I am showing my age now, but my Dad loved those lens and he wore that huge frame. I used to wear Revo's in college, but now it is clearly not Nassau and the lens and frame quality is not the same either. As a competitive sailor, I think the the MJ glass lens is the only lens that has not changed but is actually much lighter than the old days and is still made in Japan or Italy by the same manufactures for the last 20 years, ahem to that as China has a long way to go.
No, I'm not a rep, I just work in an optical. Yes, we have Serengeti, but also Oakley and MJ. MJ will disappear since 90% of my clienst prefer Serengeti after they compare. Maybe their models are different in Europe? I don't know. If budget is a problem, they take Oakley or Ray Ban. I know the Serengeti frames are made in China, but not the lenses. They work together with Carl Zeiss for those (both plano and Rx)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
So aer RayBan and Oakley...most of them.Originally Posted by jimrask
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Overall I subscribe to the philosophy that many of us have adopted here on optiboard ie: stay away from large brands who force you to buy large minimums and give you a hard time later. Furthermore, many of the Safilo, Lux, Marchon etc frames are not profitable when used in a VSP setting. We have done better with Global Optique, Ideal optics, Roseco, Silver Dollar, Royal Vision, Clearvision, clariti and a few others. However, we do have 1-2 patients a week who complain to us that we do not have enough of the big name brands. Some of these patients have even stopped coming since they can't find what they want with us. Nonetheless, I would rather not cater my shop to very high end frames when I believe that most of my patients are satisfied with what we have. I think that you have to know your demographic and experiment a little with the different lines. We've experimented with many of the high end lines and then slowly eliminated many of them. Overall we're doing better.
Oakley has 50 pcs minimum here, and you have to buy the "box" which adds $1800, so you are looking at a minimum of $8000 for one line... just to start
Chanel is not adding new offices, but its a 40 pc min here which will cost you about $10,000
D&G had no minimum
Prada was 35 pieces, but I would recommend 50 because of the defective frames will leave you with 35 on the boards (I sent 16 back in one month once)
Versace.. no idea they were still made
Dior, Coach, Fendi and Gucci are all 35 min here, so account for about $5000 per line
Juicy was 25 when it launched, but the thought of "Juicy" stiched across some girls rear has kept me away from the line since.
I think your looking at dropping almost $100 grand on frames that mostly have poor quality, and make a lot of money for the frame companies but bleed offices dry. I have experience with almost all these lines, and in almost all cases they negatively impact an offices revenue. I have taken over offices that were unprofitable due to these lines and just removing them has increased revenue.
Please point your Dr. to this thread, or PM me. I have stories to tell...
I opened my last office for less than $13k, including frames, fixtures, and the lane.
It's turning a profit after less than 6 months, and not a name brand in stock.
I pray my competition doesn't catch on, and keeps the big boys in business!:cheers:
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Looks like somebody is on the radar for a buyout;)........now they know you are making money, somebody will be knocking asking you to "join forces with them"!
Only kidding (or not) but great to hear the store does well that quickly.
It’s so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don’t say it.
Who's "they"? Buyout? What for? I've had a few offers, but I don't golf, and am not much of a fisherman. Heck, I can't think of anyway I can have more fun than what I'm doing right now.
Buyout? No way...
You know, reading your post again...the part where it says, "they know you are making money..." I get the feeling that some (many) people are surprised when they actually make money in this business.
I am in the process of opening my 8th office, but in reality, it's my 11th. I've had 3 offices that were dismal failures, and I shut each of them down after less than 3 years. I always say that the only thing better than starting a business is closing one up. (Those of you that have done it know what I mean.)
Getting back to the thread however, I have to say that my biggest failure was in a market that I felt compelled to carry the big names, to be able to compete with everyone else. "Luckily", the strip center was taken by eminent domain and I was forced to leave. Here's the kicker, and why I have a certain animosity toward the big guys.
When the court sent me a letter, evicting me, I decided to sell the complete practice, lock, stock, and barrel. I advertised it on Optiboard, as some here may remember, and then I listed it on Ebay. I took photos and listed all the frames that went with the office.
Two day after listing the office, I got a call from a (supposed) lawyer at Maui Jim, saying that by listing the Maui Jim suns as part of the package, I was violating the "terms of our sales agreement" w/ MJ! They threatened to close all my accounts ( I had four offices then) if I didn't remove it immediately. This was at the same time MJ was readily available everywhere else online, as well as at the deepest of discounters, Costco.
So, in essence, they could care less that I was in a pinch, just that the words, "Maui Jim" had appeared somewhere in the ad. I edited the ad by putting the Maui Jim in bold print, and then saying that they weren't part of the deal because I was throwing them in for free because they were crap frames and I was no longer carrying them. I then closed my MJ accounts, and have kept them closed.
The post by sharpstick777 should be a real eye-opener for everyone. Look at the DEMANDS these companies put on the opticals that are selling their products for them@ What a stinking joke! Minimums? You've got to be kidding me! And don't be fooled into thinking that because they throw their weight around, their business is booming. I was a rep for one of them, and still meet with the reps for lunch, and I see the other side of it. It ain't good...
Last edited by Johns; 04-29-2010 at 08:53 PM.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
The only "high end" line I carry is Gucci. I have to have something to lock in the case. They actually sell fairly well since it's the only big name here. But I never had a minimum buy in. I actually traded out for them about three years ago and keep 20 spots open down from 30 (the recession took it's toll). The minute any vendor gives me a minimum is the day I start phasing out the line. Tried Prada and Versace a few years ago because the doc liked them. Took them on consignment and packed all but three (the doc bought them) up and sent them off before the six months was up. Haven't had a Lux rep in here since.
More often than not when a patient used to come in asking for any supposedly luxury brand, the majority would comment something like, "the store down the road has them for $XXX" we were always more expensive and you had to practically give them away to be competitive. The reps would always follow with "but you make more money even though the percentages are not as high". What the reps didn't understand or didn't want to understand was we did not have 100's of thousands to tie up in inventory and when you factor in the cost of borrowing money at current rates the profit margin gets even lower. I like to stay obscure with my brands and carry what feels like quality in hand. I have been doing this for more than 15 years and you can't lie to my hands so it is a solid system. It also helps that a majority of the quality non-branded frames not only allow me to tie up less capital but they have higher profit margins as well. I can get almost the same profit as once highest retail priced designer line now, with a frame that costs about 4 to 5 times less. It not only makes "cents" it makes dollars.
I just have to join this conversation on frame buying because it is so important to me at this point. I am currently looking to move and expand my office and I have been told that I really should expand my low-mid end lines. Any of you located in a wealthy neighborhood where people really watch every dollar they spend? This is my area! I know I need some upper end frames but all the minimums the the high price points really scars me. Can anyone recommend good quality higher end lines (both ophthalmic and sun) that I should consider bring in that can offer my customers good value? Is it really that bad to work with the big 3 vendors?
One of my offices is in a very affluent area. It is not uncommon for them to come in and want "just what my insurance covers". Since this is the general discussion page, I won't go into how we deal with it, but there are very effective ways that you can give them the look they want, at the profit you want.
I can honestly say that if I was buying today like bought back in the 80's & early 90's, I would have easily been out of business by the year 2000. Back then, money was not an issue for the consumer like it is now. As optician/owners, we receive no money from exams, so we've learned a long time ago how to make the most we can on the sale. Due to shrinking reimbursements from 3rd party plans, many ODs are just now coming to the realization that they'll have to change their habits it they want to survive. However, some of them are too addicted to the "names" to change.
Let me put that worn out recording on one more time..."It's not how you sell, it's how you buy".
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Hi Johns,
Thank you for your reply...but could you give me a little more hint on how to best buy frames? It's so hard to know what is best to buy and still have to consider profit. Can you give me some more pointers if you don't mind sharing? I gather that I don't need to buy high end frames to make high end profit but what do you look for in selecting the right frames to buy? I have the Armani Exchange people coming in this afternoon....should I buy or shouldn't I ?
Need2see
Hey Need2,
I can not speak for Brother Johns, but.......................................
There is a Pro's only Forum here on Optiboard. It is a hidden forum that you must pay/subscribe to see. These type of topics are discussed in that forum. I would hope that you can see the value of such information and decide to help support our beloved Optiboard by subscribing and joining in the real fun!
I have heard mention of this pro's only forum before- it is so well hidden that I can't figure out how to join it, can anybody tell me how?
Clickon the "settings" tab, upper right corner. Then scroll down to paid subcriptions, and enter which level you would like.
As a new office I struggled with this one question repeatedly. I'm in an affluent area but, as Johns stated, the days of the free wheeling credit card are long over. I have obscure brands such as Zero G, Bespoke, and less so Robert Marc. All have done well (outside of that one line we dont mention that went out as sunglasses). My concept today is to stick with products where I was an exclusive vendor and advertise the same. The name on the side means less than the profitability. In the end realize that a high-end frame typically wont have a name slapped on the side. Designer frames have the name, hi-end are subtle and simply say quality. Plus, they lack that nasty 'Return Ratio' thing.
Worse recession in resent history and I get the bright idea to open a boutique. Its worked, month 7 and we just made money (although not much) and the store has paid its own bills for the last several months.
- Optician
- Frame Maker/Designer
- Teacher of the art of crafting handmade eyewear.
thank you for the info, I guess I am just really stupid, I went to settings, I signed up and paid with paypal, but now I don't see the hidden conversations- how do I get to the forum itself?
Look for the Professionals Forum. It should be right under the General Forum andabove the Canadian Forum. If you do not see it, maybe your subscription needs a bit longer to update?
Good on you for not selling our or being bought out. I only mention this as I have known and heard of a few shops which, once they are running succesfully, go on the radar and are offered copious amounts of money to be bought out.
The other statement was that it was quite interesting to see someone flourish after 6 months, but reading you post now i realise that you have a lot of experience behind you, so that counts. Just that in general, 6 months seems a very short time to be making money.
It’s so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don’t say it.
On average, I'd say it's take most of my stores 2-3 years before I start to see a profit, but I can usually tell after the first 6-8 months if they're going to make it or not.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Lock up some frames that "look" expensive and claim it's an exclusive brand. It probably will have the same quality as the rest of the designer stuff.
I'm also an ophthalmologist and in the same position as your M.D. I eliminated most of the designer brands but am going to selectively bring some back since many people seem to ask for them. One possibility may be to get discontinued brand names which obviously don't have a minimum (although I have no idea where to get them). It should be noted, however, that those cannot be sold to VSP patients which is a large part of our business. You have to be ready to self-warranty when you deal with discos.
Just currious, why cant you sell them to VSP patients? I did when I was working in a VSP providers office.
- Optician
- Frame Maker/Designer
- Teacher of the art of crafting handmade eyewear.
VSP has a requirement that you only sell current frames (I personally called them about this). Also, when you enter the info on eyefinity they can tell if it's current. I realize that many people bypass these requirements but we observe all of the vsp requirements very carefully.
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