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Thread: Got Asked for a PD Today (First Time)

  1. #76
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    Unfortunately, “parasitic” is the most appropriate term to describe the on-line operations. How else can such businesses obtain accurate measurements and provide product support. This cannot be compared to another B&M establishment down the street. In that case neither outlet depends on the other for basic professional support.

    I go back to my original suggestion. Let the B&M outlets purchase product from the on-line operations for less than cost. The brick and mortar operations could explain how the savings were created thus insuring additional customers for the on-line merchants and allowing it an “opportunity to turn the eyewear experience around with the patient.”

    Roy

  2. #77
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    Barry -- you need to get outside NYC and into the real world.
    Even if I am naive about real world conditions outside of NY, Costco pricing is consistent across the country. $28.95 complete SV. $99.00 for Ovation with frame. $55 Complete for bifocals.

    Why go online, I ask?

    B

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy R. Ferguson View Post
    Unfortunately, “parasitic” is the most appropriate term to describe the on-line operations. How else can such businesses obtain accurate measurements and provide product support. This cannot be compared to another B&M establishment down the street. In that case neither outlet depends on the other for basic professional support.
    I totally disagree.

    The retail optical store down the street is a "parasite" on the OD's operation if they don't have their own OD. You seem to think that the OD/Store combo is the best "use", when in fact it is most likely just the opposite. Stand alone stores (independant or not) without OD's do just as well, and in a lot of cases, better, than stores with an on-site OD.

    I'm not advocating that the OD stand alone, far from it. Just pointing out that the business model, as I wrote above, is out-moded and obsolete in today's real-life on-line environment. I believe that you (broad you) need to acknowledge and recognize that the on-line operations are not going to simply go away. They are here to stay. Then you have to decide how you are going to compete with them and get your business back. I've offered up a few suggestions, but at the end of the day it's certainly your choice. But you just can't ignore the problem and hope it will go away.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Even if I am naive about real world conditions outside of NY, Costco pricing is consistent across the country. $28.95 complete SV. $99.00 for Ovation with frame. $55 Complete for bifocals.

    Why go online, I ask?

    B
    Wow...those are great prices! Why go on-line? It has to do a lot with a generational thing. The gen-ex'ers and millenials are being brought up in an on-line environment, where everything from television to movies to shopping is done on-line. It's easier to sit at home behind the laptop and pull up a website to buy what you need than it is to hop in the car and chase around town trying to find the best deal. (And face it, it's also less expensive on gas for the car and far less wear and tear on the patience.)

  5. #80
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Online vendors make "zero" attempt to fit within the accepted standard of care set by the profession. I didn't make the rules I abide by them, and by abiding by them I am afforded the luxury of calling myself a professional and my work as quality. There is not one online vendor that can "truly" say that. They can print that on their sites, and come here and boast of their so called careers in the profession, but none of that means a thing to a patient who's eye wear was guesstimated.

    Over the years there has been many attempts to pilfer the public's dollars with schemes that reduce quality or cut corners, this is just another example. If you pride your work and the work you provide your patients then say "No" to the PD but do it nicely, do it with an explanation, do it so that you are not belittling them. Offer them your services at the price you deem fair and if you can go lower then do so in those instances where the patient is in need. Do not let any other business model take advantage of you, do not let an online slickster convince you that your services are overpriced, do not let the patient make you feel obligated to serve them for "FREE".

    MikeA - No need to respond, as soon as you start charging cost (Zero Profit) for your eye wear that's when I'll start taking PD's for "FREE" and we'll continue this conversation.

    Here is an example of a typical online sale that I have used as an example to many patients with success.

    http://www.ecpmag.com/1webmagazine/2...dispensers.asp

    Those really cheap glasses for under $10.00 well you know where they come from and those countries tend to like to put heavy metals in their frames, so a couple of well placed words like cadmium or lead, I usually tell people that if they are willing to try it then good for them, but please don't ever put your children in them.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    Those really cheap glasses for under $10.00 well you know where they come from and those countries tend to like to put heavy metals in their frames, so a couple of well placed words like cadmium or lead, I usually tell people that if they are willing to try it then good for them, but please don't ever put your children in them.
    A true professional would not use cheap scare tactics like that.

    And just so you know, I actually give eyewear away for free -- specialized filters for children of parents who blow glass. When was the last time you did that regularly?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    A true professional would not use cheap scare tactics like that.

    And just so you know, I actually give eyewear away for free -- specialized filters for children of parents who blow glass. When was the last time you did that regularly?
    http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...hlight=cadmium
    Check the post by Jerry Huang, he knows what he's talking about as he is a Chinese frame manufacturer.
    DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
    "There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."

  8. #83
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    Okaaaay...but first of all, the post is 3 years old (not that it means anything, but I personally take a cynical point of view on anything older than about a year), next, he was talking about only one process, plating matte black on a metal frame and also said that ANY manufacturer who does it that particular way, whether they are Chinese or Italian, will have heavy metals on the frame. Post #5 and post #6.

    I think it's a cheap shot to use that kind of fear factor as Harry is talking about. It's definately unprofessional, and potentially illegal. You can't denigrate a product without first hand knowledge. Using vague misleading statements to convince a consumer that a given product is somehow dangerous has been found time and again to be illegal. Definately not professional.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    Using vague misleading statements to convince a consumer that a given product is somehow dangerous has been found time and again to be illegal. Definately not professional.
    You could sell them the best product in the world and it would still be 'illegal', 'dangerous' or any other adjective you choose to describe an action done outside the guidelines set by law in my state.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    Okaaaay...but first of all, the post is 3 years old (not that it means anything, but I personally take a cynical point of view on anything older than about a year), next, he was talking about only one process, plating matte black on a metal frame and also said that ANY manufacturer who does it that particular way, whether they are Chinese or Italian, will have heavy metals on the frame. Post #5 and post #6.

    I think it's a cheap shot to use that kind of fear factor as Harry is talking about. It's definately unprofessional, and potentially illegal. You can't denigrate a product without first hand knowledge. Using vague misleading statements to convince a consumer that a given product is somehow dangerous has been found time and again to be illegal. Definately not professional.
    OK Mike;

    I say you wear one of the black matte metals frames and go away for 4 years. Then kindly report back to us here how your "first hand" knowledge was.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

  11. #86
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    Defending online eyeglasses as an alternative for people that can't afford it...if they were truly poor they would not have a computer, internet access and/or cable. Or has the definition of poor evolved to the point that the basics now include a TV and computer?

    It is the free services ECP's provide, 2-4-1, 2nd pair free, ect. that have devalued the public perception of eyecare and eyewear to the point that they should be cheap and free. Even though there are already enough optical stores providing cheap, the internet is assumed to be even cheaper since it is do-it-yourself eliminating the ECP. If those services are free, it may be promoting the idea that maybe anybody can do it.
    Even with contacts, our price is often within +-$10, but some patients believe the internet is cheaper no matter what we tell or demonstrate to them.

  12. #87
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthStar View Post
    Defending online eyeglasses as an alternative for people that can't afford it...if they were truly poor they would not have a computer, internet access and/or cable. Or has the definition of poor evolved to the point that the basics now include a TV and computer?

    It is the free services ECP's provide, 2-4-1, 2nd pair free, ect. that have devalued the public perception of eyecare and eyewear to the point that they should be cheap and free. Even though there are already enough optical stores providing cheap, the internet is assumed to be even cheaper since it is do-it-yourself eliminating the ECP. If those services are free, it may be promoting the idea that maybe anybody can do it.
    Even with contacts, our price is often within +-$10, but some patients believe the internet is cheaper no matter what we tell or demonstrate to them.
    If ECPs are to truly charitable, they'd help with the measurements and perform the online sourcing

    FWIW

    B

  13. #88
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    At the end of the day, the online industry is growing. You can find a way to profit from it, or continue to see your customers disappear & buy their glasses online. Thinking you hold all the cards is not smart and you're in for a big surprise. In the near future, everyone will change their stance on giving out the PD's and how to handle those "lost" customers.

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    Won't be long before some guy picks this up and offers the service for approx $10 a shot....http://cgi.ebay.ca/Professional-Digi...efaultDomain_0

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyc View Post
    Won't be long before some guy picks this up and offers the service for approx $10 a shot....http://cgi.ebay.ca/Professional-Digi...efaultDomain_0
    Illegal to do in most provinces.......for an immediate family member only, ok, but not for anyone else. That is a regulated act.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyc View Post
    At the end of the day, the online industry is growing. You can find a way to profit from it, or continue to see your customers disappear & buy their glasses online. Thinking you hold all the cards is not smart and you're in for a big surprise. In the near future, everyone will change their stance on giving out the PD's and how to handle those "lost" customers.
    Interesting facts posted here. How much is it growing, since inception.

    What is the suprise?

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    Quote Originally Posted by uncut View Post
    Illegal to do in most provinces.......for an immediate family member only, ok, but not for anyone else. That is a regulated act.
    Measuring PD's is a regulated act? Where? Can you quote the regulation, article and section that calls it out?

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    Blue Jumper


    IY Measure your own PD with iPhone
    I was following the post about patients asking for their PD measurement to 'take away'. Coincidentally, just got this in this AM from the UK 'Optician' magazine.

    Wonder if Steve Jobs measured HIS PD this way???

    http://www.opticianonline.net/Articl...asure+PD+.html

    On a new thread in the generalForum, the Iphone will now do it all at no charge

  19. #94
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    ...and they can tint thier own lenses with rit dye a micorwave.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    Measuring PD's is a regulated act? Where? Can you quote the regulation, article and section that calls it out?
    Aim to please, Mike! I will find the links to the Healthcare acts from the Govt. of Canada, federal, and at least one of the ten provinces, when I get to my other office tonight. I wil post them, then.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncut View Post
    Interesting facts posted here. How much is it growing, since inception.

    What is the suprise?
    Online sales were only about 2% of the total optical market last year. How long has FramesDirect been in business? Since 1998? They did around $10 million in sales last year, according to a report Essilor released recently. And they're the largest.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncut View Post
    Aim to please, Mike! I will find the links to the Healthcare acts from the Govt. of Canada, federal, and at least one of the ten provinces, when I get to my other office tonight. I wil post them, then.
    LOL, thanks!

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    Measuring PD's is a regulated act? Where? Can you quote the regulation, article and section that calls it out?
    The first link, Canada, province of Manitoba, the first province to have a dispensing Act. A freshly Assented Act called the Regulated Health Professions Act.

    http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/2009/c01509e.php#

    Check Definitions, Part I, Reserved Acts, Part 2,

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    Blue Jumper however the Iphone actually measures a PD ............................

    Quote Originally Posted by braheem24 View Post

    ...and they can tint thier own lenses with rit dye a micorwave.
    Looks like you can do anything these days...............however the Iphone actually measures a PD to 200th/mm exact...............no optician needed, as per link on my post above.


  25. #100
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    Update: Anecdotal information....In conversation with a retail chain optician, the Lion's Club collection boxes have been benefitting with more donated eyewear!!!!

    The source?..........An increase due to people leaving glasses purchased from internet sellers, because they don't work!

    WIN WIN!

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