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Thread: Got Asked for a PD Today (First Time)

  1. #1
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    Got Asked for a PD Today (First Time)

    This afternoon I had a 20 something women approach me and sheepishly ask if I could measure her "pupil distance," as her eye doctor wouldn't do it for her.

    I told her that I wouldn't. Actually you couldn't pay me enough to do that for anyone.

    I wonder how others deal with this relatively new phenomenon?
    I welcome you to share your experiences.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

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    registeredoptician Refractingoptician.com's Avatar
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    Last edited by Refractingoptician.com; 10-23-2010 at 02:56 PM.

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    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Blue Jumper

    Better get used to this poblem and solve it now...................as it is not going to go away. Every on line optical explains very clearly what a PD is, but prefers if a professional does it.

    A reasonable idea would be to charge a fee that includes PD measurement, checking the finished Rx and make the frame adjustments. You decide the amount for a fair professional fee, and you might get a new steady customer when their on-line expirience turns sour.

    Quote Originally Posted by copied from Zenni Optical)


    [B
    SORT BY PUPILLARY DISTANCE[/B]

    The PD or Pupillary Distance is the distance between the pupils of the eyes, center to center, in Millimeters (1 inch = 25.4mm).



    To sort through the frames from your Frame Search above which will accomodate a particular PD, choose the PD from the drop down menu.

    All frames from your search which will work with the PD chosen will be displayed.
    The websites of the 5 largest on line opticals have increased their website traffic by nearly 40% over the last 4 month. There are dozens of websites for public consumers discussions on the subject. There are now some 25,000 pairs sold between them on a daily basis.

    Ignoring this subject might also create a new type of ician to come on the market. The one that keeps no inventory and just services the on line purchases of consumers.
    Chris Ryser
    ________________________________________
    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    I have been asked a few times in the last year or so. I have told them that their pupillary distance and all other necessary measurements are the responsibility of the optician who sells them their eyewear. Then they admit to "going online" so I tell them I would be happy to provide the measurements, an Rx check and adjustment for 30.00. I have had no takers.

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    Blue Jumper One expirience....................

    Quote Originally Posted by cocoisland58 View Post

    Then they admit to "going online" so I tell them I would be happy to provide the measurements, an Rx check and adjustment for 30.00. I have had no takers.
    Here we have one negative expirience. ...............How can we solve this as the consumer does need the PD and also will need the adjustments.

    Maybe charge less ahead of the purchase and more when they come for adjustments, because if the glasses hurt nose or ears they will need you.
    Chris Ryser
    ________________________________________
    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  7. #7
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    A deaf and mute optician I know already has the correct answer. although she can only use sign language, she is an effective communicator. We can all learn her technique and diplomacy for dealing with these matters. Keep in mind that her husband is an auto mechanic and quite often customers would ask to borrow his tools . I think between them, they have the solution worked out for all of us.

    Originally her technique was this :
    http://www.blogitude.com/uploads/200...p-the-bird.png



    It has now been turned into a video learning experience to teach others the proper way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Ptb5fYiTw

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Here we have one negative expirience. ...............How can we solve this as the consumer does need the PD and also will need the adjustments.

    Maybe charge less ahead of the purchase and more when they come for adjustments, because if the glasses hurt nose or ears they will need you.
    Chris;

    Why would you even entertain and change your business model to accomodate these people? Notice I didn't say customers. These are NOT your customers. They are searching for the lowest price period. Not wanting to pay $30 for a PD? Please! Ok so how about this? If every ECP refused to provide a PD, even for a fee then I wonder how the unregulated online opticals would be doing? I like this ECP's approach.

    http://www.ecpmag.com/1webmagazine/2...e-services.asp

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

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    Quote Originally Posted by cocoisland58 View Post
    I have been asked a few times in the last year or so. I have told them that their pupillary distance and all other necessary measurements are the responsibility of the optician who sells them their eyewear. Then they admit to "going online" so I tell them I would be happy to provide the measurements, an Rx check and adjustment for 30.00. I have had no takers.
    I think you should have offerred to do a nice Turtle Wax on their car as well......that would have sealed the deal!

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Here we have one negative expirience. ...............How can we solve this as the consumer does need the PD and also will need the adjustments.

    Maybe charge less ahead of the purchase and more when they come for adjustments, because if the glasses hurt nose or ears they will need you.
    Chris;


    Why should we want to solve this?

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Now I See's Avatar
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    I've given out a couple, after I first opened. But after taking one of our state's required CE courses, and finding out that if I take the measurements, then I am responsible for any problems...I had a change of heart. I am more than willing to take responsibility for what happens with the patients that purchase from me, however, I do not want to be in the middle of an "on-line dispenser vs. independent optician" situation. The other thought is, if you are required to maintain liability insurance, what are the insurance company's thoughts? Knowing that there is some extra responsibility for giving out PD's for online purchases, would they still allow you coverage, and if so, at what premium?
    ___________________________________________

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    Master OptiBoarder Striderswife's Avatar
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    In our office, a PD is not taken unless the patient is ordering glasses, meaning it's not a regular measurement performed as part of an eye exam. If the patient wants us to provide that service (the act of taking the measurement), we do it for a charge, just like all the other tests and measurements we perform. For our fee, we will also verify the Rx once it has been filled, if the patient wants to show their sheepish face again after obviously taking their business elsewhere.
    It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

  13. #13
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    I had that a couple of times.
    People'd come in and ask "What do you charge for an eye test?" in a way you know why they are stopping by internet-glasses

    I once had a person who tried to cover his true motives so hard I was all happy and cheery and said "We don't charge anything for an eye test!"

    What he didn't know is that times were so slow in store we didn't have anything better to do.
    I did a complete eye test and managed to keep her in the exam room for over 45 minutes!.
    When we were done she said: "Ok, thanks can I have a presription?"

    And I replied: "That'll be €30,-"
    Her getting angry: "But you said an eye test was free of charge?"
    I replied, "The test is for free, the prescrtiption isn't unless you buy a pair of glasses." (which is actually the company's policy).
    She then left the store ranting about how I wasted her time!

    My collegues almost died laughting.

    But seriously, a free PD test? That's a no-no. You can take a complete eye exam and pay €30,- or get lost.

    Also, you can advise them to take the pd from their old glasses ^_^
    "Oh, you don't have a lensmeter at home, that's a shame..." ^_~

  14. #14
    Underemployed Genius Jacqui's Avatar
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    I charge $35 for PD, $50 to help select the right frame, $50 to verify Rx, and $65 to fit . This is all posted on a very large sign in clear view. It makes it easier and cheaper for people to pay a real optician for glasses.
    Proud Member of the ABE Club!
    Don't feed the Beast...

  15. #15
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    You charge for selecting a frame?
    Are you afraid they try the frame at your shop and buy it somewhere else?

    We don't really have that problem .Our frames are priced over the typeno. of the frame.
    So when clients write down the number of the frame they can't order it anywhere else because they are writing down our frame number ^_^

    We had people come back asking why they couldn't find the frame on the internet or other stores ^_~

    Saying this I think you might have a point. But what if people are browsing? Al lot of them may be persuaded to buy the frame you just advised. So you might be missing out some sales oppertunities I think.

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    OptiBoard Professional OptiBoard Bronze Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacqui View Post
    I charge $35 for PD, $50 to help select the right frame, $50 to verify Rx, and $65 to fit . This is all posted on a very large sign in clear view. It makes it easier and cheaper for people to pay a real optician for glasses.
    I think this sounds like a great idea, have you always done it this way?
    if not, did you encounter alot of resistance from your patients when you switched?
    do you charge a new customer who purchases glasses from you all those fees since you are doing all those things?
    do you still charge regular retail for frames and lenses? the reason I ask is there was a local optician a few years ago who did something similar to this but he was advertising that he was only charging "wholesale cost"for the frames and lenses and then charging a "dispensing fee" he had a menu board with the price of repairs, adjustments, and different dispensing fees etc... kind of like mcdonalds. He did not stay in business long so I assumed that business model just did not work, but maybe there was another reason he did not last, bad service, bad location whatever... maybe his dispensing fees weren't enough to cover his cost of doing business.
    I would love to know more about how this works for you I am very intriqued by the idea.
    what type of practice do you have- is it in a OMD's office, retail optician only, optician with an OD, are you in a retail setting or more of a medical setting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post
    Chris;

    Why would you even entertain and change your business model to accomodate these people? Notice I didn't say customers. These are NOT your customers. They are searching for the lowest price period. Not wanting to pay $30 for a PD? Please! Ok so how about this? If every ECP refused to provide a PD, even for a fee then I wonder how the unregulated online opticals would be doing? I like this ECP's approach.

    http://www.ecpmag.com/1webmagazine/2...e-services.asp

    Regards,
    Golfnorth
    Plus, you said this is your first. The optical model has been around for a few years. Online sunglasses have been around for 10. Not really the mass exodus that people were proclaiming would happen

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heather A View Post
    I've given out a couple, after I first opened. But after taking one of our state's required CE courses, and finding out that if I take the measurements, then I am responsible for any problems...I had a change of heart. I am more than willing to take responsibility for what happens with the patients that purchase from me, however, I do not want to be in the middle of an "on-line dispenser vs. independent optician" situation. The other thought is, if you are required to maintain liability insurance, what are the insurance company's thoughts? Knowing that there is some extra responsibility for giving out PD's for online purchases, would they still allow you coverage, and if so, at what premium?
    Now this is an interesting point...we should be checking with our regulatory agencies to determine liability. No regulatory agency in your state, then check with your attorney.

    "Jargon is the last refuge of the scoundrel." --Roger Ebert

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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post
    Now this is an interesting point...we should be checking with our regulatory agencies to determine liability. No regulatory agency in your state, then check with your attorney.
    Assuming that you could get a response at all , why would you believe the regulatory body let alone a lawyer ? Laws are subject to interpretation . Would they be telling you the law according to regulations or according to bylaws or according to policies ? If you were not extremely particular in your wording you may get various answers. You would also require the question and the answer to be in writing and even then both would be subject to interpretation.

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    Blue Jumper Make them go into Internet heaven...................

    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post

    Chris;
    Why should we want to solve this?

    Regards,
    Golfnorth
    Golfnorth,

    When today's largest optical corporation purchased a majority steak of Frames Direct, which is the second largest on line retailer after Zenni's, they knew what they were doing. They did not take a risk, because they knew that they could get away with it.

    We can even see it right here on OptiBoard, members shy away from any serious discussion what could happen to the profession and its suppliers within the next few years.

    When a high quality manufacturer goes into direct competition with the professional retailer = their customers, on the lowest level of the professional scale, they must be out to kill for their own good.

    Remembering times in the optical Europe when opticians had cartels and just about could force their suppliers to behave the way they wanted or else. These days are over and gone.


    Why would you even entertain and change your business model to accomodate these people? Notice I didn't say customers. These are NOT your customers. They are searching for the lowest price period.
    Yes they are not your customers, but maybe could have been, for sure they were somebodies customers. Maybe they have lost their jobs or lost half a fortune on the stock market, and now their pension is cut in half.
    So they are searching for low prices out of necessity.

    The recession is not over yet and a monetary collapse is coming closer with Europe in all these financial problems. Things will never go back to what we call normal, the way it was. The US has 30 million un-employed people and in Canada it also hovers around 10%.

    So why not find a way that will let the professional make some money for his services instead of giving them away, or find a way of making the danger of the on-line opticals go away into the internet heaven.

    regards
    Chris R
    Chris Ryser
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    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    @golfnorth:

    What was the lady's response to your stand?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Golfnorth,

    When today's largest optical corporation purchased a majority steak of Frames Direct, which is the second largest on line retailer after Zenni's, they knew what they were doing. They did not take a risk, because they knew that they could get away with it.

    Correction they think they can get away with it. Your assumption is that the fight is over, but I stopped using their products and I see many here have as well.

    We can even see it right here on OptiBoard, members shy away from any serious discussion what could happen to the profession and its suppliers within the next few years.

    I am not allowed to discuss that ;)

    When a high quality manufacturer goes into direct competition with the professional retailer = their customers, on the lowest level of the professional scale, they must be out to kill for their own good.

    Actually I see it another way, they have spent millions for years trying ot make professionals believe they are high quality but it is getting more and more expensive and the competition has better more advanced products so they are finally showing their cards. The company you speak of has for years had bottom of the rung product, now they are finally selling it to the bottom of the rung.

    Remembering times in the optical Europe when opticians had cartels and just about could force their suppliers to behave the way they wanted or else. These days are over and gone.

    No they are not, look at VSP, Vision Source, etc. Banding together has always and will always have an effect on big business. The problem is that any group that forms is always going to be suceptable to greed and greed is fueled by money and money my firends is what the big businesses use as their precision cutting instruments.

    Yes they are not your customers, but maybe could have been, for sure they were somebodies customers. Maybe they have lost their jobs or lost half a fortune on the stock market, and now their pension is cut in half.
    So they are searching for low prices out of necessity.

    I don't give them PD's but I assume that anyone coming in the office asking for a PD is buying online. I confront them with that and recommend they visit an outfit in my area called America's Best, they can get glasses cheap and still get what resembles service. Many of these cheap skates have been there before and had a bad experience and don't mind telling me so. One simple question, how much would they be willing to pay for a better experience? I ask them for a budget that they think would be a fair compensation for eyewear. If it is reasonable many times I can make the sale.

    The recession is not over yet and a monetary collapse is coming closer with Europe in all these financial problems. Things will never go back to what we call normal, the way it was. The US has 30 million un-employed people and in Canada it also hovers around 10%.

    So why not find a way that will let the professional make some money for his services instead of giving them away, or find a way of making the danger of the on-line opticals go away into the internet heaven.

    It's time to start really selling and stop sitting on our butts and waiting for every opportunity to come to us. Just a patient coming into the office asking for a PD gives enough information to a salesman to have a shot at the sale.

    regards
    Chris R
    Chris,

    If you give a PD to a patient you might as well start your own online optical shop. If your going to advocate it in the patients eye's and you see it as a true inevitability then why settle for a dispensing fee when you can have the whole nut.

  23. #23
    Master OptiBoarder TLG's Avatar
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    I went to my manager and asked how they want us to handle PD requests. We are part of a very large Ophthalmology practice and the word came down from our owner - we are "forbidden" from providing them. Boy, did that make my life easy!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncut View Post
    @golfnorth:

    What was the lady's response to your stand?
    Hi Uncut;

    The young lady sheepishly turned around and walked out of my store without saying a thing and without a wimper. I can only speculate that she had heard no a few times before walking into my store.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

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    Dear moderator,
    I have replied to this thread @goldnorth...Where is my reply?? I can not find it...??

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