FreeForm Lens- Whats the best?

[mm92103]

Hi, I'm an optician located in California and I'm thinking of opening my own store. I am really interested in the free form technonlogy and I'm curious at what every thinks is the best product out there. I have been research labs. I found that Shamir, Sieko, Hoya and Essilor are on the top of the list. Why do you pick one over the other? Does one offer better pricing? How long is it to get your product back? Does any body use online ordering? Do you need to have a tracer?

Any help would be appreciated :bbg:

[jmchapman]

I've been using the Hoya iD lenses they do a really good job, and it's a great company to support. And I find the pricing on their lenses to be a bit better than essilor. So far I haven't had one person return them which is really awesome. And no you don't have to have a tracer, but a good distometer works!

[mm92103]

Thanks for the information! Have you used the free form single vision or just for progressives? How long does it take to recieve your product? :)

[jmchapman]

no I haven't used any freeform single vision lenses yet, I'd say it generally takes about a week and a half for my lenses to come back, as long as there are no complications

[WFruit]

We produce (I work for a lab) both the Shamir and Seiko lines of Free Form, progressive and single vision. We've had excellent success with both brands, the Seiko being less expensive than the Shamir. We started the Shamir line just over two years ago, and we've had about 20 remakes total in that time. We've had Seiko for about a 9 months and we've only had one non-adapt for those (and he's the COO of our company...)

Turn around time depends on what you are ordering. Uncuts we usually ship same day, uncut with A/R 2~3 days depending on A/R. If we're doing the job complete, usually 2~3 days, about a week with A/R. We don't need a traced shape, although we do need frame dimensions, and sending the shape is always better.

I'm wearing a pair of the Seiko single vision and they have the best peripheral vision of any lens I've worn.

We've looked at the Essilor Free Form (Ideal) but currently don't see any advantage in offering it. It doesn't do anything that the Seiko doesn't do and it's more expensive (Shamir is also more than the Seiko, but they offer a much bigger Rx range and have a few more materials available as well.)

[gunner05]

I use Hoya here and have had rave reviews on the iD. We do a few zeiss, as well, but the vast majority of them are iDs, and I couldn't be happier. Along with that, I have done a ton of the sv free form lenses through them for patients with moderately high plus or higher cyl powers and those patients absolutely love me now. For your run of the mill patient, it's not going to be a big difference, but for some of the more complex Rxs, the patient can be very appreciative. In fact, one of mine just brought me a pan of brownies for putting her son (+5.00 sph -3.50 cyl) in the free form sv in 1.70. Just anecdotal, I know, but she said that all the time he's telling her that he sees better and that his teachers say that he pays more attention in class. After a few patients just like that, I'm definitely a believer.

[mm92103]

Thanks.... whats the biggest reason for the remakes? is it measurements? I heared from other opticians in my area that its better to have a tracer so that there is less problems. Would you agree?

[mm92103]

Thats great to hear. Hoya is very close to were I am at. Another friend of mine just started their own practice and is starting to use them as well and loves their product but is finding thier turn around time to be longer than promised. He is finding that vsp patients have preference over his jobs. Do you see long wait times with them?

[WFruit]

Thanks.... whats the biggest reason for the remakes? is it measurements? I heared from other opticians in my area that its better to have a tracer so that there is less problems. Would you agree?

It is ALWAYS better to have a tracer, since just having the frame measurements doesn't tell you the shape of the lens. Most Free Form software does take frame shape into account (when possible) in determining the lens curves and layout of the progressive. However, having the shape is not REQUIRED, since the software can work without it.

There are several labs that have a "shape library" that you can use. They give pictures of the most common shapes, usually 10~15 different ones, and you give them the frame measurements and pick which shape the frame you're using is closest to.

[gunner05]

No longer wait times, but we're probably one of the biggest single offices around. Since we are a large account, they seem to get us in and out super quick.

[KStraker]

We use the ID and Id lifestyle lenses from Hoya. They are excellent! We have also used the Nulux EP single vision on occassion, with good results. In my opinion, the Shamir and Hoya products are more optimized than the Essilor products. I don't send a tracing, just the box measurements. We edge the lenses here.

[sharpstick777]

In my RX -1.00 -.50 x84 ; -1.00 -.50 x81; +1.25 Add , the Hoya lenses have very narrow distance vision. I don't like turning my head to see things when I am driving. I do think the Hoya's manage trefoil and quadrafoil better than any other lens though so they have less skew than any other progressive I have tried. I find Hoya lenses here to be very overpriced in this area.

We use the ID and Id lifestyle lenses from Hoya. They are excellent! We have also used the Nulux EP single vision on occassion, with good results. In my opinion, the Shamir and Hoya products are more optimized than the Essilor products. I don't send a tracing, just the box measurements. We edge the lenses here.

Shamir's Auto II is excellent, with distance across the 180 very good with low distortion, and very little skew, but the intermediate is narrow, and I get a very slight fuzz everywhere. It comes closest to matching the SV experience but with a slight loss of sharpness everywhere

Physio lenses 360 give my eyes fatigue and find I am hunting to focus in the near and intermediate after only a few hours, although they are among the best cast lenses made, they don't in my opinion match any of the full digital lenses made. Its also expensive in my area.

Definity is the best across the reading and intermediate areas (very wide and stable) but the distance vision is very narrow, and not very crisp.

Zeiss's Individual is good, very much like the Shamir, but its expensive and it doesn't excell anywhere, just good all over. Slightly harder design than the Auto II though so the intermediate is a little wider.

My favorite free-form lately is the Seiko, clearer in the distance than any other progressive, its almost worth an extra .12 D. Supercede has the second widest intermediate after the Definity and the reading is good. Downside is that they have very little prism thinning so they "feel" different when I turn my head than other lenses, but that could be why they are so freakin clear. Auto II is still clearer in the very far corners of the distance portion though, but the Seiko beats Auto II up to about 40 degrees each direction off primary gaze.

I think I have 9 digital progressives now in the same Rx...

[scriptfiller]

I don't know what the best "branded" FF PAL is, but we have great success with Ice Tech. They do an exceptional job with wrap frames, I put a -5.00 in an 8 base wrap frame and they turned out awesome.