Is arrogance an inherent trait in opticians?

[musicvirtuoso]

I've posted a reply that people should look at. I've copied the post below, but I also inserted a link to the original post.

Dear all,

Can somebody guide me if it is possible to obtain appropriate IPD (Distance) in Bifocal (Flat Top / Curve Top) lenses???

If yes, how to get it???

Your guidance will be very very helpful.

kind regards
Himanshu

While I'm sure I share the sentiment of every one who has posted here in thinking that this kind of question should be reserved for another category in the forum or for this person's lab manager (or any other optician), it troubles me to see how arrogantly we respond those with little or no knowledge of optics (or even to those with some knowledge who err on occasion). I know that I've only just begun to touch the tip of the iceberg when it comes to optics; but even as I learn more, I can't see myself addressing people and conducting myself in such a condescending manner. I understand that there is a level of self-righteousness and feelings of entitlement with the receipt of education and certifications etc., but I think that by us treating other people (other opticians, especially) like this, we are being counterproductive to the ideals that we all gripe about; namely, increasing education within the optics community and promoting a cohesive body of opticianry. I don't want to necessarily create a firestorm, but I do think that the comment should be made since I personally believe that just as we educate our patients in understanding and amicable ways, so too should we do with our colleagues.
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...l=1#post355253

[Judy Canty]

You are, of course, assuming that the poster is an ECP or technician and not a consumer trying to obtain measurements for an online order.

[braheem24]

Doubtful he's a consumer, his info states he's in Bahrain and part of his name is patel. The gulf arab countries are notorious for importing labor from thailand, india, pakistan where cheap wages come first and knowledge comes second. Patels are generally of indian heritage.

It's very likely he's thrown into an unknown situation and forced to swim to feed his family back home.

[wmcdonald]

This board is for EYECARE PROFESSIONALS, as noted on the Optiboard site. If someone cannot perform this basic of all functions, they are not, by any measure, a professional in this field. If he is in fact someone trying really gain knowledge, we really should offer advice. My initial thought was not positive, but it is encumbant upon us to provide assistance where we can.

[musicvirtuoso]

I can understand what you all are saying and I'm not saying that I don't agree with those who refute my comment, I was simply commenting on the fact that I've seen (not just here, but many places in the optical community) where ignorance or misunderstanding is met with hostility and rudeness. Maybe I'm being an idealist (or a touchy feely liberal), but even if I thought that person should know certain things about optics when joining this community, there are certain ways of communicating this without making that person feel violated or stupid (e.g.: politely informing them that the best solution for their problem is basic training or suggesting that they post the question elsewhere). This is only one situation, but I see it all the time - this "who's is bigger" type of mentality. I know what I'm saying is falling on deaf ears and maybe I should reevaluate my own outlook, but it's something I feel strongly about. It wasn't easy for me when I first started in optics and those kind of attitudes made it worse and discouraged me when I was trying to learn.

[wmcdonald]

I can understand what you all are saying and I'm not saying that I don't agree with those who refute my comment, I was simply commenting on the fact that I've seen (not just here, but many places in the optical community) where ignorance or misunderstanding is met with hostility and rudeness. Maybe I'm being an idealist (or a touchy feely liberal), but even if I thought that person should know certain things about optics when joining this community, there are certain ways of communicating this without making that person feel violated or stupid (e.g.: politely informing them that the best solution for their problem is basic training or suggesting that they post the question elsewhere). This is only one situation, but I see it all the time - this "who's is bigger" type of mentality. I know what I'm saying is falling on deaf ears and maybe I should reevaluate my own outlook, but it's something I feel strongly about. It wasn't easy for me when I first started in optics and those kind of attitudes made it worse and discouraged me when I was trying to learn.

Not all all, in fact my ears are wide open. Think about this concept if you will. To use the title Optician is vastly different in nearly every state. In 27 (to include the state of confusion, Washington, DC) requires the extensive qualification of a pulse. In other states (NC, NY, Florida, etc.) there are some real difficult academic and licensure requirements that take years to accomplish. Until we at least have similar requirements to enter this field we will never reach a consensus on this issue. In the original post, my friend Darryl Meister provides some excellent guidance for the original poster. This was probably not the place for the question in the first place. Too many people with too many different views. You obviously view that as negative, but it is a fact. Keep on learning and contributing. I have seen and heard it all, but I continue to strive for the betterment of the profession. You will often become frustrated, as we all do, but if we continue to work, one day we can all be better for the effort. I appreciate your posts.

[uncut]

@musicvirtuoso: You bet it is. Arrogance is a trait that permeates the optical industry. It literally oozes from the pores of all ECPs not unlike an exclusive perfume.

Arrogance also reeks from frame manufacturers who arbitrarily concluded that all frames sizes should have one B dimension, all be rectangle, and only in one size.

Arrogance exudes from the pores of executives in lensmaking companies that launch lenses without technical data, and support consists of glossy "it is better than" info.

Arrogance erupts in the mountains of contact lens manufacturers who think humanity is served with one base curve, all others be damned.

Arrogance flows from Big box retailers hiring inexperienced, cheap labor to fabricate, verify, and dispense a healthcare device.

Arrogance seeps from examiners who spend as little as 10 minutes in with their patients and call it an examination.

Arrogance bubbles up from the provinces in China, the garages on the hillsides of California, and glades of Florida, where online opticals extoll the virtues of their eyewear, that can't be worn without our free assistance.

This is an arrogant post by an arrogant optician.

[musicvirtuoso]

Not all all, in fact my ears are wide open. Think about this concept if you will. To use the title Optician is vastly different in nearly every state. In 27 (to include the state of confusion, Washington, DC) requires the extensive qualification of a pulse. In other states (NC, NY, Florida, etc.) there are some real difficult academic and licensure requirements that take years to accomplish. Until we at least have similar requirements to enter this field we will never reach a consensus on this issue. In the original post, my friend Darryl Meister provides some excellent guidance for the original poster. This was probably not the place for the question in the first place. Too many people with too many different views. You obviously view that as negative, but it is a fact. Keep on learning and contributing. I have seen and heard it all, but I continue to strive for the betterment of the profession. You will often become frustrated, as we all do, but if we continue to work, one day we can all be better for the effort. I appreciate your posts.

[I think I should start by saying that I am on the same page as everyone else in terms of deciding whether or not the original question should have been posed on this forum and even more specifically in the "Ophthalmic Optics" section]


I'm not arguing about the pitfalls of the standardization of optical competency; in fact, I whole-heartedly agree with you on this point. I was really less commenting on the optics field (and any shortcomings it may have) and more drawing the connection between more educated and/or credentialed people within the optics field (and really by extension, any field) and a lack of humility; and not even in the sense of not being proud of one's self (Hell, I'm proud of the things I've accomplished and no one can tell me otherwise), but more the projection of negative energy due to egoism. I mean if you really think about it, how many of us started in this business a complete ignoramus when it came to optics? Very few (especially with the licensing and certification system is now) started working in optics after extensive training and certifications. And being such a diverse person myself, I would have to refute that I see different views as a negative. I always respect and welcome other views, but I still stand by my point in saying that there are ways of showing them without condescending (I guess that's just the politically correct side of me). For instance, your comment was delivered in a very humble way, which I really appreciate (as was Darryl's, which I think is what was needed in that situation). I know there was a separate thread on business topics being in the advanced ABO, but pulling something from that subject: when you are a leader (ie: anyone with all those letters after their name), you are influencing those around you; and the mark of a good leader is one who leads with humility and understanding (God, I sound like preacher or something - but I believe it). :shiner:

[tigerlilly]

Optiboard eats its own young. I've come to see it as a hazing ritual, because once you survive it (if you don't get run off) you can actually get some great answers and support from the very people who were cracking on you in the beginning.

[Uncle Fester]

Is arrogance an inherent trait in opticians?

For an average optician no. To regularly post on Optiboard yes!

And I agree we scare too many lurking apprentices.

[braheem24]

Optiboard eats its own young. I've come to see it as a hazing ritual, because once you survive it (if you don't get run off) you can actually get some great answers and support from the very people who were cracking on you in the beginning.

Very true, I remember my welcome...
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php/22670

[pseudonym]

If the person is working in a lab laying out lenses, he is an optician. Not necessarily an educated or an experienced optician, but he's working in the field. He has asked a question so that he may learn to better do his job. This is not the same as a consumer with a burning question posing as an ECP to get an answer on optiboard. Those people deserve what they get and I enjoy reading those responses as much as anyone.

It's late and I don't have access to a scanner right now, but I'll be scanning chapter 4 of _Understanding Lens Surfacing_ tomorrow. Since Dr. Brooks is in the business of educating professionals, I doubt he'll mind letting Mr. Patel read a preview while he waits for his copy to arrive in the mail.

[pseudonym]

Very true, I remember my welcome...
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php/22670

Chuckle. I sort of remember a scorching sensation when I first posted. Even so, my welcome was not nearly so warm as yours.

[FVCCHRIS]

For an average optician no. To regularly post on Optiboard yes!

And I agree we scare too many lurking apprentices.

Well change that Avater Fester will you, it still startles me!

[eyeguy21]

We may be conceited, aloof, disdainful and then of course we have an over-active self esteem, but we are never, EVER arrogant.

[DragonLensmanWV]

I was gonna answer in this thread, but you all are so far beneath me to respond.:bbg::bbg:

[eyeguy21]

I was gonna answer in this thread, but you all are so far beneath me to respond.:bbg::bbg:

That's funny. In all seriousness though. I don't think it's arrogance as much as you'd think. I just think that after you've been in this business long enough you're self-preservation mode kicks in and you get sort of eccentric or goofy. That sometimes comes across as aloof or arrogant. Oh, plus we definitely think we know it everything.

[Leo Hadley Jr]

Very true, I remember my welcome...
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php/22670

BWAHAHAHA...
Did you ever find those contacts?

[kat]

Who us????? Snarky???? Never.........I know that I got razzed the first time or too that I spoke up.

[Johns]

Very true, I remember my welcome...
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php/22670

First of all, let me say how VERY honored I feel to have been the very first person to reply to your virgin post! I'm glad I didn't waste the opportunity on seriousness! After all, we've got the rest of our lives to be serious...the chance to be snarky only comes around so often.

Secondly, you have to admit that asking for 10,000 contact lenses would have been difficult for anyone to pass on!
:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[DragonLensmanWV]

Yes, 10,000 Maniacs I can see, but 10K contacts?:bbg::cheers::bbg:

[sharpstick777]

Yes, we are arrogant.

[k12311997]

Very true, I remember my welcome...
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php/22670

what the heck did you want those for anyway?

[rbaker]

Arrogence is the typical defence put forward by those who are not too sure of the premise they are trying to prove.

Sarcasm ,on the other hand, is a well developed skill of those who have their ducks in a row. Try to develop a sarcastic attitude and you will not be troubled by all the petty BS that interferes with your serenity as you deal with all the idiots that you encounter on a daily basis.

[tdj]

I started out as a clueless "frame stylist" with idiotic questions.

I think we need to answer questions that are obviously from industry members, no matter how stupid -- but I also think we have an obligation to inform them that they really need to acquire opticianry skills or get out of the business.

However, the quoted post reads 100% consumer to me.