VSP and Costco

[LENNY]

Don't say it's VSP trying to score anything other than a previous client back in order to HELP private practice.

This is interesting!?!?!?
How?

[Fezz]

Don't say it's VSP trying to score anything other than a previous client back in order to HELP private practice.

Are you on VSP's payroll?

[Diopterman]

Don't say it's VSP trying to score anything other than a previous client back in order to HELP private practice.

With HELP like that, who needs enemies?

[Johns]

Big deal if Costco can now log online to file claims. The patient is still willing to pay more to NOT see the private practice doc. Percentage wise, that is low single digits. However, in order to compete at the provider level and even have a shot at these clients, it had to be done.

Hmm...It was a big deal before. Now all of the sudden they can log on and file claims? Sounds like a pretty big deal to me.

Don't say it's VSP trying to score anything other than a previous client back in order to HELP private practice.

Please finish the above sentence. "VSP is trying to HELP private practice...(HOW?)"
They are trying to "help" private practice like Essilor is trying to "help" private practice by competing against them.

Are you on VSP's payroll?

I don't think that it's been lost on anyone that you appear to be commenting from a position of authority on the matter. (I have seen no "IMO", so I assume you know this info from sources we are not privy to.)

So, tell us more about how VSP is out to "help" private practice...

[racethe1320]

This is interesting!?!?!?
How?

How many Trader Joe workers do you see on a regular basis?

Because if Trader Joe's stays with Eye Med, you have less than a 50% chance of seeing that client. EyeMed clearly directs their patients to their own retail shops not private practice. If VSP gets them back, it's less than 5% that patients will go out of network. So complain all you want, if VSP does nothing, you gain nothing. They are doing what they need to do in order to stay competitive and put patients back in the hands of independent ECP's.

[racethe1320]

Are you on VSP's payroll?

No. I Have a very close friend and distant relative that is a state rep. I do regularly volunteer for their mobile clinics though.

[racethe1320]

Hmm...It was a big deal before. Now all of the sudden they can log on and file claims? Sounds like a pretty big deal to me.

Not really. In the end, big business is still pushing VSP for a retail "option". It's still ultimately up to the patient to decide where they go. At least if the patient is with VSP and not EyeMed we (independents) still have a shot at them. If they stay with EyeMed, they will very likely visit Pearl or Lenscrafters. Now what does it stay about the local Independent ECP practices if a patient goes out of network to Costco while under a VSP Plan? One can't blame VSP for them going out of network.

Please finish the above sentence. "VSP is trying to HELP private practice...(HOW?)"
They are trying to "help" private practice like Essilor is trying to "help" private practice by competing against them.

No, I've already explained the first half. VSP in no way competes with private practice. If you believe that, please tell me how.

I don't think that it's been lost on anyone that you appear to be commenting from a position of authority on the matter. (I have seen no "IMO", so I assume you know this info from sources we are not privy to.)

Yes/no. I have a much better understanding of VSP than most. I'm also pretty staunch on my thoughts as I hate seeing so many criticize a company yet so willing to accept reimbursements from them. It wouldn't bother me as much if those complaining had facts and not just message board rumor to go on.

So, tell us more about how VSP is out to "help" private practice...

Already have, but I can provide you a lot more informational facts if you wish. Just share with me your concerns.

[racethe1320]

Originally Posted by racethe1320
Don't say it's VSP trying to score anything other than a previous client back in order to HELP private practice.

This is interesting!?!?!? How?

I have already covered this, but I am curious as to what your thoughts are on why VSP's actions to win back clients from EyeMed are seen as NOT benefiting private practice and instead are hurting private ECP/docs?

[pezfaerie]

VSP in no way competes with private practice. If you believe that, please tell me how.



Hmmmm, If by private practice you mean Independant Optician owned, they compete by offering the Doctors higher pay out, oops I mean reimbursements, than to the Optician. I have documented proof so its not just some message board rumor. Even those Opticians who are able to accept reimbursement directly from "VSP" get much less than the doctors. However if you weren't speaking of the Independant Optician forget what I said.

[racethe1320]

However if you weren't speaking of the Independent Optician forget what I said.

I was not referencing independent opticians. My bad. FWIW, I think VSP will eventually support Opticians at the same level. Times are changing and they are changing their ways too. Who knows, with the purchase of Marchon, which, IMO, is their attempt to diversify and compete with Luxottica, they may end up making the move. Same with Eyefinity/OfficeMate. Those acquisitions only help move the ship in the direction so many here seem to want.

My question to all those here who are license opticians, if VSP did make that move, would you then all of a sudden be their supporter? or Instead would you gladly see their patients, while still coming here to complain and gripe about managed care and big bad VSP ?

I would also question how adding opticians to the mix would help anyone? Wouldn't it just water down the already competitive landscape?

[pezfaerie]

My question to all those here who are license opticians, if VSP did make that move, would you then all of a sudden be their supporter? or Instead would you gladly see their patients, while still coming here to complain and gripe about managed care and big bad VSP ?

I would also question how adding opticians to the mix would help anyone? Wouldn't it just water down the already competitive landscape?

I think if they let us play on the same field and reimbursed us exactly the same for the exact same services then I would consider it. However, if they try to pay Opticians less then Dr.'s for the same materials then nope, I'd still whine. I think that's the big ouch from Opticians is that they don't reimburse us or the patients the same and also don't truly allow us to be members. Besides controlling every aspect of the buisness (aspex frame is kinda what I was thinking of here).

[racethe1320]

I think if they let us play on the same field and reimbursed us exactly the same for the exact same services then I would consider it. However, if they try to pay Opticians less then Dr.'s for the same materials then nope, I'd still whine. I think that's the big ouch from Opticians is that they don't reimburse us or the patients the same and also don't truly allow us to be members. Besides controlling every aspect of the buisness (aspex frame is kinda what I was thinking of here).

I get where you're coming from. Good points. AGain, I hope VSP will find a way to change. The only thing I don't know for sure is if they accept opticians, would that then open Pandora's box for opticians that are at retail? Most docs, especially all their 27k or whatever the numbers is wouldn't be too happy. So I would say they would have to balance that and a 50+ year history with being able to garner enough business by making that decision. I believe it's a state by state thing to determine if they can limit Opticians. Again, I don't know, haven't thought that part through or gathered facts.

Aspex wise though, I actually side with VSP. From what I've read in the news, Aspex is lawsuit happy and I know that if I was going through a divorce, my wife would get the axe from my office right away. Can't blame VSP for that situation in my eyes. I wouldn't do business with someone who was going after me either.

[a1vo]

But how would you know how much VSP reimburses to calculate how much the patient needs to pay beyond what is covered? Each plan reimburses a little differently, don't they? Besides, I thought all out-of-network payments go directly to the patients, not providers.

Well, VSP rep now tell me how much they pay (to out-of-network providers like us) over the phone. This is different. In past they won't even talk to us.

I just did my first CMS 1500 claim to VSP about 2~3 weeks ago. Unfortunately, the check still went to the patient's home probably because VSP do not have my tax information on file yet. Hope that the next check will come to my store.

[cocoisland58]

I would go out on a limb here and say that in a few years if not less anyone but anyone who cares to jump on the VSP wagon will be welcomed with open arms. As of this year there are two chains (yes corporate chains and one is multi-state) that are VSP providers and are allowed to use their own private labs. One of these is owned by ODs who still do not work the required hours in their offices (or any office for that matter) that the contract states is necessary and the other is owned by a medical conglomerate hospital system. VSP has no allegiance to private practice believe me.

[LENNY]

I have already covered this, but I am curious as to what your thoughts are on why VSP's actions to win back clients from EyeMed are seen as NOT benefiting private practice and instead are hurting private ECP/docs?

This is very easy! My practice is not owned by OD so I do benefit from Eyemed having as much of the plans that VSP lost!
Also Why whould I benefit if the insurance company that I work for sends their customers to the discount place wher they can spend one third of my prices and get reimbursed easier than from me?

[racethe1320]

I would go out on a limb here and say that in a few years if not less anyone but anyone who cares to jump on the VSP wagon will be welcomed with open arms. As of this year there are two chains (yes corporate chains and one is multi-state) that are VSP providers and are allowed to use their own private labs. One of these is owned by ODs who still do not work the required hours in their offices (or any office for that matter) that the contract states is necessary VSP has no allegiance to private practice believe me.

So then you're familiar with the court case that was filed against VSP due to them having initially dropped this OD from their panel and how the courts in one state ruled against VSP and forced them to reinstate the practice in their home state ? Doesn't sound like you are. It's an interesting court ruling.

[racethe1320]

This is very easy! My practice is not owned by OD so I do benefit from Eyemed having as much of the plans that VSP lost!
Also Why whould I benefit if the insurance company that I work for sends their customers to the discount place wher they can spend one third of my prices and get reimbursed easier than from me?

I don't understand what the heck you were trying to type. Put down the Vodka.

However, if I'm even remotely understanding your post, you missed the end of my statement where I said private ECP/Docs. Not Optician. My understanding is that VSP's Client asked specifically for Costco as the retail option or they would stay with EyeMed. Given the nature of Costco, there's zero thread to a Private Practice OD like myself. If a prospective patient chooses Costco over me, then either me and my staff didn't do our job or the patient is a better fit for them than me. Not all butts belong in my chair.

[kcount]

I don't understand what the heck you were trying to type. Put down the Vodka.

However, if I'm even remotely understanding your post, you missed the end of my statement where I said private ECP/Docs. Not Optician. My understanding is that VSP's Client asked specifically for Costco as the retail option or they would stay with EyeMed. Given the nature of Costco, there's zero thread to a Private Practice OD like myself. If a prospective patient chooses Costco over me, then either me and my staff didn't do our job or the patient is a better fit for them than me. Not all butts belong in my chair.

As an independent Optician I can truly say, in the end, I really dont care about VSP. Thats not to say if they sign me up I wont take their money, but I believe they will slowly morph into an Eyemed clone and will most likely end up opening their own offices. (Although technically they already have by basically buying out 90% of the OD's. To understand this, consider what an OD's practice would be like with out VSP.) Realize I come to this conversation with a long time record of being a non-VSP supporter but I believe most would concur with my position. VSP / Eyemed the only difference is that Eyemed understands that its a retail game and want as many doors as possible on their roster. Until VSP gets their head out of the "We're pseudo-medical doctor's" they will continue to lose market share. Look around, the most successful MD's and OD's on this forum are the ones that have delineated their office into medical/optical back and retail front. In my area the most successful MD's are the one's that left dispensing off the table and focus 100% of their time into exams and surgery.

Thats my 2 cents at least.

[LENNY]

I don't understand what the heck you were trying to type. Put down the Vodka.

However, if I'm even remotely understanding your post, you missed the end of my statement where I said private ECP/Docs. Not Optician. My understanding is that VSP's Client asked specifically for Costco as the retail option or they would stay with EyeMed. Given the nature of Costco, there's zero thread to a Private Practice OD like myself. If a prospective patient chooses Costco over me, then either me and my staff didn't do our job or the patient is a better fit for them than me. Not all butts belong in my chair.

Vodka or no Vodka!
But I do consider myself a private ECP!
Since when it maters who OWNS the practice?

[LENNY]

I don't understand what the heck you were trying to type. Put down the Vodka.

However, if I'm even remotely understanding your post, you missed the end of my statement where I said private ECP/Docs. Not Optician. My understanding is that VSP's Client asked specifically for Costco as the retail option or they would stay with EyeMed. Given the nature of Costco, there's zero thread to a Private Practice OD like myself. If a prospective patient chooses Costco over me, then either me and my staff didn't do our job or the patient is a better fit for them than me. Not all butts belong in my chair.

I also hope that you have Opticians working for you and reading this board!

[racethe1320]

As an independent Optician I can truly say, in the end, I really dont care about VSP. Thats not to say if they sign me up I wont take their money,

At least you’re honest. You actually sound just like the very same description so many here have said about your beloved VSP. “ They take your money and don’t care. “ Ironic.

I believe they will slowly morph into an Eyemed clone and will most likely end up opening their own offices. (Although technically they already have by basically buying out 90% of the OD's. To understand this, consider what an OD's practice would be like with out VSP.)

Considering they were formed by OD’s for OD’s and support OD’s…….You or anyone have yet to show me a business model that would support your belief that VSP will go retail. You must have missed my previous post covering that.


Also, please tell me what would my practice look like without VSP in the world? Would I still have a huge population of patients headed my way or would EyeMed be the big player and directing even more people to Lenscrafters? Would they in turn raise their reimbursements to me as a way of saying “Wahoo, VSP is gone!!” ?

VSP / Eyemed the only difference is that Eyemed understands that its a retail game and want as many doors as possible on their roster. Until VSP gets their head out of the "We're pseudo-medical doctor's" they will continue to lose market share.

So tell me where EyeMed directs their patients vs. where VSP does? I know, I’m beating a dead horse.
Follow the money and tell me where EyeMed monies go.
Enlighten me too on how VSP supporting OD’s is causing them to lose market share. How is that impacting their battle with EyeMed at the Provider level?



Would any of us be better off if VSP lowered their prices to companies nationwide and drove their employees to retail stores like Pearl or LensCrafters? Would you benefit from that? I wouldn’t.

[racethe1320]

I also hope that you have Opticians working for you and reading this board!

I have two. They know my feelings. They also know their place in the world as it relates to VSP. They were well aware going into their profession that the VSP Monster wasn't going to support them. Then run a hell of a dispensary and do quite well. I want them to. Ironically, they are the ones who directed me here.

[kcount]

They also know their place in the world as it relates to VSP.

Thank you for qualifying your statement with, "as it relates to VSP." From the balance of your mesage it's seems that you do value your opticians, as long as they "belong" to you.

[racethe1320]

Thank you for qualifying your statement with, "as it relates to VSP." From the balance of your mesage it's seems that you do value your opticians, as long as they "belong" to you.

I've never implied in any of my posts that I don't value other opticians. I will say that many here who complain about VSP and act like VSP is doing them wrong should have known better going into their profession where they stand. VSP has always been about docs. Reminds me of my neighbor who is still upset that our HOA won't allow privacy fences. Guess he should have read the contract when he closed on his house. But hey, somehow it's not his fault and our HOA is the one doing him wrong.

[kcount]

At least you’re honest. You actually sound just like the very same description so many here have said about your beloved VSP. “ They take your money and don’t care. “ Ironic.</quote> ironic? That OD's and Opticians think alike or that I don't like 3rd party but would be willing to enjoy the increased revenue? In the end we're both businessmen.




<quote>
Considering they were formed by OD’s for OD’s and support OD’s…….You or anyone have yet to show me a business model that would support your belief that VSP will go retail. You must have missed my previous post covering that.</quote>

I didn't miss the statement that Costco was specifically asked for by Trader Joe's etc. but, if an organization that is of OD's and for OD's than why do they allow MD's on the panel? Are MD's not MORE of a threat to your business model? Is a medical doctor than can do refractions AND Sx not your enemy? Am I more of a threat if I employ said MD?
As to VSP going retail, they have already by doing the "test market with costco" Their testing the waters to see if the patient base will take less to have more options. here's your business model, Insurance company starts quietly buying small regional chains under dummy companies, to the outside world there's a new player in the game, except they are all on the panel for VSP. slowly one towne/city after another gets doors opened. Finally the Coup De Gras, VSP announces they have purchased controlling interest in company X. VSP has offices every where, and OD's are on the line. Don't worry though, this is all being done to support the independant OD from those nasty Lenscrafter people. yeah, and essilor wants to help me too.

<quote>
Also, please tell me what would my practice look like without VSP in the world? Would I still have a huge population of patients headed my way or would EyeMed be the big player and directing even more people to Lenscrafters? Would they in turn raise their reimbursements to me as a way of saying “Wahoo, VSP is gone!!” ?</quote>

Well, if we use a basic concept that 85-90% of your practice is presently VSP and If we were to remove the forced allegiance to your practice by VSP than we could optimistically state that you would lose 30% of your revenue over night. Given that that 30% of your patient population is not loyal but simply follows the insurance. This is a very giving number to say that 60% of your patients would rather PAY MORE than go somewhere else and recieve the same services. Thus you now have 40% of your current revenue stream, what does your office look like now? VSP doesn't love you sir, they use you as they would use me. VSP loves the bottom line, and ONLY THE BOTTOM LINE.

As to your question about Eyemed. No, of course they don't increase their reimbursements! Although I bet the C level exec's toast to their new found fortune.

<quote>
So tell me where EyeMed directs their patients vs. where VSP does? I know, I’m beating a dead horse.
Follow the money and tell me where EyeMed monies go.
Enlighten me too on how VSP supporting OD’s is causing them to lose market share. How is that impacting their battle with EyeMed at the Provider level?
</quote>

Good question. The monies flow to Mr. Del Vechio of course because all monies flow to the owner. Eyemed directs their participants to all sources of eyecare and materials including OD's, opticians and their own stores. We all know that going in and we differentiate by our skill sets.

<quote>
Would any of us be better off if VSP lowered their prices to companies nationwide and drove their employees to retail stores like Pearl or LensCrafters? Would you benefit from that? I wouldn’t.

Actually, I probably would benefit from that as would several other independent Opticians that I know. A significant amount of the population wants someone thats skilled and knowledgeable and we both know that can't or at least is a rare find in the chains.