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Thread: Hypothetical situation

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    Hypothetical situation

    I have a strictly hypothetical situation and it goes as follows . . .say, for instance, a large major optical chain has decided to do away with in-store finishing equipment (i.e. edger). And, in the process, have raised quotas on certain add-on items (i.e., Anti reflect coating, Progressives, etc.). Also, most of the major promotions in middle management have been handed to non-optical individuals. In addition, an entry-level training program set up for non-optical employees has been incorporated; which, by the way, is a basic way of teaching just enough optical knowledge to make them think they are smarter than they are, or make them dangerous. With giving up the in-store finishing, this leaves the optical departments dependent upon turnaround time from a centrally located lab. But given this strictly hypothetical situation, where do you think this company is focusing on the optical versus retail sales business? Would they be focusing on forsaking talented optical people in lieu of having regular sales staff at reduced payroll? Making the optical like a fast-food restaurant, ala carte? Any comments would be welcomed.

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    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    Well (hypothetically speaking, of course), it sounds like this operation is simply being run as a business. As with most businesses, I'm sure the primary goal is to turn a profit on the dollars invested by the ownership into infrastructure, employees, and resellable goods.

    Does this focus on turning a profit necessarily mean the products turned out by this company will be of impeccable quality? No. Does a focus on profitability necessarily provide a great work environment filled with competent and happy employees? Certainly not. One has to realize that a businessperson simply may not care- as long as the operation is turning an acceptable profit.

    True, it could be argued that the highest profits might be obtained by producing only quality products sold by quality people (since you will build a clientele, retain employees, and have less remakes). However, its also true that you can make more than a few bucks punching out adequate products sold by barely adequate people (since few people are loyal to a place of business anymore, employees tend to go wherever they'll get the most money, and if you see enough of the masses and use economic products, remakes aren't so expensive).

    Anyway (and this is a hypothetical "anyway"), if you happen to be hypothetically working for such a hypothetical establishment, you may wish to create a hypothetical resume and start submitting it to other hypothetical companies!

    Sorry, I don't mean to be less than sympathetic for anyone caught in such a hypothetical situation, but complaining about it seems to me to be a waste of time. Businesses exist to make money (if they don't, they are better called a "non-profit organization" or a "charity" instead of a "business"). It just seems that once I remember that the main emphasis of capitalism is going to be on "capital," business always seems to make more sense!
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
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    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Oh, Uhhhh, wellllll . . . . . .

    I don't know that I fully subscribe to the "capital" view as much as Pete. Certainly, he has some good points there.
    But, after reading what you wrote about your hypothetical situation , all I can say is . . .

    If Sam were alive, I could hear him say:

    "Give that man a raise. Promote him. Move him to Division 1. Give him his own store. Do a big "Ugh" in the morning meeting. Yeh . . . that's my man!!!!!"

    That's why Exxon/Mobile ain't the biggest in the world anymore.

    Someplace, somewhere, someone, still believes in caring and will take a little less doing it.

    That's my take.

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    Bad address email on file Darris Chambless's Avatar
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    Hello to all,

    I'm in agreement with Pete but do have a few things to add. The hardest thing to teach an Optician (the trained and well educated ones) is that you have to sell it before you can use your skills as an Optician. The minimally trained or untrained tend to pick up on this concept quite well however, which is why they tend to be sought out by the companies. It's easier to train them to sell than to untrain someone in techincals of opticianry.

    Opticians too often work in the mode of "I will sell the patient only that which I think they need." This is the wrong kind of thinking. Sell everything that is for sale and take the personal bias out of the picture. It doesn't mean you care any less about what you're doing or about the patient, but if you don't sell it to them there may not be enough money to keep the doors open and then you won't have a job.

    Another thing that has amazed me through the years are those that demand more pay for their skills as an Optician yet won't "sell" to make this possible or feasible. You can create your own environment if you so desire. You create your own value as well as your own job in the company. Everywhere that I've worked I've been able to do whatever I wanted because I was able to do what I said I would do. I made money, a lot of money, for others and therefore had the run of the place.

    Hypothetically speaking if I had the choice of hiring a young girl that was sweet, easy on the eyes, could flirt, had fashion sense and could be taught just enough about optical to speak somewhat intelligently to the patients or a techinically trained Optician I'd hire the girl. Why? Is it because I'm letcherous? Nope. It's because she's gonna have the highest grossing sales especially among male clientel. Men will buy whatever she's selling and women will be able to relate to her and also buy whatever she suggests. The same holds true with a ncie looking young man that has the "gift of gab". Women will flock to him and men will relate if he shares similar intrests and can carry on conversation. It's a fact that one may not like to hear about but it's true.

    I use to be part owner in a bar. A friend of mine came in one day and said that I could increase my sales if I hire a "good lookin'" woman to tend bar or wait on tables. Guess what happened? Yup, the young lady we hired to tend bar (who hardly knew how) increased business in two ways 1) She created "regulars" that came in soley to talk to her and drink all evening and 2) Word of mouth about the "good lookin" bartender at our bar. It may sound petty. It may sound disgusting. It may seem sexist, but it works and that's business. As the saying goes "No one ever went into business to lose money."

    As to taking out the finishing lab and greatly restricting the necessity of an Opticians skills...Well, here's another take on that. Money is not made in the finish lab. Money is "spent" in the finish lab. Money is spent on labor, lenses, remakes, repair items, tools, edgers (and up keep on such), plastic bags, etc. Money is made on the sales floor so if the cost of keeping a finish lab can be taken out of the mix you will increase profits. As to turn around time, if you know how to sell this won't be a problem. Stay away from the "Glasses in an hour" mentality and you'll be fine.

    There's more to this than meets the Opticians eye. Approach it from a business aspect and it's a whole different ball game and yet still feasible and profitable. If we didn't do so many drill mount frames I would not have a finish lab and would simply have an outside lab do everything. By doing that it would free up more of my time to sell stuff which is where I make my money.

    Take care,

    Darris C.

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    Bad address email on file stephanie's Avatar
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    Wink

    Hmmmm Mud who hypothetically are you talking about? Let me see if I can remember OH YEA used to work there and must say been there done that. I already know of their plan to get rid of the lab...gee that is a creative idea...now we can get rid of some overhead too! Don't get me wrong I loved my job there but I know who gets the promotions too. The little girl who doesn't do anything works little to nothing rolls her eyes at the customers but hey she must be a valuable employee!! Everyone ought to do so little and keep a job. Sorry I am going off it just makes me so mad that these people are out there making good employees quit while they continue to basically run off customers. I think it is really sad. I probably would have stayed with the company but not if I tell them what is happening they agree with me and do nothing about it. I guess it is everywhere though....can't wait to open my own dispensary so everything lives up to my standards instead of someone else's. Some of the standards I have been exposed to just don't cut it.

    Steph

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    Master OptiBoarder sandeepgoodbole's Avatar
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    HMM>>Sorry, Derris..

    Originally posted by Darris Chambless
    Hello to all,
    You can create your own environment if you so desire. You create your own value as I use to be part owner in a bar. A friend of mine came in one day and said that I could increase my sales if I hire a "good lookin'" woman to tend bar or wait on tables. Guess what happened? Yup, the young lady we hired to tend bar (who hardly knew how) increased business in two ways 1) She created "regulars" that came in soley to talk to her and drink all evening and 2) Word of mouth about the "good lookin" bartender at our bar. It may sound petty. It may sound disgusting. It may seem sexist, but it works and that's business. As the saying goes "No one ever went into business to lose money."
    There's more to this than meets the Opticians eye. Approach it from a business aspect and it's a whole different ball game and yet still feasible and profitable. If we didn't do so many drill mount frames I would not have a finish lab and would simply have an outside lab do everything. By doing that it would free up more of my time to sell stuff which is where I make my money.
    Take care,
    Darris C.
    Darris,
    I am not happy to listen to you saying "use Sex as USP to sell anything especially Spexs!!.."
    The larger question is, will you run a Brothel just because you get more Profits? I am afraid, people have freedom to do that.
    Ok one should try to maximise profits, but Money cannot be the Aim of Human life.It should be understood always as a means to lead a good life. To lead a good life, you strictly need good Money not dirty money.Of course, again, that's choice. But certainly not hypothatical !
    I prefer to have a professional, simple and "No Sex Appealing" environment around my Shop.

  7. #7
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    I prefer to have a professional, simple and "No Sex Appealing" environment around my Shop.
    Sandeep,
    I enjoy working in a professional environment as well. However, as Darris correctly points out, you can have an extremely professional environment, very competent staff, and great product- but if you haven't taken enough money in at the end of the month, you won't be in business very long.

    I'm as philosophical as the next guy, and I agree that "Money cannot be the aim of Human Life." However, money is the aim of the life of a business- otherwise, that business dies. My point is- if you don't like how business is conducted where you are, move!

    I won't say I don't mean to harp, because I do- so I won't lie. In America, we operate on a system called capitalism. The biggest motivators of the American Business World are profits, supply v. demand, and beating the competition.

    The people I've met from other countries usually find some criticism to make of our businesses. Comments like...
    "Your work week is too long and you should have universal mandatory health coverage for all employees."

    "I can't believe employees can just be laid off or have their hours cut at the whim of their employer."

    "In our country, there is a mandatory bonus at the end of the year for all employees."

    You know, it would be great to have things like more vacation, guaranteed hours, health coverage, etc... It makes me wonder, though, why my relatives from Sweden always buy tons of stuff while they are here, and why tax rates in countries like the UK are ridiculously high. I suppose I work in a country where (if capitalism is left unfettered by over-regulation) profits come before people, and that's quite sombering. However, I also live in a country where I have 45 kinds of bread to choose from at the local grocery store, I can toss out my elected representatives if they **** me off, and I can afford to drive a ridiculously too-large gas guzzling vehicle across 3,000 of American countryside if I so desire because gasoline isn't $4.00 a gallon! Given the plusses and minuses, I'll take the whole package as is...

    Enter into all this the poor Optician who "Only wants to do what is best for my patient and no more." If you want to open your own business and can make it work that way, go for it (and some have done so quite successfully)! However, if you are working for someone else who has put up their money to start a business, accept the fact that they have the right to make a profit in a manner they see fit (within the bounds of our laws, naturally). Don't feed me this **** about how "terrible" the work environment is- come on, if you had the opportunity to make more money somewhere else, you'd jump ship faster than I can say John Jacob Jingle Heimer-Schmidt! Point being, if the "terrible, awful, horrible" place that employs you ran things exactly the way you desire- but in so doing went broke- you'd move on. However, the poor sucker who owns the business would be stuck with a bankruptcy, liquidation, etc.

    Anyway, that's my rant. In America, sex sells, youth sells, image sells... We may not like it, but that's the reality and one can either accept it and earn a living- or resist it and earn a living (which can be an honorable, but harder, thing to do). However, complaining about the "injustice of it all," makes no sense to me, because- in capitalism- profits are justice (for the most part). Don't like it? Go live in Sweden or some socialist, monarchist, or communist country... That's why they call this the "Land of the Free-" you can choose to do what you want to do, where you want to do it.

    I'm feeling like I've been a bit harsh now- and I certainly do not like to be so... I'm sure Darris will soon show up and post something that makes this rant look extremely moderate (that's one of his many roles here on OptiBoard, making me look like a moderate!).
    :D

    BTW, anyone who has met Darris (and partner, Chad) has to realize they aren't using "sex appeal" to sell eyewear! :D :bbg: :p ;)
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
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    Bad address email on file Darris Chambless's Avatar
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    Re: HMM>>Sorry, Derris..

    "Darris,
    I am not happy to listen to you saying "use Sex as USP to sell anything especially Spexs!!.."

    You don't have to be and I'm not asking you to. It is however a very effective tool that is used in most marketing and sales over here AND it works very well. Being professional only doesn't always feed the kitty so one does what one must.

    "The larger question is, will you run a Brothel just because you get more Profits?"

    If it were legal to do so, sure. But as with anything I do I wouldn't force anyone to do anything against their will. They would make money and so would I IF I were so inclined to be a pimp.

    "I am afraid, people have freedom to do that."

    That is the difference between us and other countries. We have freedoms that others don't. Like Pete said, I think I'll keep it just the way it is.

    "Ok one should try to maximise profits, but Money cannot be the Aim of Human life.It should be understood always as a means to lead a good life. To lead a good life, you strictly need good Money not dirty money.Of course, again, that's choice. But certainly not hypothatical !"

    Who said anything about the money being "dirty"? It is your opinion that it is such but you're wrong. First no one is opening a brothel (it's illegal) nor was anyone talking about hiring prostitutes to sell glasses. If that's what you think of you ladies that are nice looking, flirty and fashionable then you do have some serious issues but not with me ;)

    "I prefer to have a professional, simple and "No Sex Appealing" environment around my Shop."

    That is an admirable position to take where your work place is concerned not to mention my office is no less professional than any other based on whom I choose to hire. Chad and myself are the ones that make the office professional, but if we choose to hire a person based on their ability to draw attention to themselves and sell product (which we do ourselves) we will do so. I think it a bit harsh for you to make the assertion that we're opening a brothel however, but think what you will and as the old saying goes "Ignorance is bliss."

    I'm sorry you were offended by the truth.

    Take care,

    Darris C.

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    Master OptiBoarder sandeepgoodbole's Avatar
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    Re: Re: HMM>>Sorry, Derris..

    Originally posted by Darris Chambless
    "Darris,
    I am not happy to listen to you saying "use Sex as USP to sell anything especially Spexs!!.."

    You don't have to be and I'm not asking you to. It is however a very effective tool that is used in most marketing and sales over here AND it works very well. Being professional only doesn't always feed the kitty so one does what one must.

    "The larger question is, will you run a Brothel just because you get more Profits?"

    If it were legal to do so, sure. But as with anything I do I wouldn't force anyone to do anything against their will. They would make money and so would I IF I were so inclined to be a pimp.

    "I am afraid, people have freedom to do that."

    That is the difference between us and other countries. We have freedoms that others don't. Like Pete said, I think I'll keep it just the way it is.

    "Ok one should try to maximise profits, but Money cannot be the Aim of Human life.It should be understood always as a means to lead a good life. To lead a good life, you strictly need good Money not dirty money.Of course, again, that's choice. But certainly not hypothatical !"

    Who said anything about the money being "dirty"? It is your opinion that it is such but you're wrong. First no one is opening a brothel (it's illegal) nor was anyone talking about hiring prostitutes to sell glasses. If that's what you think of you ladies that are nice looking, flirty and fashionable then you do have some serious issues but not with me ;)

    "I prefer to have a professional, simple and "No Sex Appealing" environment around my Shop."

    That is an admirable position to take where your work place is concerned not to mention my office is no less professional than any other based on whom I choose to hire. Chad and myself are the ones that make the office professional, but if we choose to hire a person based on their ability to draw attention to themselves and sell product (which we do ourselves) we will do so. I think it a bit harsh for you to make the assertion that we're opening a brothel however, but think what you will and as the old saying goes "Ignorance is bliss."

    I'm sorry you were offended by the truth.

    Take care,

    Darris C.
    Any Extreme , may it be freedom , is harmful.
    This is an open forum and nobody asks anybody to feel good or bad and evrybody is free to express what are may be perceptions from his angels.
    Let me assure you I did never intend to hurt you or anybody.
    Let me tell a about a few things over here.
    Looking nice and fashionable is OK.But..
    Flurting in India, is absolulty taken as Sex expression and if some body tries to do it at a Business place, certainly will be a big big issue. Probabaly he will have to wind up very next hour!!
    And we are free enough to think like that. Even using men/ Women bodies with little clothes in advertisements creats lot of
    thunders.Though the product might get sold, most people dislike
    that. Please try to understand, the word "you", I used in that Brothel sentence was not directed specifically to you, but it is a general assersetion. I do not know how to explain it. Hence, really I beg your pardon for I have hurt you.
    As far as drawing attaintion is concerned there are personalities which are attractive to everybody,irrespectve of their sex.
    So, to attract men put women and vice a versa is not that necessory and we avoid doing that in India not only in our business, but, most businesses. Lastly, money getting dirty is a Moral Cultural Concept over here. The path must be equally payus and clean as the goal. May it be harder no problems
    ( Rather a "Clean" path has no other alternative but to be full of thorns and stones) . And I belive that. You call me wrong is your opinion.
    Amen!
    Sandeep

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    Bad address email on file John R's Avatar
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    Exclamation sex sells ??

    Now how about this view of things.
    Us men like to deal with a woman when buying certain things, take glasses who's eyes would you rather gaze into while they take you OC's (OK some women might prefer a hunnky fella).. Male or female.
    The female prefers to be delt with by a female as they feel less threatned.. So what do you see in shops, far more female sales staff than men, I would bet also that the men there are either Opticians or Do's.
    I'm not knocking the females doing the job as some are highly skilled at what they do. But as others have said you run a buissness to make MONEY if you dont you go bust....

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    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    Sandeep,
    In your culture, there is obviously a different set of rules for conducting business. So, I can understand your incredulity and distaste for the way business is conducted here. From your perspective, you probably wouldn't want to conduct business or advertising like "we" do (of course, calling a place a "brothel" simply because it may hire attractive young women as sales people is a bit of a stretch).

    When you come to visit the US, I might suggest you forego eating at Hooters (a restaurant whose business is built on the atmosphere created by having young women as waitresses dressed in skimpy shorts and t-shirts). I think this is an interesting conversation because it shows that there are diverse cultures around the world (with different priorities).

    As for money, you have to understand that the "American Dream" is sort of built around materialism and accumulating wealth (house, two cars, white pickett fence, etc.). At the root of it all, there is something more (namely, each person is free to express themselves however s/he feels and anyone can be a success if s/he works hard enough). Without a doubt, people's pursuit of the "Dream" can create some ugliness (don't know if you've heard about a company named Enron, but basically it is an example of capitalism run amuck).

    My problem is with Americans who don't seem to understand how capitalism works. As an employer, it amazes me how employees always seem to think their place of business exists solely to provide for them and their wants. Everyone wants as large a piece of the pie as they can get, but when the company owner fights to get his/her piece as well, they get almost offended! All I wanted to express is that businesses are in business to make money. That's why it irks me sooooo much to see people gripe about WalMart or Luxottica or LensCrafters... If you've lived in America all your life and can't understand the concept behind these companies, I don't know what to say!

    Out of curiosity, what is the key to acheiving a healthy profit in India? What is considered a "good" profit margin? I don't think any of this from anyone is intended to be offensive- just a good debate on the nature of doing business in our respective countries.

    Shalom
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
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    Bad address email on file Darris Chambless's Avatar
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    Hello Sandee,

    "Any Extreme , may it be freedom , is harmful."

    I'll still take freedom anyday.

    "This is an open forum and nobody asks anybody to feel good or bad and evrybody is free to express what are may be perceptions from his angels."

    I too have angels that watch over me. They help guide what I do and what I say.

    "Let me assure you I did never intend to hurt you or anybody."

    You didn't.

    "Let me tell a about a few things over here.
    Looking nice and fashionable is OK.But..
    Flurting in India, is absolulty taken as Sex expression and if some body tries to do it at a Business place, certainly will be a big big issue. Probabaly he will have to wind up very next hour!!"

    If that is the thinking in your country then so be it, but it's a little extreme for my tastes.

    "And we are free enough to think like that."

    Actually that's not what I would consider to be free. That is what I would consider to be another forcing their will upon me and taking my freedoms away.

    "Even using men/ Women bodies with little clothes in advertisements creats lot of
    thunders.Though the product might get sold, most people dislike
    that."

    And yet they buy the products in many cases because of the advertising that they detest?

    "Please try to understand, the word "you", I used in that Brothel sentence was not directed specifically to you, but it is a general assersetion."

    So a general assertion toward who?

    "I do not know how to explain it. Hence, really I beg your pardon for I have hurt you."

    Trust me on this one. You can't hurt me :) nor did you.

    "As far as drawing attaintion is concerned there are personalities which are attractive to everybody,irrespectve of their sex."

    True but you can't put a personality on a billboard or in a printed advertisement. It's not possible.

    "So, to attract men put women and vice a versa is not that necessory and we avoid doing that in India not only in our business, but, most businesses."

    If you've never tried it then you wouldn't know if would be beneficial of necessary to increase sales. If your office tried it it my become even more profitable.

    "Lastly, money getting dirty is a Moral Cultural Concept over here. The path must be equally payus and clean as the goal. May it be harder no problems
    ( Rather a "Clean" path has no other alternative but to be full of thorns and stones)"

    I assume I'm misunderstanding but what it sounds like you're saying is that if we are trying to make a profit without doing anything outside of US law but it isn't "Clean" according to your standards, then we are unclean in our virtues? I do hope I'm reading this wrong.

    "You call me wrong is your opinion.
    Amen!
    Sandeep"

    Actually my use of the words "you're wrong" were the incorrect words to use. Let me rephrase them to "You've completely misunderstood the point."

    Take care,

    Darris C.

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    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Sandee

    Hi,
    We never met, and I am impressed with your views. Certainly they are worthy of considerable respect.
    I am reminded of some comments made by a good friend of mine. He is from Bombay. He is also a former Vice President of Marketing for several companies. I am reminded of a conversation we had some time ago wherein I asked if some of the brands of clothing we have in the United States are also sold in India. He enthusiastically stated he knew many were. One of which was Calvin Klein jeans.
    Interstestingly, reference was made to how the brand got recognition there. He made reference to advertising done many years ago with a young lady/actress named Brook Shields. His comment was everybody understands what she meant when the caption under the ad of her modelling the jeans said: "Nothing is between me and my Calvin Klein jeans."

    The fine line between cultures seems to easily be crossed in many ways in the commercial arena. I'm really not sure that the issue of "sex" in retail, whether its optical or Calvin Klein jeans, has much to do with morality. Frankly, I think it takes on a life of its own in the marketplace and attaching morals may turn out to be less relevent than we think.

    By the way . . . "Coach" is a brand of leather goods from India, I believe . . . but you'd never think so after seeing the ad in Playboy magazine!

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    Master OptiBoarder sandeepgoodbole's Avatar
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    Trying to explain..

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Darris Chambless
    [B]Hello Sandee,

    "And we are free enough to think like that."

    Actually that's not what I would consider to be free. That is what I would consider to be another forcing their will upon me and taking my freedoms away.

    How come sticking to what some think makes other feel an enchrochment on his freedom? We co exist with what ever differences exist.

    "Even using men/ Women bodies with little clothes in advertisements creats lot of
    thunders.Though the product might get sold, most people dislike
    that."
    And yet they buy the products in many cases because of the advertising that they detest?
    No. They are carried away with the Ad.. That's we call cultural invasion of West in our country. Secondly, no body is absolutly isolated from other cultures these days. There is a churning of concepts and cultures. Again, liking an Ad and liking a product are two different things. West like ads are targeted towards the people who are fanatic to follow what US or UK does.But these are in few numbers mainly in Metros only.
    I am trying to explain the cultural difference with another example.
    In India, when you say A woman, it means a Mother. I have been told that it's not so in US.

    Irony is, some of my recently migrated to US friends are"MORE Americans" when they come here than real Americans whom (I felt just like my maternal / parental uncles and aunties), have hosted as a Rotarian.!!


    "Please try to understand, the word "you", I used in that Brothel sentence was not directed specifically to you, but it is a general assersetion."
    So a general assertion toward who?
    It was like in a proverb . Again I am falling short. I should have said if Should some one.. or should we.. instead of" would you"

    "I do not know how to explain it. Hence, really I beg your pardon for I have hurt you."

    Trust me on this one. You can't hurt me :) nor did you.
    Thanks for your great heart ! I was restless all night yesterday.

    "As far as drawing attaintion is concerned there are personalities which are attractive to everybody,irrespectve of their sex."
    True but you can't put a personality on a billboard or in a printed advertisement. It's not possible.
    That's right.

    "So, to attract men put women and vice a versa is not that necessory and we avoid doing that in India not only in our business, but, most businesses."
    If you've never tried it then you wouldn't know if would be beneficial of necessary to increase sales. If your office tried it it my become even more profitable.
    That goes against our culture here. So, I will have to come there !!

    "Lastly, money getting dirty is a Moral Cultural Concept over here. The path must be equally payus and clean as the goal. May it be harder no problems
    ( Rather a "Clean" path has no other alternative but to be full of thorns and stones)"

    I assume I'm misunderstanding but what it sounds like you're saying is that if we are trying to make a profit without doing anything outside of US law but it isn't "Clean" according to your standards, then we are unclean in our virtues? I do hope I'm reading this wrong.
    The definations change as the Nations. What may be a virtue here may not essentially be every where and we coexist happily.Talking about sex openly is considered offensive and indecent here. But that is a virtue in US as parents have no problems giving sex education to the children by them selves. Here, to introduce sex education at school level causes Earth Quek ! Parents explaining !! Wait for 2 more generations!

    "Actually my use of the words "you're wrong" were the incorrect words to use. Let me rephrase them to "You've completely misunderstood the point."
    OK. Thanks a lot ! BTW, ! At the end, concepts, cultures and values are very much subjective and hence,ALL HYPOTHETICAL but real within their own horizon!

    Take care,

    Sandeep

  15. #15
    Bad address email on file Darris Chambless's Avatar
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    Hello again Sandeep,

    I do wish to clear up a couple of things for you about the way things work in our country and my original point regarding hiring a young lady to sell frames.

    "Talking about sex openly is considered offensive and indecent here. But that is a virtue in US as parents have no problems giving sex education to the children by them selves. Here, to introduce sex education at school level causes Earth Quek !"

    Actually sex education beyond the scientific aspect in public schools is not a virtue in the US. To study anatomical function is one thing but to many here in the states the school has no business and no right to teach our children the act of having sex, the use of condoms or any other form of birth control. It is the parents job to educate the child because the parents will also teach values where the schools cannot and will not.

    Case in point when I was in highschool we had a week taught in Biology called "It" week because so many were offended by the teachers calling it "sex." Most people thought it was a week of sex education but what it turned out to be was the science of the reproductive system, it's structures and functions. We were not shown pornography or anything even vaguely resembling it. I think the closest we got to seeing any nudity was the (please excuse the terminology) cut away picture of the male sex organ that showed all the internal structures. One of the main focuses of the class was to teach and warn students the ill effects that chemical and drug exposure had on unborn children and to teach them taht actions have concsequences. But the acts thereof were not taught which is a far cry from what the public schools are doing today.

    And finally "Sex sells" may actually be more of a misnomer. The people aren't selling sex anymore than Brook Shields was on the poster. Brook wasn't selling herself sexually to men for money. The same is true for hiring a pretty, young lady to sell frames. She can sell products well because she can relate to all aspects of the human condition without really trying. Men are goofy anyway and whether in the US or in India men will always (bar none) gravitate toward and want to talk to and listen to pretty ladies. Women will gravitate toward pretty ladies as well because all women feel that they look as good if not better than this young lady and so they will be able to share fashion tips and be friends. BUT the one thing not being done is the direct sale of sexual favors. She is someone that most people just want to be around and because of that they can sell like nobodies business. An average looking guy in a white lab coat and a pocket protector just won't illicit the same response :)

    If these practices are not used in your country and if that is the way it is then so be it. The point I would like to make to you is that just because a person or a culture doesn't like something or doesn't do the same thing does not make it morally wrong or even dirty for that matter. It is simply a different way of doing things. No one touched anyone inappropriately. No one offered themselves for money. No one forcibly did anything to anyone else. No one removed any clothing at any time during the sale of optical goods. It is something that is learned and if one learns to do it well it is as innocent as any other technique used in sales.

    I want you to know, I'm not upset with you, I'm not mad about anything you've said, but I did want you to understand my position on the subject. I'm not a pimp :)

    Take care,

    Darris C.

  16. #16
    Master OptiBoarder sandeepgoodbole's Avatar
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    Thumbs up I Do..!!

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Darris Chambless
    B]Hello again Sandeep,
    I want you to know, I'm not upset with you, I'm not mad about anything you've said, but I did want you to understand my position on the subject. I'm not a pimp :)
    Derris,
    I learned a lot of things and would read ( copying in Word Pad) these threads , (also, Pete's and Alan's too ) again , to have a closer understanding of your way of thinking.

    Thanks!
    Sandeep

    :cheers:

  17. #17
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    Interestingly enough I surely appreciate the initial response to my post. All of the responses seemed thoughtful and quiet frankly they helped me gain a much better perspective on the hypothetical situation. But now it has evolved into another topic entirely. So I MUST comment. Certainly, as stated, sex does sell, just pick up a magazine. But in my personal/professional experience I feel it is not the most important criteria in receiving service. Personally I want the best product/service and overall treatment. And professionally, I want what is best for me. With that being said, I really don't care who renders these services as long as I feel taken care of. In addition, in our profession, qualifications and experience is MUCH more important than gender and appearance. And in todays world gender and appearance should not be an advantage/disadvantage. But unfortunately in some cases it is.

  18. #18
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    After all I've said, it will come as a shock that I agree with you completely on these points, Slim...

    Besides money and profits, you DO have to feel proud about how you conduct your business. Although we certainly don't use sex (or gimmicks) to sell glasses in our office (however, come to think of it, that one Alissa Milano ad for Candies frames was pretty attractive), I'm not about to gripe with those who do (business IS business). I guess we just have to figure out how to package professionalism and quality in a way that attracts people more than cheapness and glitz!

    My point was simply that "all's fair in love, war, and capitalism." Whoever was in the hypothetical situation you described has my best wishes (and maybe my suggestion that s/he find somewhere they're more comfortable practicing in to work!).
    :)

    This thread has got me thinking, though... Glasses dispensed by topless Opticians, it might just work... On second thought, some ideas are best left untried (bet you could charge $250 for Kenmarks in an Optical like that, though).
    ;)
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Vice President Professional Services
    Essilor of America

    http://linkedin.com/in/pete-hanlin-72a3a74

  19. #19
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Pete Hanlin
    This thread has got me thinking, though... Glasses dispensed by topless Opticians,
    Peepers by Hooters!?!


    OptiBoard Administrator
    ----
    OptiBoard has been proudly serving the Eyecare Community since 1995.

  20. #20
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    Ha, Ha.................

    I love Hooters optical!

  21. #21
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Question women

    Darris, i am going to partially disagree with you on this one. Actually you are pimping the lady, as many people do, except that your doing it legally.
    .....First and foremost lets be truthful, we all know why most men gravitate towards the pretty lady and all of a sudden they act very nice. Never know when theres a possibility that something more might come out of it, and most guys are going to take a shot.
    .....Now you know as well as i know if it was just a matter of hiring a female, you would hire the one with the best qualifications and not the one with the biggest hooters. Problem is you are hiring the good looking one, because she has a cute little tush and a big pair of hooters. This also makes you feel more manly and gives you something nice to look at when times are slow.
    .....I have nothing against women in the work place, as long as they dress like and act like professionals. However too many times over the years, i have seen women come into the work place looking like they belonged on the corner of 5th ave. and broadway. Yeh Darris , they sell glasses, but when i have to listen to joe jerk, when he comes in , tell me he,d rather have the good looking chic wait on him, somethings wrong.
    .....As far as your ascertation that a good looking women will out sell a man is pure bull. She may outsell the ones that are so so, but give me anyone who knows what there talking about and is friendly with the customers and i.ll come out ahead.
    .....Tell me Darris, do you think your good looking chic could outsell someone like AL ?

  22. #22
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    Hmmmmm...

    I am having trouble beleiving that I just sat here and read all of the "back and forth" between us good ol' Americans and our friend from the Middle East. Everyone had good valid points but it sure sounded like a good old fashioned P*ssing Contest to me. That's not what I come here for.

    As an adult,
    MjWhite

  23. #23
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Question ????

    :D Perhaps Mr. White, you could point out to all of us, just what your expectations are.

  24. #24
    Bad address email on file Darris Chambless's Avatar
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    Hello harry,

    I believe you've missed the point. The situation was if you were to basically reduce a lab into nothing more than a dispensary for the sale of glasses (which many companies are doing) who would be more conducive to business? The young girl or the guy in the white lab coat?

    The first misconception is that this "girl" has no brain and is incapable of putting a scentence together. That's not what I said. I said if I had the choice in this type of setting I would hire the young girl and give her enough knowledge to speak intelligently to the patients. There's a big difference there.

    The second misconception is that I'm making her dress up like a tramp. I never said that and she would dress dressed professionally of course, but in an attractive way as she saw fit.

    The third misconception is that I would hire her because she had large breasts. I don't think I ever even mentioned that word anywhere. What I believe I said was:

    "Hypothetically speaking if I had the choice of hiring a young girl that was sweet, easy on the eyes, could flirt, had fashion sense and could be taught just enough about optical to speak somewhat intelligently to the patients or a techinically trained Optician I'd hire the girl."

    Yup, that is exactly what I said ;)

    The forth misconception is that I'm pimping this girl out for sales. Nope. I'm doing what in sales and marketing is called "Creating a draw." Will you get those in that will hit on the young lady? Sure, but if she's smart she can sell those guys even more without giving out a single phone number. It's not that difficult to do. If this is classified as pimping by some then so be it and I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you want to increase the sales you not only do what will increase sales on the floor but what will increase traffic as well. If a pretty young girl does that then you do it. The guy in the white lab coat is more conducive to the technical aspects of an office that has either a doctor or at least a finish lab. Will he sell more? I'd like to see it.

    My over all point is that a technically trained optician can and will miss the sales potential of a patient in the office. A person not technically trained will look at the sales potential and learn what they need to know from a technical aspect to dazzle the buying "customer."

    "Problem is you are hiring the good looking one, because she has a cute little tush and a big pair of hooters. This also makes you feel more manly and gives you something nice to look at when times are slow." And this is a problem because...? :) Actually for myself I wouldn't do that because I'm gorgeous as it is and no one (not even a woman) can hold a candle to me :)

    ". Yeh Darris , they sell glasses, but when i have to listen to joe jerk, when he comes in , tell me he,d rather have the good looking chic wait on him, somethings wrong." What if she sells joe jerk more stuff? Is there still something wrong? Plus you're not the one having to deal with joe jerk so I'm failing to see where you're going with this. As I said earlier remember I'm talking about a "retail only" setting and why companies do this kind of thing hypothetically and in reality. I don't make the rules, I just live by them like everyone else. No one has to impliment these ideas and most wouldn't know how even if they wanted to, but it is done all the time and in many cases it is effective.

    Would I hire the better educated? It truly depends on the situation and what would work best in that situation. "Qualified" can mean a number of different things but if a young girl can sell higher volume with less education in optics then the word "qualified" becomes subjective.

    Anyway it's nice talking to you.

    Take care,

    Darris C.

    PS. mj, you're basing your assessment on a misunderstanding. We on the board try to find out where the differences are, discuss them and learn a lot of things we didn't know before about each other. Would you care to join in and do the same? ;)

    Darris "As an adults Mentor" C.

  25. #25
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Oh, Mr. mjwhite

    Thank you very little!
    This is a lively reparte which has been reduced to a "P - - - -ing" match?
    Thanks, a lot, Pal, but no thanks.
    These people are, by far, no dummies, and deserve more respect than that which you are giving.
    I undervalue your statements alot!

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