What a wonderful irony - Could Massachusetts Sink Health Care Reform?

[rbaker]

To veteran political observers it sounds almost inconceivable: could Massachusetts, through its special election to fill Sen. Ted Kennedy's seat sink health care reform?

The special election is a mere week from Tuesday. Have the voters of Taxachusetts finally had enough? Will the voters of Taxachusetts again fire "the shot heard around the world?"

We are living in interesting times!



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[hcjilson]

coakley 5 to 1

[rbaker]

I'm not a gambling man but if you are right I'll kiss your wrinkly old a$$ and give you ten minutes to draw a crowd. Photos will be available on OptiBoard for a $10.00 contribution to The Shriner s Burn Center in Boston.
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[hcjilson]

Better check the Globe headline today before making that official!.......:):):)

[DragonLensmanWV]

Hmmm, isn't Mass where the Original tea baggers were from?
These Liberal Upstarts nowadays claiming to be tea baggers!!

[rbaker]

I like this guy. He seems to have the stones to take on the Chicago Machine.

"Surging GOP Senate candidate Scott Brown yesterday warned President Obama to “stay away” from the Bay State during his roiling race against Democratic rival Martha Coakley and not to interfere with their intensifying battle in the campaign’s final days.

“He should stay away and let Martha and I discuss the issues one on one,” Brown said. “The machine is coming out of the woodwork to get her elected. They’re bringing in outsiders, and we don’t need them.”

Coakley’s campaign showed signs of panic as they scrambled to get a last-minute appearance by Obama to bolster their effort before Tuesday’s election."

[rbaker]

Better check the Globe headline today before making that official!.......:):):)

Also from the Boston Globe that same day; "Patriots . . . Unbeatable! Especially remarkable since the only reason that anyone reads the Globe these days is for the sports writers.
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[opticianbart]

Hmmm, isn't Mass where the Original tea baggers were from?
These Liberal Upstarts nowadays claiming to be tea baggers!!

You know, if the people who came up with that name (tea baggers) had been familier with computer games they NEVER would have used that term....

[hcjilson]

I get a kick out of Scott Brown saying this, " “The machine is coming out of the woodwork to get her elected. They’re bringing in outsiders, and we don’t need them.”

Where does he think the money's coming from for his latest campaign?? You can bet someone from RNC floated more than a couple of bucks to support Brown, and I heard McCain on one of those ads this AM, so the Republicans are bringing in outsiders. Fact is both candidates are hacks. The guy that made the most sense is the Libertarian. He REALLY has no chance in this! too bad........If Coakly and Brown are the best Massachusetts could do for candidates, this commonwealth is in serious trouble........OOPS!......... We are!

[rbaker]

If Coakly and Brown are the best Massachusetts could do for candidates, this commonwealth is in serious trouble........OOPS!......... We are!

No argument from me there although I do think that Scott may be a small ray of sunshine here in the Commonwealth. The real problem is Deval Patrick, Barny Frank, John Kerry and the rest of the liberals that are running us poor tax payers into the ground. It has to stop somewhere.
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[DragonLensmanWV]

No argument from me there although I do think that Scott may be a small ray of sunshine here in the Commonwealth. The real problem is Deval Patrick, Barny Frank, John Kerry and the rest of the liberals that are running us poor tax payers into the ground. It has to stop somewhere.
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Gee, you sound just like us liberals when we were complaining about President Bush and the conservatives running the country into the ground and debt. It has to stop somewhere.

[rbaker]

I have been complaining since 1955 when I first began paying State and Federal Income Tax. I am an equal opportunity scrooge.

[Jana Lewis]

I get a kick out of Scott Brown saying this, " “The machine is coming out of the woodwork to get her elected. They’re bringing in outsiders, and we don’t need them.”

Where does he think the money's coming from for his latest campaign?? You can bet someone from RNC floated more than a couple of bucks to support Brown, and I heard McCain on one of those ads this AM, so the Republicans are bringing in outsiders. Fact is both candidates are hacks. The guy that made the most sense is the Libertarian. He REALLY has no chance in this! too bad........If Coakly and Brown are the best Massachusetts could do for candidates, this commonwealth is in serious trouble........OOPS!......... We are!

Just gave a week ago to the DLC for Coakly. :bbg:

[hcjilson]

WBZ in Boston just announced that polling shows Brown 5 pts ahead of Coakly. Bear in mind that a week ago Coakly was 20 points ahead. This has to be a phenomenal comback if it's true. Tues will tell.

PS I'm voting for health care reform and with Brown, there's no hope of that, even though I don't particularly like the candidate I'm voting for.

[hcjilson]

The white house just announced that the President will be in MA sometime over the weekend to campaign for Coakley. Looks like the Dems are bringing out the big guns.
After what I've seen on TV re: the earthquake, it really doesn't seem that important now. What a disaster!

[Uncle Fester]

If Coakley loses an election Harry J could have won, a century from now political pundits will still be holding up her "campaign" as an example of how not to run.

Like my Doc says- "She makes Dukakis look outgoing and charismatic!"

Now will Rush stop whining that Independents are really Democrats in denial?:D

[hcjilson]

If it weren't for the health care stance, I would be backing him too. This AM's Cape Cod Times came out for Brown today, which is MAJOR in Ted Kennedy's home town.They, like me, have the same concerns about the health care stance of Brown, but they said rather than put a "Party rubber stamp" in place they would prefer someone who can think independently. Easy for them to sweep health care reform under the rug they don't vote and the outcome of the election won't affect the paper- but I can't do it!

[rbaker]

If it weren't for the health care stance, I would be backing him too. This AM's Cape Cod Times came out for Brown today, which is MAJOR in Ted Kennedy's home town.They, like me, have the same concerns about the health care stance of Brown, but they said rather than put a "Party rubber stamp" in place they would prefer someone who can think independently. Easy for them to sweep health care reform under the rug they don't vote and the outcome of the election won't affect the paper- but I can't do it!

We already have Universal Health Care in Massachusetts. Why are you so concerned? Do you want two Universal Health Care plans? Are you not happy with the one that is in place? Or, do you have altruistic motives and wish to expand the Massachusetts plan to the whole country, the world, the galaxy?

At least with the Massachusetts plan we Massachusetts residents can vote with our feet and leave the state. If we have a National plan where can we run to; Canada? Mexico?

Have you noticed the budget deficit in Massachusetts? Have you noticed the unemployment in Massachusetts? Have you seen the increase in state fees and the reduction in services? Have you been following the new tax proposals?

We simply cant afford to spend any more money. We are broke! What will it take for this irrefutable fact to sink in?
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[obxeyeguy]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...in_mass_climb/


"more years of data needed" :hammer:

[hcjilson]

Dick,
I had penned a rather articulate summation blowing your "we cant afford it" apart. In order to do that I actually asked you the price of AV gas, what your real estate taxes were and where your airplane is garaged for tax purposes. Pointing out that perhaps you were not down to your last dollar and that perhaps you were taking advantage of some tax breaks from residing in 2 states. I'm not knocking it, just pointing out there may be some more money around than you think. Be that as it may, you have probably not been back here long enough to realize that we do NOT have universal health care in the commonwealth. We have a mandatory health insurance plan for SOME, not all, citizens. You can look that up if you want.
You ask why I am concerned. Good question. I have good health insurance, what am I worried about? I'm worried about the rest of us. I can see a little further than the end of my nose. I look at quality accessible health care as a right of citizenship. What the hell is wrong with that?

[Johns]

I look at quality accessible health care as a right of citizenship. What the hell is wrong with that?

Wouldn't food be even more important than healthcare? I'm not trying to be funny, but without food, we can't survive.

Why not a National Food Plan? Every meal free?

[rbaker]

Dick,
who do you think you are kidding? " We simply cant afford to spend any more money. We are broke!

I was not referring to my personal financial position, rather to the average American. I am blessed to be rather well off and able to enjoy the fruits of my labor regardless of the efforts of some to redistribute MY wealth. I bought into the American Dream a number of years age and as it promised I have been able to reap the rewards of the Capitalist System. Now, if for some reason you you have not been so blessed I feel sorry for you and your family. I however, feel no guilt.

How much is AVgas selling for these days.

$4.80 yesterday for 100LL at Worcester Regional.

How much does it take to get to Oregon where you made the money and back to Massachusetts where you avail yourself of the social services.

We usually burn about 200 gallons between Worcester, MA and Medford, Oregon although we do take an indirect route (Council Bluffs, Iowa for a few days of slots.) Not to bad for the ten hour trip. Cheaper than flying commercial and no hassle at the airport as we do not enjoy being treated like common trolls.

Unfortunately, I have not earned a dime in Oregon . . . yet. I have paid state income taxes in Massachusetts, Connecticut and California. I can't think of a single social service that I or any of my family receive from Massachusetts or any other state with the exception of Social Security and Medicare. Thankfully, we stand on our own two feet and keep our snouts out of the public trough.

What do you pay for real estate taxes on your unit? Is your plane considered MA personal property or is it taxed in Oregon.

Were getting a little personal here but like Big Joey Bonnano said, "I ain't got nuthin to hide." Property tax in Massachusetts $0.00 (but the Masonic Health Care System pays big taxes out of our $5,000.00 a month fee (which includes health care and long term life care.) Oregon real estate taxes about $1800.00 a year on the house and $3,500.00 a year on 600 acres of forest land. Hermosa Beach, California real estate taxes about $14,000.00 last year in addition to a $45,000.00 assesment for the undergrounding of power and phone lines. Of course we are ignoring corporate taxes and capital gains - a topic for another day.

The Mooney is taxed in Oregon where it was purchased as personal property to the tune of $1,250.00 a year.[/QUOTE]

We do not have universal health care in MA. We have mandatory health care for some citizens. Look it up!

I am vaguely familiar with GLM Chapter 111M, Individual Health Coverage. The term "mandatory" and "universal" are, I believe synonymous; or at least they sure smell that way too me.

So to clarify my earlier post; The average person residing in the United States can not afford in increase in fees and taxes and whatever this defective administration can dream up. We are, collectively, broke, busted, flat out destitute. Do you really believe that we can keep on spending? I am not kidding!

[hcjilson]

I see now why it took so long for you to reply last night......you were doing some research on chapter and verse. I edited my original post which had some questions you rightfully indicated were none of my business. I only wanted to point out some blatant hypocracy .I am slowing coming to the position of Judy Canty which is to post only when necessary and let some wander around in the "wilderness" as it were. I obviously am not going to change your mind about health care reform and you aren't going to change mine. Why the nation isn't embracing this concept is beyond me.

I am the first male member of my family in 4 generations who is not a fellow traveler. I am aware of the masonic movement and proud of my family's involvement and contributions to it. I must ask a mason, how does it's mission statement square with a position against Universal Health Care?
That will be my last question in this thread, I'm going to become a spectator for a while. The election is Tuesday, and the Republic will survive whomever is elected.

[Uncle Fester]

I must ask a mason, how does it's mission statement square with a position against Universal Health Care?

Harry, I'm not aware of any public stance regarding health care by any Grand Lodge.

http://www.massfreemasonry.org/

Here's where Dick lives. Subsidized by private payers like himself and all Masons in Massachusetts. It provides care from level 1 (independent and ambulatory) up to level 4 (hospital).

http://www.masonichealthsystem.org/index.tpl?ng_view=2


Our 3 tenents are Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth:
By the exercise of brotherly love we are taught to regard the whole human species as one family: the high and low rich and poor; who, as created by one Almighty Parent are to aid, support and protect each other. On this principle, Masonry unites men of every country sect and opinion, and consiliates true friendship among those who might otherwise have remained at a perpetual distance.

To relieve the distressed is a duty incumbent on all men, but particularly on Masons, who profess to be linked together by an indissoluble chain of sincere affection. To soothe the unhappy, sympathize with their misfortunes, compassionate their miseries, and restore peace to their troubled minds, is the grand aim we have in view. On this basis we form our friendships and establish our connections.

Truth is a divine attribute, and the foundation of every virtue. To be good and true is the first lesson we are taught in Masonry. On this theme we contemplate, and by its dictates endeavor to regulate our conduct. Hence while influenced by this principle, hypocrisy and deceit are unknown among us; sincerity and plain dealing distinguish us, and the heart and tongue join in promoting each other's welfare and rejoicing in each others prosperity.

[hcjilson]

Please don't get me wrong here, I love the masons, the Shriner's and the OES.I even went steady with a Rainbow Girl! I was making reference to how the mission of Freemasonry differ's substantially from Dick's position (as stated) with regard to Universal Health Care. Dick is a mason which is an assumption on my part, but I think necessary to live in the Masonic Retirement facility in Charlton MA. I don't hold this against anyone. I just can't reconcile the position.

The mission of Freemasonry is a wonderful statement and a blueprint on how to live life.

Ps for those who may not know it, the mission of Freemasonry is:
"


The mission of Freemasonry is to promote a way of life that binds like-minded men in a world-wide brotherhood that transcends all social, cultural, ethnic, educational and religious differences by teaching the universal principles of Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth; and by the outward expression of these, through fellowship, compassion and concern, to find ways in which to serve God, family, country, neighbors and self.