To my knowledge there has never been a post secondary school program in opticianry longer than two years in the United States. Please correct me if I am wrong.Originally Posted by rdcoach5
I recieved formal opticianry education
I was trained in a 2-3 year apprenticeship
I am self educated
To my knowledge there has never been a post secondary school program in opticianry longer than two years in the United States. Please correct me if I am wrong.
You're not wrong about that, but I think he meant a 4 year apprenticeship.
Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA
“As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein
With all due respect to your family, you will never learn the entire spectrum of what Opticianry has to offer in that manner. No other profession in health care continues to train this way, and it is time we change. This kind of thought limits you, and the entire profession, if that is what we truly are. Many of us consider ourselves professionals, but without a solid academic background for every Optician, we are measured by our weakest link. It is a shame we continue to see these arguments regarding the value of education.
i thought that is what continueing education seminars were for lol...we try to keep up with newer technologies. I was more saying everyday things that come up in our lab cant be taught in a classroom.. One of them things i would say is improv. If something does go wrong can we fix it to make it acceptable or are we eating some lenses. Which im kinda ingnorant in this debate because honestly idk how much they teach in the classroom setting.
Out of the best educated group of opticians to be found, roughly a third have formal education. As long as this continues to be the norm, we can not consider ourselves to be in the healthcare profession. We are tradesmen/craftsmen. This is why real healthcare professionals (OMD, OD) look down their noses at us. Imagine if doctors were self taught, apprenticed in the free clinic down the street, or learned from their daddy as opposed to graduating from qualified programs. Is that where you would go to get your heart transplant?
Ronnie, patient diagnosis isn't taught in the classroom either, but the foundation of knowledge that makes it possible is. That's what a residency is for, to teach improv diagnostics. Docs and ODs do CE to keep up with the times as well, but it's a bit more involved than showing up and playing on the blackberry until class over.
Learning how to run machines and sell product does not make you a healthcare professional. That makes you a craftsman or a salesman. Learning a comprehensive body of eyecare related knowledge does. Think about it.
I have no illusions; I am an excellent craftsman, and a pretty decent salesman. I also have an in depth and growing body of eyecare related knowledge that helps me to be better at both. Am I a healthcare/eyecare professional yet? I don't know.
Wes, ECP?
Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA
“As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein
Would you want your child to maneuver their way through life with only those skills they learned in school? Of course not. They learn the values of the family, and work ethic, and other important teachings in the home.
The home shapes the child, while the school educates them in the mechanics and theory of reading, math, and other core subjects.
Optical schools are no different. They give you a great foundation of core skills, backed up by the theory and mechanics behind them. Then, when you go to your job, you can put that to use, along with the inside tips and real life experiences your family "teachers" have learned in their practice. They should complement each other, and you could come out way ahead of your peers.
A gentleman in my class at HCC named Cliff G., had years of experience working at an Eckerd's Drug optical. I always wondered why he was in school, as he had such a good grasp of what was being taught. After a few weeks though, I would see him sit in the lectures, and his face would seem to just light up, and he'd say, "THAT'S what causes that!" or , "OH, THAT'S why that happens." He knew the how's, but he wanted to know the how's, the when's, and the where's. He wanted the whole picture, and with that school he got it.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
I can not speak for the curriculum offered in today's schools but at the Worcester Technical Institute in 1968 / 1969 we spent two hours every day in the lab performing everything from hand rocking cylinders to hand edging lenses and had a journeyman's skill set upon graduation. There was not a single task in either the surfacing or finishing lab that we had not done including slab-offs and lenticulars. We fabricated and modified contact lenses, sclaral shells and haptic lenses (this was the good old days before soft lenses.)
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how about as far as everyday adjusting and repairing? Actually you guys are getting me kinda interested to find out about this stuff.
www.nfos.org
How about knowing more about how the adjustment affects the way the light hits the lens, what happens when the light hits the lens (absorb, reflect, refract), and what effect it will have on the patient?
Or, would you like to know more than one way to adjust the frame to get the same results?
Like I said, it's the whole picture you're getting!
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Ronnie,
Due to where you live (Kentucky), the closest school to you is probably a hundred or hundreds of miles away. Unless you plan to move away from the family business you may want to consider one of the COA accreditted distance education programs that a few of the NFOS schools provide. The info on who offers these programs is not available on the NFOS website, so I suggest you contact Randy Smith who could probably give you that information. His e-mail is: randall.smith@baker.edu . These programs in combination with what you are learning from the family will be a big help to you.
Good luck
Those of us not formally educated would no doubt be "grandfathered" in as has been said in my state of Michigan which is unlicensed. Will opticians nationwide come to a consensus? Not likely. Opticianry is one of the few professions left in which you can achieve competency through an apprenticship. It would take a blanket law to up the educational requirement and that IMO won't happen.
Years ago I sat in a lab with some "ol' timers" from Soderberg (yes, I'm dating myself) These were the guys that had done everything and now found themselves installing and repairing old equipment to resale under the company flag. What was amazing was the comment they made about my mentor and myself. They were amazed that we were playing with Sphere bowls, old AIT (when they were still AIT)edgers and manual groovers. That we actually MADE GLASSES! This was right at the time when patternless edgers were gaining ground and the industry was in a great bit of flux both externally and internally. I couldn't appreciate it at the time but today I will tell you those were the most fun filled and intense years of my professional career. Because of that time I can now work through how to correct a job before the mistakes happen. What I'm hearing from others is that they had similar experiences either in class room or out, but they never stopped wondering why, or why not?
Ronnie, if you want a full view of what it is to be an optician find yourself an old school optician that is just a stick in the mud in about how "it should be done" then spend some time there. Donate your time, hang out, ask questions, get a box of a scrap lenses from the manufacturers or the labs and try doing crazy stuff. break some lions club frames and learn how far you can go. Get some books and start reading, talk to as many opticians you can that have some grey hair, or more alphabet soup behind there names than a college professor (Wess :shiner:). Then finally step back look at the body of knowledge and the industry, and ask one question. "What am I going to do to make it better, stronger, or how can I contribute to the industry?"
The answer may be big and bold and it may be as simple as taking on an apprentice to pass the knowledge and desire along to. Either way you have done more than most. Kudo's to you to start the first step and asking , "Why?"
KC
PS: May I suggest that you never again use short hand terms like "idk" from the texting world. Think of yourself in a college classroom. You wanted to learn, this is your university.
- Optician
- Frame Maker/Designer
- Teacher of the art of crafting handmade eyewear.
What you need to learn first are the right ways of doing the basic jobs and a classroom is the place to learn them. I have 40+ years in the business and could still learn a few tricks if I went to one of the schools. You may want to consider distance learning for at least part of your education, some schools have correspondence classes. Don't forget to visit sites such as Open Optix at Laramy-K, The Optical Vision Site, Eyeoverheard, and many others. I feel that we should be like the Md's and ODs, in a constant state of being educated and/or re-educated. CE's alone are not enough.
After you get done with school and a few years experience then find a crotchety, old, worn out, broken down lab tech like me and learn everything they can teach you. I love it when new Dr's and hot-shot opticians come into my lab to learn about hemianoptic lenses and Franklin bi-focals. I show them how they are made and then show then how to make a frame to put them into. You need to find someone with more skills than anyone realizes.
After the lab, find an old dispenser like Harry Jilson, Chip Anderson, Optical24/7 or a few others here. Pick their brains and watch everything they do. Ask questions. Albert Einstein said "The smartest people are the ones that ask the most questions".
After you have done ALL of the above, then you are on the way to becoming an optician.
Ouch!!:shiner:
The list that appears on the NFOS site for on line education is not correct and there are details that differentiate the schools that would be important to Ronnie or anyone applying. One important point is how many times the student needs to visit the campus for testing or other reasons. Some give you the opportunity to NEVER visit the campus, while others you must visit a different number of times. So depending on where you live and your ability to travel several times a year to the schools, you should look into this early on in the decision process. The key will be to have a strong preceptor at your work to help with the hands on skills that you will be responsible to learn.
The good news is that the 5 schools who are still in business out of the 6 listed, all 5 are COA accreditted (Vermont has closed).
Sorry, I was just grabbing names as I thought of them.
:cheers:
Sorry, but I've got to take you to task on this one. A 'solid' education does not an optician make. I've worked with opticians who went through opticianry associate degree programs (2-3 years of 'formal' education) - while some are very knowledgeable and I would not hesitate to consider them professional, others didn't have a clue. As is the case with any formal education, you get from it what you put into it and some people just enjoy going through the motions (for whatever reason).
To that end, I know opticians who have apprenticed or been mentored and they are exceptional opticians who could teach those who teach opticians a few things. As a matter of fact I know one optician I've had the pleasure to work with on a few occasions that was recently asked to accept a teaching position at Baker College (the only AAS in Opticianry in Michigan). During the interview process (he said it was more he was interviewing them - they had all but given him the job) he was disheartened at their methods. Auto-lensometers, patternless edgers, digital generators, students taught to keep cheat sheets of formulas rather than actually learn them...as he put it, they were learning to be lab rats - nothing more, nothing less.
Now I'm sure there are much finer AAS programs, but this is the only one in Michigan. So those of us who live here and really want to be considered a professional in this field have had to find other avenues to success. And...there are only a few dozen such schools nationwide so a formal education for all opticians is simply out of the question.
IMO (and past experiences) I'll take the optician who apprenticed and got hands on experience over the book smart AAS degreed optician with little or no hands on experience.
And so we remain largely uneducated and at the bottom of the optical food chain.
Optometry figured out the "educate then legislate" formula a hundred years ago and most Opticians continue to ignore its value. Will we never tire of sitting in the cheap seats?
I don't think that any of the posts/posters have said that a formal education on it's own is the answer, but rather a solid base on which to grow on.
I was 3 weeks out of school, had just moved back to Ohio, and the owner of a 42 store regional chain offered me the job as manager of one of the stores. He made this offer based on other the reputation of the school I went to, which happened to be located 1300 miles away.
I didn't know much, but I knew enough to say, "No thanks, I'm not qualified," as I had little actual experience, and almost no time on any real optical job.
When I started, working, I had a degree and a license, and I considered myself to be (and I was) starting at ground zero. However, I can definitely say that I was much better prepared for the challenges that awaited me, than my peers.
Yes we were all starting at ground zero, but those of us with formal education had a few more tools with which we could get ahead. I'll agree, not everyone chooses to use the knowledge they have, but those that do, definitely have an advantage.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
I don't disagree - but how many of us got into this gig for no other reason than at the time we needed a J-O-B? That was me 18+ years ago. And for nearly all that time I've worked with 'educated' opticians who are no better at this profession than I am but because they have this AAS degree I'm some bottom feeder. Now not all the opticians I've worked with who have taken the educational route treated people that way, but those that did really laid it on heavy.
Honestly I never would have considered this for a career path - but that's how it worked out. And I'm darn proud of my accomplishments. And I'm sure there are plenty of opticians that have similar stories to mine.
However, my entire point is there's more than one way to skin a pig.
I hope the school Barry is reffering to is Erie Community College, that is the best
else care to vote? Hard to believe that few people can click a button...
Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA
“As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein
Running a little late as usual...however I have voted and enjoyed reading the posts!
I went through our 3 - 1/2 year apprenticeship program. We are also required to take some classes on-line during the time we are with the program. Honestly, I enjoyed having the apprenticeship program as an option. I wanted to teach and needed to get back to school, but needed flexible hours, so I started working at an optical shop in our local mall...I fell in love with my job. I liked the lab, I liked the Optician's personalities, I liked the customers that came through the door, I also liked the fact that I could work while moving toward a goal (getting my license). I was working in the field for about 4 years before I became an apprentice....after being out of school, I felt pretty unsure about taking classes again and taking the board exam....yikes! Bottom line is I got through it, and that avenue worked for my situation.
I would love to see more consistancy across the states as far as licensure, and training. I like the fact that there are options, like the apprenticeship program, for formal training. Just like anything else, there are areas of the program that could be "tweaked." All-in-All, I would say it was a well rounded program and I felt I learned from it and all the Opticians that helped me (and are still helping me.)
I hate sitting in the cheap seats, I think Opticians are valuable....I'm just not sure what to do to get out of coach and get into first class...:o
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