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Thread: What do you think of Vision Source?

  1. #1
    Bad address email on file OptiChick21's Avatar
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    What do you think of Vision Source?

    I already tried searching for threads on this topic but didn't find anything helpful.

    So I am starting a new one to ask what you think of Vision Source?

    I am sure I have seen comments about them on here before...

    Please respond, good or bad and honestly! (my bosses are considering them)


    Thank you!

    Laura

  2. #2
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    What do they provide that your office doesn't already have?

    I have seen price lists from them for lab services and everything is Essilor product and they don't get any better discounts than we have been able to negotiate. From what I have seen they don't provide any source of significant benefit, but I have never actually worked in a vision source office to know what it is they provide. I have heard that they take a large piece of gross to belong to the network, I can't see how there would be any information worth a large piece of gross especially since margins are not usually high if your office is considering vision source. With the money you would spend on VS hire a good marketing firm and have them come up with a good campaign that is unique to your office.

  3. #3
    Optiwizard making films Audiyoda's Avatar
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    I worked for a practice that was VS - I don't remember the specifics, but I do recall some of the basics.

    VS takes a cut (2.5%-3%) from your gross receipts. Remember that's gross receipts, not net. On top of that there's their co-op marketing fee - another 2.5% (your area administrator I'm betting neglected to mention that your your ODs - and it's buried deep in their paperwork). So in the end you're paying about 5% of your gross receipts to VS - so 5% of everything - eyewear sales, contacts, professional fees, emergency procedure fees, - anything and everything. They have other fees as well depending on how much or how little you utilize their services - I don't remember what they are but there were plenty of them.

    The biggest benefit to VS is the discounts - before Oakley was owned by Luxottica I never saw their wholesale products discounted - until I saw the VS price list. They offer incredible discounts from just about every avenue in the industry - frames, contacts, accessories, meds, solutions, equipment (lane and lab), software, furniture, bench tools...you get the idea. That said...when I was working for this practice I had negotiated prices from our Essilor partner lab that were better than the VS price list - only because the VS price list includes prices on every little thing where as the prices I had negotiated includes many of those things (like rimless edge fees, polish edge fees, drill fees...). The OD I worked for drooled over the equipment discounts and saved $$$ on a new retinal camera, VF system, and a OCT.

    What do I think about them? Not much. At first I liked the idea - all in one discounts, substantial part of your financials taken care of, internet marketing provided...but then I really looked at it and found those additional fees. When I started to create the website I found exactly 1 (one) design format I could use - the same site design every other VS doc gets. And if you look around those sites, many of the more generic pictures are the same. Shoot, VSP offers better web hosting. Deal breaker for me was the area administrator - he pushed and pushed certain products that provided rebates (contacts and solutions were the biggies). What it amounted to was he was making money off each practice he oversaw and when they sold those rebate items he made even more.

  4. #4
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    You’ve searched the internet for answers, you’ve scoured through the medical section in the yellow pages, and still you aren’t satisfied with any of the information you’ve found.
    They can do even better than that; Vision Source has not only one trustworthy eye care expert, but an entire team of them, located all over the greater Tulsa area!

  5. #5
    OptiWizard Mr. Finney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexjoan View Post
    You’ve searched the internet for answers, you’ve scoured through the medical section in the yellow pages, and still you aren’t satisfied with any of the information you’ve found.
    They can do even better than that; Vision Source has not only one trustworthy eye care expert, but an entire team of them, located all over the greater Tulsa area!
    Hilarious! Although, just to be fair, VS has, according to their website, over 2000 network doctors, and their North America headquarters is in Texas.
    Bryan Finley, Florida Board Certified Licensed Dispensing Optician

  6. #6
    Master OptiBoarder Lee Prewitt's Avatar
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    I don't really get it either. I have seen well established practices convert to VS...all to get a discount? After you factor in your fees minus any discount where do you really come out? If you are thinking about it think long and hard.
    Lee Prewitt, ABOM
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    More Than A Patternless Edger Company

  7. #7
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    First - I wonder if this topic would be best left to the pro's only forum. Some touchy pricing info was given out above - which may or may not be correct. Vision Source should be the final word on what they may or may not be able to do for your practice. Contact them directly. That said, and having now worked in two different VS practices (any many more who were not over the years), there is most certainly a benefit. It is not strictly based on cost, but a large number of other factors as well. Your doctors should have much of this information if they're seriously looking into it. They should also be open to talking with you and the rest of the staff and bring up their own thoughts and feelings as to why they're looking into joining. There are many pros and cons to any sort of adventure in business. VS is no different. It's up to the individual practice to weigh and decide what works best for their own individual business model.

    As for hiring a consultant firm....if you ask me, there is no single greater complete waste of time and money!

    All the best to you!

    Brian~

  8. #8
    OptiBoard Novice eyehunt2's Avatar
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    The Dark side

    Don't turn to the dark side...ask you vendors to give you the same price as Vision Source, show them what you are being offered. They will welcome the opportunity to work with you rather than loose you.

    Do you really want to give up 2-3% of your gross revenue (this includes VSP dollars also, which you have already taken a beating on).

    Vision source will make it hard for you to manage your practice, select the products you want to carry, and interfere with your ability to sell your practice in the future.

    Ask them "How do I terminate this franchise agreement if I decide its not working ?"




    Quote Originally Posted by OptiChick21 View Post
    I already tried searching for threads on this topic but didn't find anything helpful.

    So I am starting a new one to ask what you think of Vision Source?

    I am sure I have seen comments about them on here before...

    Please respond, good or bad and honestly! (my bosses are considering them)


    Thank you!

    Laura

  9. #9
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    With Vision Source, you pay them a lot of money, then chase down discounts and hope to recoup your fee. The average OD practice ($500k/yr revenue) will pay VS $1000/mo. There are competitive groups out there, like IDOC (www.idoc.net) that have similar discounts and different fee structures. IDOC is $100/mo. The strategy is then to see how much you can profit off of it., not how to minimize your loss.

    VisionSource promotes private labeling and uses a franchise model. IDOC is focused on practice management, not on advertising and private labeling.

  10. #10
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    My Doc wants to go to VisionSource. We are already a successful practice and my fellow optician and myself have always activeley searched for our own discounts. We have done quite well in that task. Does it make sense to switch to vision source? Vision source of course will not let us discussed discount.....therefore I cannot see if my current venders will match wich I know they would to keep me. What is an Optician to do when doc wants his hand back in the cookie jar?

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cvlryscout710 View Post
    My Doc wants to go to VisionSource. We are already a successful practice and my fellow optician and myself have always activeley searched for our own discounts. We have done quite well in that task. Does it make sense to switch to vision source? Vision source of course will not let us discussed discount.....therefore I cannot see if my current venders will match wich I know they would to keep me. What is an Optician to do when doc wants his hand back in the cookie jar?
    Keep very good documentation. It all looks good until you factor in the costs associated with VS or any other group. Not to mention that other VS members in your area (your competition) will have access to your practice metrics.

  12. #12
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    I did not know about other offices having information on my metrics. I don't think I am a very big fan of that to begin with. I was most worried about spending years building relationships with my current labs only to jump ship on my doctors command when I am pretty sure my current labs might increase my optical discounts to match.

  13. #13
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    The national average on Optometric practices is that 40% of revenue is now Medical. That means at the best Vision Source is only giving you a discount on 60% of your revenue stream, but making 5% on 100% of it. If that isn't a scam, I don't know what is.

    In our area, all Vision Source practices are struggling. The frame boards are old and tired, the frames are mostly fashion brands that don't sell well, and the lenses are mostly all dated. They are thrilled with their discounts, but don't even realize they are falling behind their competition every week in sales. Think Pearl Vision. Is that how you want to be perceived? (one Vision Source practice did remodel, but they are still down 50% from last year).

    I have practices that are double last year despite the recession. In every case they sell premium lenses, premium eyewear only frames, focus on service and style with highly competant, trained and well paid staffs. And none of my booming offices are Vision Source.

    The post above about Vision Source pushing "spiffed" products is right on. Vision Source does not do what is best for your practice, they do what is best for Vision Source. And that means in the end your patient is getting short changed somewhere.

    Pull up Yelp in your city and do a search for "Optometrists". Look at the top 5 practices in your area based on their ratings, and then see if any are Vision Source. If you're in a city over 500K people, I doubt they will be. If you truly want to succeed, visit those top 5 practices and see what they are doing.

  14. #14
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    I've always thought it to be humorous that people will drive out of their way (or wait in line for 15 minutes) to save 3% on gas, but our doctors are so quick to sign away 3% of their gross sales to "be a member". If you want to give away 3% of your gross, I'll take it. If you want to be a member of a group, join the Lions club.

  15. #15
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Blue Jumper Vision Source Details............................

    A search at WHO IS outs them at:

    Updated: 1 second ago
    Registrant:
    Vision Source L.P.
    1849 Kingwood Drive, Suite 101
    Kingwood, TX 77339
    US

    Domain Name: VISIONSOURCE.COM

    Administrative Contact:
    Eyehub.com @EYEHUB.COM
    PO Box 1108
    Gold Beach, OR 97444
    US
    877-870-9386 fax: 208-955-3131


    http://www.eyehub.com/index.cfm?cont...lay&pageID=144

  16. #16
    OptiWizard
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    dont do it.

    we are looking into getting out of vision source which is a feat in itself.


    i have negotiated better discounts on everything, with the exception of the VS branded Cls. even equipment, most vendors if asked will give you the same pricing as a VS practice. they want the business.

    I have never had a new patient come in because of vision source... i have done more than a few rechecks, warranty replacements, and favors for other VS doctors... most of which seem to have this attitude that it is owed to them since we are in the same club... almost like inmates at the same prison.

    out of our little group, one defected over a year ago, us and 2 other offices will be out within a year, leaving 3-4 in this area. 8-10 years ago it was a 15 practice membership.


    i would talk to all the member practices in your area... all of them. if there are no member practices in your area... there is a reason. If you are successful, what are they hoping to gain? if youre struggling, giving away money isnt the answer.

  17. #17
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    My OD just came to me asking my opinion about joining Vision Source. I've never heard of them so of course the first thing I do is search on here and..tada..you guys have been talking about it. This forum is great. So I think I get the picture: you pay x amount of dollars depending on your revenue and in return, you get discounts on optical goods? Are you then locked into only what they carry? Am I no longer using my lab but a Vision Source lab? Only carrying the frames they allow me to choose from? My OD is getting pressure from another OD to sign on but it sounds like that OD gets a bonus of some kind if we do. But if the above is true, as far as carrying only certain frames and lenses, then all VS offices will carry the same things?
    ...just point your nose to whatever you're looking at...

  18. #18
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    I did not see any significant difference in their prices versus higher volume account from most of the suppliers. If ylou are small it might be worth it!

  19. #19
    OptiWizard
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    you arent required to carry certain products... but it is highly suggested that you do.


    thats where the awkward double edged sword comes in though... if you dont carry the products they push, you dont get their "super special VS only pricing!!" so then you are paying them for no real reason. or you can carry the same stuff every other VS does.... and pretty much make yourself a franchise for vision source.

    thats why i recommend talking to as many offices as possible, some places are lock step in line with vision source on everything, then there are others that you would never know are vision source and are able to work things in a better way.


    i think its a lazy answer. I havent seen any discounts that could not have been recieved otherwise, or better. The VS only products have yet to really impress me in either price or quality. The "advertising" seems to push vision source more than the individual practices.

    i have asked a few other offices details about how VS has benefited them, and all seem to get pretty vague, or justify it in other ways.

  20. #20
    OptiBoard Apprentice NanaG's Avatar
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    with the right lab.... WALMAN your doctors don't have to give a % of their life's blood and work away for little or no help. After all that is what they are looking for... HELP. The entire reason they went into private practice was to be independent... with VS... they sign all of that away. If they want to be "owned" by someone, why not just work for a chain. I look at all of the V S websites and see nothing interesting... they ALL look the same. BOOOOORING!! I am sad to see that their members expect or accept so little for their so called "investment".

    The help the Doctors are looking for is available... FOR FREE.... without a contract..... it is possible to get without VS.

  21. #21
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    We were VS for a long time, but did the math and found that the fees were costing us more than we were saving. We've been out ever since.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  22. #22
    OptiBoard Apprentice NanaG's Avatar
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    I have many accounts that did the same thing. I wish the Dr.s that join knew there was help for them to reach their goals without joining VS.

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