Also at the end of the year the employer keeps the remaining funds in the flex accounts so it is to the employers benefit not to extend the grace period but some do and just don't advertise it.
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p969...link1000204189

[MikeAurelius]

Get a set of loaded dice and offer to roll for the best price, double or nothing.