Does anyone know what the actual laws are in Ontario regarding putting non-safety lenses in a safety frame? Is it actually illegal or just against standards?
Does anyone know what the actual laws are in Ontario regarding putting non-safety lenses in a safety frame? Is it actually illegal or just against standards?
It is against the CSA standard Z94.3-02 which is not law, just a very strong recommendation based on expert testing and industry opinions from industry experts.
There is no law specific to this, however no labs I know will knowingly and willingly take on that huge liability or potential law suit that could result in the event of a patient injury that could financially wipe yourself and your business out.
There's only one reason why these requests even evolve...it's either a cheap patient, cheap OD or cheap Optician in that specific order.
Last edited by eyemanflying; 04-19-2010 at 06:31 PM.
I don't think there is a problem in using a safety frame with a regular RX. The patient may just like that frame. As long as it's not sold as a safety combination.Originally Posted by Ory
I thought so. Had a patient come in from great glasses with dress lenses in a safety frame. I warned they weren't safety. He just liked the frame; no side shields.
fixed. :)There's only one reason why these requests even evolve...it's either a cheap law-breaker, cheap patient, cheap optician or cheap OD in that specific order.
You are completely misinformed.
I'm completely shocked that Great Glasses would do such an illegal thing!
Last edited by eyemanflying; 04-19-2010 at 06:31 PM.
?????????
Then inform me. Exactly what clause in the Z94.3 prohibits, discourages or even mentions the use of safety frames in a regular dispense?
Perhaps you should table this question to the committe meeting in May. I'm sure they would all be pleased to find one of their own promoting an unsafe act condoning false assurance of protection to the wearer coupled with substantial liability to the lab.
Last edited by eyemanflying; 04-19-2010 at 06:45 PM.
Originally Posted by eyemanflying
You are completely misinformed.
Why not? We do it often. Sometimes we even put industrial stock lenses into non-safety frames.
I'm not promoting any such thing and I'm going to assume that there is no such Z94.3 clause.
At no point in Ory's post does he say that the client was under the impression that he acquired safety glasses. Quite the contrary, Ory says that the client just liked the frame.
You have no idea what happened in the dispensary, maybe the optical had the client sign a waiver, maybe the frame is a titanium, but in your world everyone's cheap and the lab is in danger of losing their business:bbg:
Putting thicker lenses into any dress frame is no issue since there is no impression of safety being implied. I've seen many OD's over the years ask for increased thickness when filling children's + prescriptions for two reasons - to make it stronger while helping to increase the magnification. In a dress frame, the customer is never misled at anytime.
You are completely misinformed.
Why not? We do it often. Sometimes we even put industrial stock lenses into non-safety frames.
Oh how the tune changes so quickly. One should never assume either...
Clause 15.4.1.1 states as follows:Prescription lenses used in prescription safety eyewear shall be manufactured from materials, includingtints and coatings, meeting the requirements for impact resistance.
Furthermore, Clause 15.4.1.2Lenses that meet the criteria ofTable 5 (lens thickness matrix table) are considered to meet the requirement for impact resistance of
prescription lenses.
Ory simply stated a question and it was answered correctly, that's what this forum is all about. So what exactly is your point? As to your other comments, such rhetoric doesn't even warrant a proper response.
Many dispensers will recommend safety frames as dress wear in consideration of a clients particular needs. They may be elderly infirm, developmentally challenged or physically impaired and are hard on glasses.
You are completely misinformed.
Why not? We do it often. Sometimes we even put industrial stock lenses into non-safety frames.
At no time is there an implied or explicit expectation that the specs will be safety certified, and patient and/or caregiver are fully aware of that fact. All parties just appreciate the durability that the frame category provides. You are not alone, lots of labs do this type of job.
I don't know which tune you are referring to, but I think it's in the key of F; as in FAIL.
How the safety lens matrix has any bearing on the discussion is beyond me.It contains nothing about how a frame may be used. There has been no evidence presented that suggests that Z94.3 prohibits or discourages the use of safety frames as dress wear.
It may be your personal opinion that safety frames can only be used in safety jobs, but the CSA standard does not substantiate that position.
Both your answer to Ory and your response to my post are incorrect.
As for my other comments, I agree that these forums can be a useful resource, but not when they are used as a pretext to insult consumers and ECP's.
That is all irrelevant...
This is getting rather boring. We don't agree - c'est la vie. I would highly suggest you look up 'liability' and do your best attempt to decipher the meaning.
This post was just hanging out there.
What's irrelevant?
Look at my earlier posts. The fact a customer may have an idiotic request, or the dispenser believes the customer will not ever use the eyewear in a safety application is all irrelevant.
My point is (to which some of you seem to be challenged in understanding) is safety frames were developed and designed for 'industrial applications'. In the event dress lenses are installed into a safety frame, it is completely against the CSA standard (to which I have already listed the clause(s)) which I know is not law, but is the only standard or document that can be referred to in Canada.
It provides false perception to the customer the eyewear is 'safe'. Also, any lab out there (to which there aren't many) that fills a safety frame with dress Rx lenses is putting themselves into a completely unnecessary situation of potential liability. The dispenser would also be listed in any legal suit in the event of an incident. If you don't believe me, contact a lawyer that specializes work related industrial accidents or personal injury cases.
I know safety frames are quite nice and stylish these days and rather inexpensive, but seriously, don't be so damn cheap and narrow minded and do the right thing as a professional for your patient/customer.
I believe the CSA standard you are using is :http://www.safemanitoba.com/uploads/...e_z94_3_02.pdf
"This standard relates to eye and face protectors for industrial and educational
processes. Hazards covered by the standard include: flying particles/objects,
heat/sparks, chemical splashes, molten metal, UV, visible and infrared radiation.
Hazards not addressed in the standard include: x-rays, gamma rays, high energy
particulate radiation, radio-active material, lasers or masers. The standard also outlines
the performance requirements tests but not comfort, service life or appearance."
According to my interpretation it was designed for the fabrication, useage, and dispensing of a safety approved frame, safety approved lenses, dispensing, of a safety appliance for the use in a patientworkplace that requires saftey eyewear to be worn. So if the appliance is not used in a safety situation there is no expectation by the customer/patient that these are safety approved lenses.
Second, since the time I graduated many years ago, and from all the labs I have used, I have never encountered a regular lab that would not put dress lenses into a safety frame or saftey lenses into a dress frame. The only refusal is that they would not put a safety stamp on a safety lens in a dress frame. And a safety eyewear company like AOSafety will only use safety frames and lenses together. In fact, if you want to follow the requirements from the ANSI standards or to some extent the CSA standard, each completed saftey eyewear job would have to have its lenses tested by the lab (or by you) with presumeably a drop ball test method. Anyone doing it in your store/office/or lab?
Lastly, to quote a previous posting, "There's only one reason why these requests even evolve...it's either a cheap patient, cheap OD or cheap Optician in that specific order. ". Come on , have some respect for all those involved in vision care !
I tell it like it is, sorry no apologies...those are the true reasons in most cases.
eyemanflying postedSo...the patient is the cheapest of the three or the optician ?I tell it like it is, sorry no apologies...those are the true reasons in most cases.
Besides, putting dress lenses into a safety frame saves the patient, OD, or Optician saves how much ? For the patient purchasing safety eyewear in Ontario the difference would be approximately $4 or less (for SV lenses) from a standard lab, and almost nothing from a saftey lab like AOSafety, as OD's have to go based on material +fee. So for the patient purchasing from an OD there is really no saving for either patient or OD dispenser. For the optician, I am not sure what the mark up difference would be . So I am not sure who is the cheapest on your list of patient/OD/Optician. Second , as i explained your reasoning for this discussion does not seem to be factual when labs will in fact put dress lenses into safety frames and the CSA standard has no regulation or recommendation for dress Rx's. the one recommendation I have read on the Optiboard forum, that makes a lot of sense, is not to give sideshield to patients for non-safety frames.
Ory, just out of curiosity, how did you determine that the lenses in the safety frame were dress lenses ?
Thanks for the advice. I usually do pretty well at comprehending what I read, because I concentrate on the words that are actually in the document.
There wasn't an imprint on the lens. The patient told me they weren't meant to be safety as far as he was aware.
I didn't bother pulling out the calipers to check but they didn't look like adequate centre thickness on a CR-39 lens.
You're welcome.
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