View Poll Results: How do you feel about formal education?

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  • Formal Education would beneficial if it were optional.

    4 11.43%
  • Formal Education should be mandatory.

    30 85.71%
  • I don't believe Opticians need Formal Education.

    0 0%
  • I don't know.

    1 2.86%
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Thread: Formal Education

  1. #1
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    Post Formal Education

    Quoted from the NFOS Website at http://nfos.org/ :
    At the grass roots level, there is a growing awareness that education, certification, cooperation, and licensure are the critical components to build the Opticianry profession. Our vision is that Opticianry will serve the public as the recognized profession delivering post-refractive eyecare that provides optimum visual performance and eye safety in the new millenium.
    Looking back at past OptiBoard threads there seems to be a general agreement that Opticianry needs some form of National standard. Would formal education be a first step? How do you feel about formal education? Do you think it should be mandatory?

  2. #2
    Master OptiBoarder MVEYES's Avatar
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    Exclamation My opinion

    How can we deal with the issues before us in our profession whithout formal education as a mandatory requirement? When you discuss the patients needs in the eyewear or contact lens they will select, shouldn't you be educated through a formal education institution to have any validity to your explanation? Otherwise why shouldn't that patient take their neighbors advise over yours?
    Analogy: Over the years I've put ice on my ankle if I twisted it and it would swell. The ice helped releive the pain. Do I consider myself able to advise others? NO!!! I have not gone to medical school to understand the procedures for properly caring for illnesses that occur.

    Our PROFESSION is not just running a cash register or pulling patient information! We have a lot of technical information and activities that we must be proficient in completing. Understanding optics (physics and math), explanation of corrective lenses to the patient (biology and psychology) and creating an atmosphere for patient returns (business) are all good reasons for formal education. Those who oppose us are not looking out for the patients best interest. They see only the cheap labor force being removed and their financial bottom line being diminished. What hippocrits!



    Jerry
    The mighty oak tree was once a little nut that held its ground

  3. #3
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    Well, this post has recieved 84 views so far and I figure about six of them are mine. 13 votes out of 84; how are we doing on the numbers pro-formal ed anyone. (Translated: I am not the world's greatest statistician.)

  4. #4
    Master OptiBoarder MVEYES's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Jo

    I didn't notice any against formal education.



    Jerry
    The mighty oak tree was once a little nut that held its ground

  5. #5
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    That's a good sign. If I asked this question a year or two ago I am sure the results would have been alot different.

    I am surprised by the results so far. I live in a state with the benefit of an accredited Ophthalmic Design and Dispensing Program at Middlesex College. I know not everyone has Opticianry Programs in their states. Either we need to work at getting accredited programs in more local colleges or we need to take a serious look at the distance learning programs available.

    Does anyone have enrollment information for either local colleges or for those taking part in distance degrees? Is enrollment up over previous years?

  6. #6
    RETIRED JRS's Avatar
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    Well Jo, 13 votes out of 84 views runs about 15+% in active participation. However, if you minus out the number of repetitive views (you for sure and me at least 3 times), we arrive at a "voter turnout" of about 20%. Pretty much mimics political voter turnout. Many look, few get involved.

    Laurie, Florida Laurie, is a great source for your distance learning questions.
    J. R. Smith


  7. #7
    Master OptiBoarder MVEYES's Avatar
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    Question What will it take

    Wouldn't this be a great mission for OAA , NAO and CLSA to collaborate and create an education network via distance learning " e-college" or at established institutions? I'll bet that there would be great support from the state organizations on this one.



    Jerry
    The mighty oak tree was once a little nut that held its ground

  8. #8
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    Jerry,

    I believe that is what the NFOS, National Federation of Opticianry Schools, is trying to do. I think the OAA and NAO supports their efforts. I am not sure about how it is all pulling together or what they are doing to share the concept of formal ed.

  9. #9
    Master OptiBoarder MVEYES's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Jo

    What can the individual state organizations do to help NFOS in this quest?






    Jerry
    The mighty oak tree was once a little nut that held its ground

  10. #10
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    Why Jerry, what a good question ; )

    Thanks for asking Jo,

    Our enrollment here in Florida has tripled because of distance learning. Around the country, the few schools involved with distance ed (Durham Technical College, Jay Sargeant Reynolds College and DeKalb Technical Institute) all report higher numbers.

    We are new at distance learning, so for now, we are only focusing on Florida, not nationally.

    However, two brand new opticianry programs are opening up (one in Vermont, one in Hawaii) because of the distance learning option. Bricks and mortor is becoming very costly. I envision alot of satelite programs with an all purpose lab using less space and more computers becoming a trend.

    How can state societies help?

    Help us (NFOS) identify community colleges or universities that also offer AA and AS degrees in your area.

    Once we have two contact people, an optical person who would become the full time instructor/preceptor (hired by the college) and the Division Dean of Health Sciences, we will take it from there!

    Eddie DeGennaro is the dean of health sciences at J. Sargeant Reynold's, and he will communicate mostly with the college administrators. I'll act as a friend/mentor to the new college. The big thing the instructor needs to know: the materials for the AS degree is not a turn-key operation. The person will put in countless hours making it work the first couple of years.

    We are offerring our entire degree program to all NFOS members...there is no charge for this. Any regionally accredited college can join. Our mission is to help facilitate the opening of new opticianry programs around the country . We believe that this will do alot to help elevate our profession.

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder MVEYES's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Laurie

    If you go to our website: OAO.ORG there is a link to the schools in Ohio. Scott Caroll is the person to contact. We would love to have distance learning a reality in our state.


    :D Jerry
    The mighty oak tree was once a little nut that held its ground

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder MVEYES's Avatar
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    Question Anyone

    Is ABO/NCLE behind formal education?




    :bbg: Jerry
    The mighty oak tree was once a little nut that held its ground

  13. #13
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    MV Eyes

    The ABO/NCLE is behind . . . period!

    Never have I ever seen an allied health care profession continue to serve the public with no mandatory education requirement.
    Not even self impossed.
    Gotta stop.
    They're laughing at us, guys.
    We gotta get with the program. San Jacinto College was looking for an instructor. AA Degree minimum requirement. I qualify, but sort of busy on another project.
    The point is . . .
    The point is . . .
    Not even a 2 year degree anywhere in the Houston Area.
    Holy Moly . . . and we want doctors to respect and support us.

    GIVE ME A BREAK!

    There are those amongst us who don't have the degree, but sure to heck qualify. We need to work on work experience qualifications, specialty certification and stuff. So, "the doctors" won't have more respect for an 18 year old high school kid who takes COT courses on a 6 month program than a few years as an optician.

    Where's my Pepcid!

  14. #14
    Master OptiBoarder MVEYES's Avatar
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    Question Alan

    No one said that the value of experience was not equivalent to the education from a two year course of study. I have 27 years experience as an Optician. My educational degrees is not in Opticianry. I think our profession needs to start focusing on education as an entry requirement for our profession. Without it we have no stand with the legislatures in our respective states and we can be EASILY replaced according to the retail merchants with individuals willing to apprentice. Education does not diminish experience. Don't look at it as a threat.




    Jerry
    The mighty oak tree was once a little nut that held its ground

  15. #15
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    MV Eyes

    I guess I wrote my statement incorrectly. I am not threatened. I encourage the consideration of work experience towards a degree. Too many people deserve the degree and have accumulated the knowledge base that could easily qualify them for much if not all of a degree. But, I am not aware of any school conferring a degree that allows an individual to "challenge the exam."

    I've got 35 years into this, an AA and BS.
    I have an enormous amount of respect for several of the people on this board and know that some do not have a degree, yet qualify for it.

  16. #16
    Master OptiBoarder MVEYES's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Alan

    You are right. As a matter of fact one of my employees (associate) has no degrees and has 24 years experience in my office and I consider her far and above more knowledgeable and respected then many of the degreed employees I have had in my office. I take nothing away from the individuals in our field who have contributed to the excellence of our profession. I only speak of the need for a standard in our profession. How does it make you feel to have an Optometrist or Ophthalmologist hire a person who has been a receptionist and refer to them as an optician? That action belittles your hard earned talents and doesn't give you the credibitlity you deserve with the general public. That was my point in this thread. Not to belittle the self educated leaders and professionals of our field.

    :shiner: Jerry:)
    The mighty oak tree was once a little nut that held its ground

  17. #17
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    MVEyes

    I only speak of the need for a standard in our profession.
    That statement is extremely powerful. And, with it comes the need to determine who in the profession of opticianry should set the standards, design some form of enforcement, be identified truly as an optician and not as an ancillary or peripheral worker. And, it should definitely not be someone who will sacrifice opticians to satisfy anyone else. No one will step up to the plate and say who should be an apprentice, who should be licensed by education, etc. It has been left to optometry to control legislation and it will remain that way as long as we continue to let the fox guard the chicken house. It is equally as important for all of us to face the reality that our only ally is the patient or customer who ultimately has the power of the purse and the power of public opinion. It is the public who, when they learn of the politics between opticianry and optometry who will say....that's enough. Doctor, you do your thing and, optician, you do your thing. But, we can't allow optometry or even the new breed of technicians (COT, etc who will someday have a sronger lobby than us) to be known (and already are) better than opticians.
    I am referring to the incredible lack of public relations we do and how we allow "members" of our own craft to argue us out of public relations as was done in an attempt a few months ago.
    We also need to stop saying education should be acquired and start saying education is a must, because if you don't show the degree or the certification, you are NOT an optician. And, you should go back to selling garden tools at Walmart. There should be only one doorway to opticianry and it should NOT be the doorway from one department of a discount store to another to the optical. It should be the doorway from the school to the doorway of the employer.

    Noone should ever be allowed to adjust a pair of glasses without something hanging on the wall besides the employers ink jet wallpaper.

    Education is the right of passage and public relations is the right to announce it. We are so passive we are drowning in our own apathy. That's it. I'm done. Back to work. Have a nice day.

  18. #18
    Master OptiBoarder MVEYES's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Alan

    I hope you aren't done! This issue should not be done until we all speak and tell our State Associations and National Associations that we want them to make as part of their goals the marketing ideas you have expressed. We need more then what a lobbyist can do for us we need public EXPOSURE! We are separate from COT's who are assistants to the Docs. We are the "pharmacist" of the optical world. That is an important concept that the public needs to understand.

    Alan you and I are on the same wavelength. Now it is time to make sure that others in our profession agree and as a group do something about it!


    :bbg: Jerry
    The mighty oak tree was once a little nut that held its ground

  19. #19
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Thanks . . .

    It's good to know that those thoughts are shared.
    An attempt was made many months ago to organiza a communications based group, but there was so much division of thought and arguments over what needed to be done thatnit became a still birth.

    I will support any attmpt you make to do anything in that direction. But, no longer have the time to attempt any form of leadership. I encourage you to step up to the plate and carry the ball. There are many who will do the same, I'm confident.

    I'll be happy to share notes through email at:

    specsupport@ev1.net

    Haven't figured out how to make that a link. Sorry.

    Alan

  20. #20
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, it's difficult to "tell" your state and national associations what you want done if you're not a member, and most Opticians out there are NOT members of anything other than the human race.

    Richard, Alan and Jerry, I'm with you guys on this, but from my perspective as an active OAV and OAA member, these discussions are proving fruitless and frustrating.

    We could be a force to be reckoned with, but remain content to have other professions and corporate entities define us to the public. We need a healthy dose of self-respect and that is only going to happen when we respect ourselves enough see post-secondary formal education as a necessity as opposed to a nicety.
    Waiting for ABO-NCLE to change it's minimum requirements is pointless. No one is going to hurt that cash cow.

    Why not utilize the research available from NFOS, survey your own areas and then use the information to approach the local community college and start a program? It doesn't have to begin as an AS, we started our program in Northern Virginia with a 26 credit hour certificate program. After 4 years, we'll have our AS in Technical Studies degree beginning with the Fall 2002 semester.

    It can be done. But it takes perseverence and dedication.

  21. #21
    Optical Educator
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    Well said, Judy

    The only way to make change is to get involved with your state organization and work through the system that is already in place.

    Whining from the outside does nothing but bore people.

    : )

    Laurie

  22. #22
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Hi, Judy

    . . .these discussions are proving fruitless and frustrating.
    You can sure hurt a guy. You are right. Fruitless. Right. Not gonna work. Let's go have a drink.

    Set up a school?

    The Community College near me just started a school. 99% optometric studies. Technical? Hah, hah, hah.

    I studied in Germany at 2 schools. What I have forgotten about technique a lot of people will never learn. Not boasting. Dont understand what it will take to create an optical school that isn't a modified COT program. I'm changing my name to Carl Zeiss. But, then, someone there will say . . . but, do you have a degree? Studied at Metzler. Good enough? No..... response was "what's that?"

    A friend studied at Otto Krause in Argentina. Incredible school. Impeccable credentials. Local yocals said: "Argentina? It happened in Rio?"
    Mark Shupnick created a school in New York that had more respect than any other school around. Not so much anymore.

    Something is wrong here.
    If we can't respect the great ones, maybe we don't deserve to go on or have little to go on with.
    Our foundation is very weak.
    The public relations I speak of applies internally also. Too many of us believe the Walmart Academy of Vision is the end all. Why go to school when Wally World certifies you?
    We need to redefine, reengineer, and reposition.

    Right Now!

  23. #23
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Alan,
    Who's on the advisory board at the college? We had Optometrists on ours, so we called it Vision Care Services, but the reality is that the OD's wouldn't support it either. Too many of them were not willing to pay for well trained Optometric Techs either, so that part of the program died a quiet death. We're now all Opticianry students. Perhaps you can take a place on your advisory board and start to influence the curriculum and marketing of the program.

  24. #24
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    You guessed it, Judy

    It's all optometric . . ,.
    Right down to the little punctum plug!

    Opticians?

    They're still laughing.

  25. #25
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    I'm sorry

    I didn't respectfully respond to your posting.
    I would consider sitting on the advisory board. But, knowing who is on it currently tells me that, as there are no opticians on it currently, my presence would be about as welcommed as Bin Ladin in the Bronx!
    Yes, I believe a change is possible . . .
    But, if Lenscrafters can say: "Are you lucky enough to need glasses?"
    We can say: "Opticians are your glasses best friend."

    But, you know what really gripes me?

    The ones who have the most to gain by promoting opticianry as a service point, seem to exploit opticianry as a profession.

    Lenscrafters, EyeMasters, WalMart, Cole, so on and so forth. They could say it, and don't . Because, they won't hire the good ones. Or, should I say, fire the good ones when they get over $12.00/hour. One foot on a rock....the other on a bannana peel or something.

    Wait a minute......maybe that's all we're worth and we're a legend in our own minds. Maybe that's the real truth. WHAT DO YOU THINK? Maybe WE should transfer to the garden center and show them how its really done. Yeh, that's the ticket! I mean we get treated like "it", maybe we should sell "it"!

    We need to sell optical cookies and do optical car washes and pay our own way. (I hope you understand what I'm really saying here).

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