Non tollerence returns

**John R** · 02-18-2002, 02:28 PM

This is a sort of carry on from the frames returns thread.
Now we all know that if a patient can't tollerate their nice new varifocal's you can return them for a credit or new lenses depending on which way the manufacture is working things, so the patient ends up paying varifocal price for a pair of bif's or s/v.
Do any of you refund the diffrence in price? or if they go for s/v offer a free second pair?
Do any of you send lenses back for other reasons like perscribed wrong claiming non-tol?
Do you ever try them in diffrent brands of varifocal, but still send the old ones back as non-tol?

**Maria** · 02-18-2002, 05:48 PM

Yes, we refund the patient the difference. I do not wish to comment on the returns policy, since we use your lab sometimes :)

Jo · 02-18-2002, 06:32 PM

John,

The lab we use has a 3 month Dr's change and non-adapt policy at 100% discount. Optician error is a 50% discount. Switching from one brand of PAL to another seems to depend on circumstances. We tend to be honest so it is usually at 50% discount; if a Dr. sends an Rx back with use Brand X on it, then it is usually done as a Dr's change for the 100% discount.

Unless it is outside of the 3 month time period, we do refund the difference. Most patients want to go from a FT to two pairs. In that case, unless they want a more expensive frame, we just do up two pairs and call it even.

**John R** · 02-19-2002, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by Maria
Yes, we refund the patient the difference.

Coming from a big chain that is a surpise, but is good to hear. Dont see that advertised though..someone is slipping there.

I do not wish to comment on the returns policy, since we use your lab sometimes

Dont worry this info would not get passed on, dont think you return any anyway...
Its just we got one the other day after 6 months claiming non-tol. I know that with proper dispensing there should be next to no non-tols.

I just wonder how much longer the manufactures will offer this scheme, now varifocals seem to be the norm for folks requiring bifs.

**hcjilson** · 02-19-2002, 10:05 AM

John,
There are still many lined bifocal wearers out there so I think the non adapt policy will remain in effect for the forseeable future.I agree that with the introduction of the soft design lenses that the incidence of nonadaptation is significantly less, however its still there.

Concerning refunding the difference I would ask why?You have taken the time to do the job properly, and the move back to lined bifocals requires an additional amount of time to fit.I am up front with my customers and tell them from the beginning that no money will be refunded.( I harken back to the auto mechanic with the sign on the wall declaring an hourly charge of $55 per hour plus any portion of an hour.)We should be worth at least that much.My customers don't complain about the policy....because they know about it up front.I am tempted to say that non adapts are very rare in this practice......but as soon as the words appear on the screen, I am sure I'll get one today!
:D

I would love to hear where the 3 month period is coming from.I was told ( and tell my customers) that they have 60 days to evaluate these lenses.Not 61.Six months strains creditability.

Doctors changes are within that period are handled at no charge to me (as long as the measurements remain the same :D :D :D ) and my mistakes.....Yes, I did make one ONCE! are labeled as such to the lab usually with the statement that I screwed up.Lets face it, statistically it can't be someone elses mistake ALL the time!We know it and our Labs know it. My lab has been more than fair with me from the beginning, and even helped out last week on a project spawned by Optiboard.I could be no less to them in return.I hope someone from Northeast Lens reads this!!( thats a unashamed plug for the lab that helped the project)

best from harry j

**John R** · 02-19-2002, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by hcjilson
Concerning refunding the difference I would ask why?

It was something somone asked me about, who was thinking of changing to varifocals, but didnt want to end up paying extra for trying something they might not end up liking... I see what you are saying about time and effort involved, but likened it to buying a big car, not being able to get it in your garage so you go back and exchange it for a smaller model but dont get a refund on the price diffrence. ( not a very good analogy, but its one of the best i could come up with)

I guess 3 months gives the patient a reasonable time to adapt to the new lenses. I bet if it was 1 month a lot more would come back...

**hcjilson** · 02-19-2002, 01:02 PM

John,
It costs you about $2500. to drive out of the car lot after you've bought the car.Even if you turned around and came right back in saying you didn't like the way the car handled.The expression "Tough bananas" was originally heard from a car dealer!!:D.

The best argument I've heard for switching into a variable focus lens is that lined bifocals represent a technology thats over 200 years old, essentialy unchanged since Dr Franklin invented it.PAL's are today's technology and the closest thing to natural vision ever brought on to the market.It was done through research and development which is one of the things you are buying when you buy the lens.The person who remains unconvinced because of the price differential is probably watching a black and white telly and driving a 30 year old Morris.(do they still make them???)
best today from harry j

**chip anderson** · 02-19-2002, 06:40 PM

I don't think Ben Franklin got past the third or fourth grade. Don't think anyone ever insulted him before now by calling him "Doctor."

Chip

**hcjilson** · 02-20-2002, 10:57 AM

I hate to say this but you are wrong again Chip! While it is true that Ben Franklin was largely self educated he was awarded an honorary doctorate by a British Academic Group while he was serving as ambassador to Great Britan.This was to honor the scientific work that he had done. While I can't remember the original source of this bit of minutae, or the group which awarded it, I do recall where I saw it last.I can cite Rise to Rebellion by Jeff Shaara, published last year and while a fictional account, is based on actual historical anecdotes.He clearly states that this was an honorary title but in London he was known as Dr Franklin.

I hope John R sees this post and gives me a good grade for this portion of my apprenticeship!
Best from Harry

Why would one consider it an insult to be called Doctor? Please explain if you will.

**Maria** · 02-22-2002, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by John R
I know that with proper dispensing there should be next to no non-tols.

It's time for the cold, hard truth. All those times the wrong blank is ordered, all those times it's too thick, all those times the rx got written down wrong, all those times the optom retested.............do you know what the dispenser does? They send it back for non-tol! :):):):):):) Except in our shop. Of course.

**chip anderson** · 02-22-2002, 06:57 PM

R.J.

Many, Manny years ago when I was 19 or so, I worked in a contact lens manufactureing company. Once one of the owners (Jim Diprey) who was also a consutlant/salesman came in after a frustrating day and started b******* about the dumb elemental questions he was repeatedly asked by senior ophthalmologists.

Being young and fearless, I asked him: "Dip, if you don't like putting up with this. Why not go back to college and become an ophthalmologist?"

He replied: " I wouldn't lower myself."

I didn't understand this then, I do now.

Chip

**John R** · 02-23-2002, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by Maria

They send it back for non-tol!

I know that already, Just wondered how many would be upfront and say so.....
Non-tol returns are just another abuse of the system now, its always "Its not our fault" let someone else pick up the tab.....

**gebe33** · 02-23-2002, 05:20 AM

Hi John,
I would like to think that most people are honest and would never sent back a progressive lens that they screwed up for credit but people are funny when it comes to money.
Hi Harry,
I'm starting at Northeast Lens on Monday. They seem like a great group of guys.
Tom:D