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Thread: safety lenses/frames

  1. #1
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    Confused safety lenses/frames

    I have been trying to find infomation about Putting Non industrial safety lenses into a Z87 frame, but I cannot seem to find the information...

    I know that industrial safety lenses must be in a Z87 Frame,

    I have Patients who like the Z87 Safety frame, because of the durability...

    can anyone help

  2. #2
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nawsman View Post
    I have been trying to find infomation about Putting Non industrial safety lenses into a Z87 frame, but I cannot seem to find the information...

    I know that industrial safety lenses must be in a Z87 Frame,

    I have Patients who like the Z87 Safety frame, because of the durability...

    can anyone help

    You answered yourself with the 2nd sentance. You can't legally put dress wear lenses in a safety frame. In fact they need the safety labs etching on the lenses too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    You answered yourself with the 2nd sentance. You can't legally put dress wear lenses in a safety frame. In fact they need the safety labs etching on the lenses too.
    Could you provide that law for me?
    Thanks

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    Independent Problem Optiholic edKENdance's Avatar
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    Here's a discussion on the Canadian Forum http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...-safety-frames which has info on it. I haven't had an issue doing it for people that want to wear them as dress wear.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    If you have access to the System for Ophthalmic Dispensing, Third Edition, your question is answered on page 578. The short answer is no dress lenses in safety frames.

    This may give you more information on ANSI z87.1

    http://www.quantumoptical.com/online...asp?courses=20

  6. #6
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    I have read the Z87.1 2003 standards. The standards only refer to safety glasses and the criteria that they must meet to be classified as basic or high impact. If the criteria isn't met then they can't be classified as safety glasses. There is no mention that a dress lens can't be put into a safety frame. I have never seen that law anywhere.

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    I have also read The ANSI standard for Z87..and I cannot find any wear where it states that you cannot put Dress lenses in Z87 Frames...I have the Patient Sign a form stating that the lenses are not Industrial lenses and cannot be used for safety purposes

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    A frame with the Z87 marking indicates that the frame is suitable for Z87 lenses, and with the lenses meeting the Z87 standards and receiving the proper permanent markings they can be classified as safety glasses. Unless someone can show me otherwise.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Agreed, however do you want to put yourself in that position legally? Once the patient leaves your office, you have no control over how they really use their eyewear while being entirely resposible for any damages sustained during their use. Waiver or no waiver, turning a blind eye (no pun intended) is simply bad business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nawsman View Post
    I have Patients who like the Z87 Safety frame, because of the durability...
    I have had a few patients fall in love with an industrial safety frame so I simply inform them that the lenses will be the standard industrial safety lenses. In most cases there won't be a heck of a lot of difference other than that little logo we crimp into the corner. None of the patients who bought the frame minded the lenses.
    I wouldn't put dress lenses in one and I don't really care what the "law" states. It's still my butt on the line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy Canty View Post
    Agreed, however do you want to put yourself in that position legally? Once the patient leaves your office, you have no control over how they really use their eyewear while being entirely resposible for any damages sustained during their use. Waiver or no waiver, turning a blind eye (no pun intended) is simply bad business.
    BINGO!! I agree.

  12. #12
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    safety

    it always amazes me how stupid some of you can be, just to push a point to satisfy your own ego.

    Yes if your stupid you can glaze a dress thickness lens into a z-87 frame, however did you ever stop and think about the long term consequences of your actions.

    Mr. customer now walks into an industrial enviorment, wearing his (now) ILLEGAL glasses, and an accident occurs. perhaps ruining his eyesight. Now what do you suppose will happen, H.H. Schwartz LLC ??

    Also you can wind up making the manufacturer liable for a fine, if they are caught by an osha inspector, with dress safety, unmarked lenses in thier frames.

    Have i seen all these events happen, YES, i did industrial safety glasses for years


    I KNOW, aint never happen to me yet, and ive dispensed a ton of these, keep dreaming, sooner or later, BTW, this will always be the customer that tells you, i,m not in a plant anymore
    Last edited by harry a saake; 06-05-2010 at 08:31 AM. Reason: add on

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    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    I haven't been in the wholesale lab business for years, but as an industry, we all (wholesale labs) agreed to never put dress in a z87 marked frame. I'd be surprised if you would find one today that would do it either. I wouldn't do it even if you filed the markings off the frame.

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    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nawsman View Post
    I have Patients who like the Z87 Safety frame, because of the durability...
    Z87 frames are not made any more durable than a dress frame, they're made so that if there is an impact with them, they are less likely to injure the wearer than dress frames.
    ...Just ask me...

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    OptiBoard Apprentice hmr629's Avatar
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    Its been my experience that....

    1. The Z87 is NOT a frame but merely a designation indicating that its approved for safety/industrial use ( there are 100s of Z87 frames made by different manufacturers all with different 'frame names' )
    2. You can put DRESS lenses into a SAFETY frame BUT they are not considered safety glasses.
    3. You can put SAFETY lenses into a DRESS frame but again they are not considered safety glasses.
    4. The ONLY thing that makes a pair of glasses safety glasses is a properly designated Z87 safety frame with industrial thickness lenses(minimum 3.0 edge thickness) that are properly monogrammed by the lab completing the glasses. Any deviation renders the glasses as NON safety.

    Is not unusual to have patients that want to keep their safety frame for non safety use. Just as there are patients that may like to keep their lenses should they want to replace the frame with a non safety frame. All of these can be done...but bottom line is doing that means they are no longer safety glasses....period. But the liability, should an accident occur, could fall on you for replacing either one with a non safety product.

    As Harry said....it only takes the one customer/patient...'thats not in the plant anymore'...to land you in the courts.

    Best rule of thumb...safety frames require safety lenses (thickness and monogramming included)....that way everybody is covered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harry a saake View Post
    it always amazes me how stupid some of you can be, just to push a point to satisfy your own ego.

    Yes if your stupid you can glaze a dress thickness lens into a z-87 frame, however did you ever stop and think about the long term consequences of your actions.

    Mr. customer now walks into an industrial enviorment, wearing his (now) ILLEGAL glasses, and an accident occurs. perhaps ruining his eyesight. Now what do you suppose will happen, H.H. Schwartz LLC ??

    Also you can wind up making the manufacturer liable for a fine, if they are caught by an osha inspector, with dress safety, unmarked lenses in thier frames.

    Have i seen all these events happen, YES, i did industrial safety glasses for years


    I KNOW, aint never happen to me yet, and ive dispensed a ton of these, keep dreaming, sooner or later, BTW, this will always be the customer that tells you, i,m not in a plant anymore
    Well said Harry. I've posted my views and opinions on numerous occasions under the Canadian discussion section on this exact same subject in relation to CSA. Each and every time, I was tarred and feathered.

    Those individuals that choose to go against the grain and do this are absolutely egotistical reckless idiots and does nothing to promote our ethics as professionals.

    Cheap, cheap, cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spexvet View Post
    Z87 frames are not made any more durable than a dress frame, they're made so that if there is an impact with them, they are less likely to injure the wearer than dress frames.
    You couldn't be further from the truth. That bag over your head has apparently killed some brain cells.

    Ofcourse safety frames are made more durable to be able to provide a protective barrier in the event of impact. If they were made the same, why would there be an ANSI Z87 standard for the manufacture of protective eyewear that covers both components (frames and lenses)? Just have a look at the bevel of a safety frame; it is much deeper designed to hold the lens in the frame upon impact and not push through to injure the wearer. Not to mention side shields for side impact protection, frames size for coverage, flammability, and corrosiveness are all required components of safety frames.

    I have personally designed, developed, manufactured and tested (for safety certification) a line of safety frames that was successful for use in companies across Canada. It was a very interesting process and learning curve to say the least.

  18. #18
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter varmint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nawsman View Post
    I have also read The ANSI standard for Z87..and I cannot find any wear where it states that you cannot put Dress lenses in Z87 Frames...I have the Patient Sign a form stating that the lenses are not Industrial lenses and cannot be used for safety purposes
    I'd ask your lawyer about this one, I'd be willing to bet that you made yourself even more liable by having them sign the waver as you just acknowledged the fact you were aware you were putting them in an unsafe pair of eyewear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by varmint View Post
    I'd ask your lawyer about this one, I'd be willing to bet that you made yourself even more liable by having them sign the waver as you just acknowledged the fact you were aware you were putting them in an unsafe pair of eyewear.
    Agree...signing a waiver indicating you will not harm anyone while you drink and drive does not make one exempt from the law prohibiting such action.

  20. #20
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    I avoid the problem by never having the safety frames on display with frames for the general public.

    CSA and CCOHS guidelines do not specifially address the issue in Canada. Our provincial guidelines do not address this very issue. I believe that the lab rules should be followed.

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    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Whether in the US or Canada all safety products must be identified as such in order that both the worker and his employer can be certain that the eye wear does indeed meet the requirements of the law. The Z87 must appear on the frame front, each temple and each side shield while each of the lenses must be likewise embossed.

    Back in the fifties and sixties when heat treating and later chem tempering became in common use for glass ophthalmic lenses (and glass was still king) there was a great deal of confusion among the masses regarding "safety" lenses. We made a big deal (and a lot of money) selling dress safety lenses and Joe Lunchpail thought that these glasses met the new OSHA regulations for industrial safety wear. Adding to the problem was the fact that the employer had no way to ascertain that the glasses met the OSHA requirements. So, under pressure from OSHA and State Workman's Compensation it was decided that all PPE meeting OSHA requirements be appropriately labeled.

    So, now the foreman on the job can insure that all of his employees have the proper level of eye protection for the work at hand without resorting to polariscopes, thickness calipers or any other implement. Just look for the Z78.

  22. #22
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    I don't sell safety frames, safety lenses, or safety glasses!

    Problem solved!

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    Independent Problem Optiholic edKENdance's Avatar
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    3 criteria have to be met before a frame is considered to be a safety frame. Z markings on each temple, proper lens thickness with engravings and side shields permanently attached (as of 2008). If any of these criteria are not met then the frame is not considered to be a certified safety frame. Lens thickness aside, if anyone walked into a work environment without permanently affixed sideshields they are knowingly violating safety protocol I take a little offense being referred to as an egotistical tar and featherer but just like it is with the other hot legal topic of kids and lens materials my views vary wildly from my American counterparts. You folks are just legal crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if some of you feared litigation so much that you'd refuse to sell a pair of prescription frames to someone who didn't need glasses and only wanted to wear them for show in case they got into a car accident and the frames led to some kind of facial injury that wouldn't have occurred had they not been wearing them.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Well, there is roughly 1 attorney for every 300 people in the US. That's according to the American Bar Association. We sue everybody over everything.

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    Independent Problem Optiholic edKENdance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy Canty View Post
    Well, there is roughly 1 attorney for every 300 people in the US. That's according to the American Bar Association. We sue everybody over everything.
    We had a lady try to sue one of our stores because a piece of the paint from one of her temples got in her eye. That ain't gonna fly here.

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