Is It A Southern Thing?

**Cindy Hamlin** · 04-03-2002, 10:45 PM

Jackie L said:
Shortly after I moved to Virginia Beach, my husband and I went out dancing. There was a young man (26 or so) that wore a shirt that stated:

If you do not like my confederate flag, you can kiss my rebel ***. (rhymes with bass)

If I were 20 years younger, on a bet, I would have set his shirt on fire. What an eye opener for this snow bird.

I had a fellow come once for road service on my car and he had a rebel flag sticker on his towtruck that said:

"Better Dead Than A Yankee!"

Needless to say I was on the side of the road alone with him and made sure I spiced my conversation with a lot of Y'alls!

**Cindy Hamlin** · 04-03-2002, 10:54 PM

stephanie said:
Hey Cindy you can talk to my husband. He is a serious history buff. He knows everything about anything pertaining to any of the wars. Whenever I ask him how did you know that he always says common knowledge Steph I thought everyone knew that. I on the other hand the only thing historical that intrigues me is the Holocaust. I took a class in High school and was totally amazed how that actually happened. I could read everything on it for hours. Pete: yea I was laughing at your post because I turn the lights awwwwn, do you want a cup of coooffee, or a glass of wooter. My g-ma is from Pittsburg so I am used to hearing her talk of warshing the clothes and she says yuns too. A couple expressions here I don't think I will ever get used to " I might could???" and "it hasn't came in yet???" of course the first time I heard a woman say I dropped my eye last night I freaked and said WHAT??? and of course she said I dropped my eye last night just like the doc told me to. Of course youse guys know what I was thinkin' right??? I have my expressions too... the doc I used to work with used to like when I said to contact lens pts "how are you making out with your contacts" she said it sounded like they were kissing!!! LOL!!! Oh yea Pete and orange coke. Every soda is coke even pepsi is coke. I went to a friend's house once and she said do you want a coke and brought me a Dr. Pepper. LOL!!! I am still laughiing about the unsweetened tea. I never thought of it that way Chip. Back home you never had to ask for it without sugar because it never had it!!! LOL!!

Steph

Steph,
Some of the colorful quotes I became accustomed to here are:

"A couple three" as in "Can you hand me a couple three of those?" (where I grew up if you said a couple I would have gotten two. I went to the bakery and asked for a couple donuts and she said how many? I said 2!)

"Poke" as in "Would you like that in a poke?" (bag)

"Pop" as in "Would you like some pop?" (soda)

"Crick" as in "I went fishing at the crick!" (creek)

Now before anyone gets upset because I am making fun of the south let me now tell you of the colorful expressions I learned growing up in Baltimore, Maryland.

Machine (car)
Zink (sink)
Hun (short for honey)
Wudder (as Steph mentioned this is water)

And the thing that makes me insane....no matter how many syllables your name may have they shorten it to one. Unfortunately, you see, I did this to StephANIE! So Darris, you would be Dar, Judy-Jud, Laurie-Lor, Jackie (Jac), etc.....

**Di822** · 04-04-2002, 01:16 AM

Ya'll are so smart. I am really amazed at your wisdom!

Now, tell me if I'm wrong. You are saying that the South LOST the war? Well, bless my grits! That's not what Paw learned me!
I'm fixin to find me some of them books so I can learn what ya'll have. Law me!

Sincerely,
Scarlett from Jawja transplanted by the hair of the head to Louisiana
PS...Remember what GRITS stands for.....Girls Raised in the South

**Tim Hunter** · 04-04-2002, 01:42 AM

Pete Hanlin said:
(after all, if we hadn't been a unified country, we couldn't have bailed Europe out of trouble twice in the twentieth century... but that's another argument).
:D

History is such an interesting thing and oh so dangerous.

I think it was Michael Caine (the English actor) who moved his family back to the UK from USA because his daughter was being taught that WW2 started in 1941, when all of us in Europe know it started in 1939.

There was also a joke around when Ronald Reagan was President along the lines of Mr Reagan recognising that America had come late into both previous World wars was determined to be early into the next. Only funny if you're European I think.

"The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there"

**Pete Hanlin** · 04-04-2002, 10:32 AM

History is such an interesting thing and oh so dangerous.
I just wanted to see if any of the Brits had wandered on to this thread... I figured that would get some reaction. :D

Yes, I think Americans forget that- while we may have made contributions to the war effort in the two world wars, the wars were fought on your soil, your buildings were blown up, and we were merely supporting cast. It was pointed out to me by a Brit who had seen the recent "Pearl Harbor" movie that there is a line halfway through the movie ("I think WWII just started") that pretty much sums up American myopia concerning the war...

I also think, however, that "Yanks" do not get some of the credit we deserve for lending helpful, if late, assistance in both wars. We may have been "overpaid, oversexed, and over here-" but the "over here" part was undeniably crucial!

Physically the south did [fired the first shot of the Civil War], figuratively by virtue of representation in the governement the North did.
Uh-huh... Well, I'll just have to be an ignorant Yankee on that mark. The question was whether the Constitution (which the Southern states ascribed to) allowed states to withdraw from the Union. The South obviously decided it did and was willing to commit to agression to bring that end about.

There is no such thing as a "Northern" perspective only a liberal one. It makes for good history if you word it just right and sometimes you can even make an "issue" out of it for political gain.
Oh, I know you aren't labelling me a liberal simply because I have differing opinions on the nature of the Civil War. Why, that would be intolerant of you, Darris! (Oh my God, that sounded kinda liberal to me... what's happening to me??? I have to stay away from Steve, he's turning me into a -gasp- moderate!) Of course there is a "Northern" and "Southern" perspective on the war.

Now, tell me if I'm wrong. You are saying that the South LOST the war? Well, bless my grits! That's not what Paw learned me!
Uh-oh... I have a sister-in-law (from Georgia, and a proud Southern Belle) who began a conversation with me that began much like this. Just to save time, I'll concede right now. The South obviously won the war and...
:)

Now before anyone gets upset because I am making fun of the south let me now tell you of the colorful expressions I learned growing up in Baltimore, Maryland.
My dad was born in Baltimore, and that's where Southerners usually assume I'm from when they hear me talk (as if I have any kind of accent at all... Harrisburg, Pa, is only about 1.5 hours North of there, anyway). Did you guys use the word "davenport" for a sofa? No one down here has ever heard that word! Oh, don't forget people up North that pronounce the top of your house as "ruf!" And why don't the grocery stores carry potato rolls or beer pretzels down here???

**Tim Hunter** · 04-04-2002, 10:47 AM

Pete Hanlin said:
I also think, however, that "Yanks" do not get some of the credit we deserve for lending helpful, if late, assistance in both wars. We may have been "overpaid, oversexed, and over here-" but the "over here" part was undeniably crucial!

Pete without the good ol'USA's intervention we'd now be speaking German!

Better late than never!:)

**10 Pence Short** · 04-04-2002, 01:20 PM

Hope Hollywood is watching this thread- it's about time someone mentioned that some Europeans were actually involved in the two World Wars (plus many other nations).

Thanks guys all the same, my German is terrible (yeah, I have to keep him in the basement!).

I'm just waiting for Mel Gibson to star in a film of the English Civil War, wearing ridiculous clothing, a daft haircut and a mid atlantic accent, fighting an evil English anti hero (Jeremy Irons, perhaps?). Third time lucky?

**Darris Chambless** · 04-04-2002, 03:16 PM

Mr. Pete,

"Physically the south did [fired the first shot of the Civil War], figuratively by virtue of representation in the governement the North did.
Uh-huh... Well, I'll just have to be an ignorant Yankee on that mark. The question was whether the Constitution (which the Southern states ascribed to) allowed states to withdraw from the Union. The South obviously decided it did and was willing to commit to agression to bring that end about."

Never once have I called you an "ignorant Yankee" nor will I, so quit being goofy :) The South did agree to become part of the Union but it's the things that transpired after that that have been left out of so much of the history books that it's almost lost. Not saying that the South was right or the North was right, but once the reasons for both sides doing what they did come to light you kind of start scratching your head and wondering about alot of things. The things that I've read and listened to people talk about and even PBS specials as well as others give me a very different view of the whole who won and who lost thing.

Both sides got mad at each other, threw a fit, screamed and hollered, killed a bunch of people and then agreed to do what they were suppose to do in the first place (I'm paraphrasing here) Who won the war? The United States of America. Who lost? Those that died in the war, North and South alike.

History is essential for teaching future generations the successes and failures of our ancestors so that we and they can learn from both. History is being rewritten to show failures of some to have been successes. Science can be rewritten and is rewritten on a daily basis which is what is suppose to happen because of new study and continued learning. History is a done deal and cannot change without the help of those writing it and poetic license does sometimes slip into the writing of history ;)

Here's a good, and I mean good example of history distorted brought up by none other than our very own Chad sitting at his desk here in the office. We'll make this a trivia question. Who was Amerigo Vespuccii? Let's get those History caps on folks :)

Darris C.

**Pete Hanlin** · 04-04-2002, 03:31 PM

I'm just waiting for Mel Gibson to star in a film of the English Civil War, wearing ridiculous clothing, a daft haircut and a mid atlantic accent, fighting an evil English anti- hero (Jeremy Irons, perhaps?). Third time lucky?
Well, look what Braveheart did for the Scots! I think one of the best jobs by Hollywood in portraying everyone's involvement in WWII (or at least Normandy) was "The Longest Day." Not saying its perfect, but it shows the interaction between Brits and Yanks pretty well.

Patton, although focused on an American general, did a good job of showing how the Russians were slighted as Allies (although you could argue that they made up for the "slight" by taking over Eastern Europe as a kind of spoils of war).

If you haven't seen it, The Patriot gave an, er, interesting depiction of the Brits in the American Revolutionary War- I'll leave it at that.
;)

**LaurieC** · 04-04-2002, 03:32 PM

Darris Chambless said:
Who won the war? The United States of America. Who lost? Those that died in the war, North and South alike.

We'll make this a trivia question. Who was Amerigo Raspucci? Let's get those History caps on folks :)

Darris C.

I really enjoyed your last post and must say it was one of the most well written ones I've ever seen. Now for the trivia question: Raspucci or do you mean Amerigo VESPUCCI, Italian (Florence) navigator, explorer for whom two continents are named?

**Darris Chambless** · 04-04-2002, 03:40 PM

Hello Laurie,

Yes, I changed it. Chad mumbled so its all his fault. :)

Darris C.

**chip anderson** · 04-04-2002, 07:24 PM

Darris:

If those that died lost, then the South won for sure. The Nawth suffered three times the casualties the South did. But then they had more bodies to sacrifice.

Chip

**Cindy Hamlin** · 04-04-2002, 07:31 PM

Pete Hanlin said:
Now before anyone gets upset because I am making fun of the south let me now tell you of the colorful expressions I learned growing up in Baltimore, Maryland.
My dad was born in Baltimore, and that's where Southerners usually assume I'm from when they hear me talk (as if I have any kind of accent at all... Harrisburg, Pa, is only about 1.5 hours North of there, anyway). Did you guys use the word "davenport" for a sofa? No one down here has ever heard that word! Oh, don't forget people up North that pronounce the top of your house as "ruf!" And why don't the grocery stores carry potato rolls or beer pretzels down here???

Yes, my Grammy called her sofa that! I had forgotten that one. The ruf one I forgot about.

Now you are taking me back to a warm, fuzzy memory (can't you hear Darris retching????)!

Pete, my dad was raised in Highlandtown, I in Dundalk (Dun-dock) and my uncle lived in Essex. Where was your dad from?

**Tim Hunter** · 04-05-2002, 01:44 AM

Pete Hanlin said:
Well, look what Braveheart did for the Scots! I think one of the best jobs by Hollywood in portraying everyone's involvement in WWII (or at least Normandy) was "The Longest Day." Not saying its perfect, but it shows the interaction between Brits and Yanks pretty well.
If you haven't seen it, The Patriot gave an, er, interesting depiction of the Brits in the American Revolutionary War- I'll leave it at that.
;)

Pete yeah "Longest day" is impressive but then you've got "Saving Private Ryan" which barely acknowledges anyone elses involvement in the Normandy landings and don't get me started on that one about the enigma capture, which conveniently ignored the fact that it was the Brits what captured the submarine and the machine.

Mind you to be fair if you watch a plethora of British war movies apparently we won the war single handed!

Braveheart is historical tosh! Entertaining but tosh! (Yorkshire word for nonsense!) The real story is much more interesting and complicated. Did you know the real Braveheart visited the Pope trying to gain support for his cause, was a scottish aristocrat and spoke about four languages. Also the incompetence of the British generals at the battle the Scots won was unbelievable.

History written by the winners!

**Diane** · 04-05-2002, 08:28 AM

Tim Hunter said:

Braveheart is historical tosh! Entertaining but tosh! (Yorkshire word for nonsense!) The real story is much more interesting and complicated. Did you know the real Braveheart visited the Pope trying to gain support for his cause, was a scottish aristocrat and spoke about four languages. Also the incompetence of the British generals at the battle the Scots won was unbelievable.

History written by the winners!

My husband and I traveled to England and Scotland, woooo three years ago, and studied a lot on the hero of Scotland, William Wallace. Great history. Interesting thing, when talking to the people in UK, anything under four hundred years ago, isn't really that long ago. Over here, We only really have young history.

Diane

**Pete Hanlin** · 04-05-2002, 09:39 AM

Braveheart is historical tosh! Entertaining but tosh! (Yorkshire word for nonsense!) The real story is much more interesting and complicated. Did you know the real Braveheart visited the Pope trying to gain support for his cause, was a scottish aristocrat and spoke about four languages. Also the incompetence of the British generals at the battle the Scots won was unbelievable.
I don't know a whole lot about Scottish history, but I've read enough about William Wallace (the real Braveheart) to be impressed for reasons other than the interesting (yet historically inaccurate) blue battle makeup he wears in the film!

As I understand it, one of the battles portrayed in the movie (where they use the spears to defend themselves against charging British horsemen) was actually fought on a bridge. Apparently, the spear idea was used- but at a different battle. According to Gibson (who I believe also directed the movie), the bridge would have been "too expensive" to build as a set, so they basically just changed history to suit Hollywood...

Pete, my dad was raised in Highlandtown, I in Dundalk (Dun-dock) and my uncle lived in Essex. Where was your dad from?
Actually, my dad was from a tiny little town called Oakville. My Grandfather worked for the Pennsylvania Railroad as an engineer. My dad was born during WWII, when Pappap was based in Baltimore (engineers apparently being vital to the war effort or something, he wasn't drafted- but he had to travel a bit). Anyway, dad was born in some hotel in Baltimore which is still there (he slept in a pulled out dresser drawer the first couple of nights).
;)
After the war, it was back to Oakville, Pa. (population about 56), which is just outside Shippensburg (where my mom is from). Both of these towns are about an hour north of Hagerstown, Md, in Southcentral Penna. I was born in Carlisle, Pa, and was raised about 8 miles from the Hershey chocolate factory (and about the same distance from the Three Mile Island nuclear power facility, which gained fame in 1979 when it nearly melted down).
:D

**Eva** · 04-05-2002, 12:25 PM

Hi Guys,
We all know that the Civil war has long been over, so why don't we just remember that we are Americans and stop this bickering.

Hey Yall,
My grandpaw, who wus scotch-Irish, owned a lots of land and wuz doing perdy guud before the yankees come and took it all, back in 1940. They gave him enuff money to buy a little house in Pensacola. I think it was six hunnart dollars they gave him.

Now my great grandma was part Spanish and part indian. She never did like my great grandpaw much but she had to mary him or he would tell that she wuz indian and she wooda had to move to Oklahoma.

My great great ....and so on............................

**Darris Chambless** · 04-05-2002, 02:03 PM

Hello Eva and with all due respect...

"Hi Guys,
We all know that the Civil war has long been over, so why don't we just remember that we are Americans and stop this bickering."

I'm not sure who you think is bickering other than maybe Chip, but he's just cranky anyway ;) I believe that we're all in agreement that first and foremost the question was "Is it just a Southern thing?" Which then branched off into long lost history and how bad it's gotten through the years. So the rest is how shall we say?... "History" :)

If you know some history that may have been lost please share it, but we ain't bickerin'. We uns jest conversatin' and since I'm from the South I joined in ta give the Southern take to the whole thang. Give a big "Howdy Do" from Big D in Texas to all yourn :)

Watch your topknot,

Darris C.

PS, Chip,

Which side lost "more" people is irrelevant. If more northerns died than southerns that just means that more Americans died and that's that. I think there is one thing you're forgetting (heaven forbid) and that is that in many cases families were fighting against their own in this war so were they really Northerners or Southerners? Many were divided moreso by ideology than location which is why people were treated the way they were if they had "sympathies" for one side or the other. During the war those ideologies are what really seperated most.

Take care and try to remember that the war is over and we all won.

Darris C.

**Cindy Hamlin** · 04-05-2002, 08:33 PM

I went last year to the Petersburg National Battlefield (Petersburg, VA). I saw the infamous "Crater". It is apparently where the Confederacy tunnelled under the Northerners camp and placed a land mine which did catastrophic damage to the North forces.

I cannot describe to you the size of the "Crater" it left. It is enormous! I stood there among the monuments for the dead regiments and tried to comprehend the amount of explosives that size crater required! It is enormous.

I am trying to find a site with a picture to post. At that point I realized there must have been enormous animosity to cause that horrific incident!

**carlee105** · 04-03-2004, 01:19 PM

:) Hi To All,

My name is Carolyn and live in Louisiana. I've left a few times but always came back.

I think where you live and your happiness there is different for everybody. If it makes you Happy, you're evidently on the right road.

Like the saying.....

"If you don't know where you're going; ANY road will take you there!"

So... if you're happy, you got there, you just gotta keep it maintained and unpredictably fun.

This is my lst post and just registered, so I really just wanted to introduce myself. I've been doing Optical work, wholesale lab and now for an Eye Doctor here in Monroe.

Home IS where your Heart IS!!!

Sincerely, Carolyn

**hcjilson** · 04-03-2004, 04:02 PM

I am placing these books in chronological order but it will do no harm to read "Killer Angels" first.

Gods and Generals by Jeff Shaara
Killer Angels by Michael Shaara
The Last Full Measure by Jeff Shaara

For further insight into the war's greatest hero (my opinion only) Robert E Lee, read"
Gone for Soldiers by Jeff Shaara
which will give you some idea of the character of this amazing gentleman.It will also tell the story of the Mexican American War, which had US Grant as a junior officer serving under Robt E Lee.

I mention these books because they tell the complete story in a very readable and understandable fashion. Both Shaara's use quotes of conversations not possibly verifieable so the books are considered fiction, however they are historically accurate in every other respect.

The trilogy was started by Michael Shaara with "Killer Angels". He passed away shortly before the movie of that work (Gettysburg) was shot. The publisher asked his son, who was also a historian, to write a prequel and sequel, Hence his two books. All who read them will enjoy it, from either side North or South.

Shellby Foote's work is excellent as well but that has been mentioned.

For Darris- were you aware that Geo A Custer was only one of 2 Union officers cited for bravery at the First Mannasas? The others were too busy running!

hj

**EyeManFla** · 04-07-2004, 02:53 PM

Tim Hunter said:
Pete without the good ol'USA's intervention we'd now be speaking German!

Better late than never!:)

Actually, had two votes changes in the Second Continential Congress, we would have been speaking German anyway.

Well, it took me forwver, but I finally watched the movie version of Gods and Generals...and yes, I loved it.

Of course, I have always believed that there should have always been a movie made on the Irish Brigade,but after the release of "Glory", which was also a wonderful film, there was no chance of that ever happening.

As I stated in and earlier message, yes, the South is more into Civil War history than the North...because that is where all the major engagement, save one, were fought.

On the flip side, however,if you grew up in Boston, Philadelphia, New Your or New Jersey would have a better understanding and knowledge of a war that was fought a century before that one. Why.........because this is where all the major engagements, save one, were fought.

**Pete Hanlin** · 04-07-2004, 05:45 PM

Yeah, as I recall Benjamin Franklin had to argue strenously to keep the Pennsylvania legislature from declaring German the official language in that commonwealth!

As for the Irish brigade, if you visit Gettysburg, the voice box at the "Angle" relays some history about this group (or at least it did some years ago).

Regarding Killer Angels, the movie version (Gettysburg) was, in my opinion, one of the best uses of film ever! Of course, I'm biased- I was lucky enough to visit the set and meet Sam Elliott during the filming (I was working in Gettysburg when it was shot and fixed one of the crew's glasses).

I eagerly purchased the "God's and Generals" DVD and was so disappointed I didn't even finish the movie. It had none of the grandeur of "Gettysburg," IMHO...

**Cindy Hamlin** · 04-07-2004, 08:43 PM

I found this picture of the Crater.

It is covered with grass and monuments now, but the image is shocking. As I was trying to locate the picture I found out it was the largest wartime explosion until Hiroshima. That is phenomenal considering the day and age that it occurred.

The Crater as it appeared in 1865. The Union soldier seated at the end of the tunnel gives an idea of the size of the Crater.