Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: Why tint for night driving ?

  1. #1
    OptiBoard Professional skirk1975's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    California
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    185

    Question Why tint for night driving ?

    I know people want tints for night driving. Mainly yellow. WHY!!! I am of the opinion and impression that ANY tint at all will ultimately dull visibility. Am I not correct in this? If I am not, then tell me why exactly yellow is so great and will increase and decrease visibility at night? I need to know more on this subject after all these years.

    :angry:

  2. #2
    OptiWizard Yeap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Malaysia
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    349
    Yellow tint mainly to enhance the contrast.. to be precise, it is not advice to use it at normal night driving.. depend on the environment condition.. use it during foggy condition will surely help due to the poor contrast environment causing by the fog. drive at night on the well lighten up city street is really a bad idea to use the yellow tint.
    Yeap


  3. #3
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,864
    Blog Entries
    2
    ANY tint will DECREASE contrast sensitivity.

    Particularly in low light.

    PERIOD.

    It is generally NOT adviseable - so you are thinking correctly.


    Ian on the boards here is a good one to chat with if you're looking for good info on tinting etc.

    Anti glare lenses are FAR better for accurate transmission of light, and proper focus of the ray pattern - possibly the greatest reason for *perceived* glare...unfocused light rays.

    Best of luck! :cheers:

  4. #4
    What's up? drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    5,848
    Uilleann +1
    Yeap -1/2. Yellow filters do not increase contrast under ANY conditions.

  5. #5
    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    USSA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    12,172
    Blog Entries
    24

    I thought this was the Tiger Woods joke thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Uilleann +1
    Yeap -1/2. Yellow filters do not increase contrast under ANY conditions.

    People just don't believe you when you tell them that!:hammer:
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

  6. #6
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter DragonLensmanWV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Greatest Nation
    Occupation
    Optical Retail
    Posts
    7,635
    Yeah, it's like prescribing a plano/w AR for night driving. :hammer::hammer:
    DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
    "There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."

  7. #7
    Master OptiBoarder Striderswife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    USA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    934
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonLensmanWV View Post
    Yeah, it's like prescribing a plano/w AR for night driving. :hammer::hammer:

    I used to work in a clinic where the Dr's (MD's) would prescribe that for nearly all their post-Lasik patients, with the expectation that they were going to have halo effects after surgery. Anything the Dr. says, the patient will take as gospel.
    It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

  8. #8
    The Man, The Myth, The Legend OptiBoard Gold Supporter Fezz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    In a van, down by the river
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    12,938
    Blog Entries
    9
    I would check into what Ian Jordan has to say on the subject.

    Here is a start!

    http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...=night+driving

    http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...driving&page=2

  9. #9
    OptiBoard Professional skirk1975's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    California
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    185
    So what does this exactly mean? That when the pupil is fully open (dilated) is allows all light in and increased light of the "blue" spectrum and the yellow supposed to combat this or people perceive it too?

  10. #10
    Bad address email on file
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North America
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    266
    Well, people expect shooter glasses to increase contrast during the day while they're out and about, so they also expect it to work at night.

    I just wish they would let me know when/where they were driving at night, so I could stay out of the way!

  11. #11
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,864
    Blog Entries
    2
    See - here's the thing folks:

    ANY TINT REDUCES CONTRAST. PERIOD.

    Daytime. Nighttime. Anytime.

    Reduce light to the eye = reduced contrast.

    Also, bear in mind that the vast majority of people who think they want this yellow "night driving" tint are seniors. They have already lost as much as 2/3 of their contrast sensitivity they had when they were in their teens and 20's. You want to reduce that even further...why??

    Just keep me the hell off the sidewalks when they're out driving please! :shiner:

    hehehe

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Seaford, NY USA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    5,146
    See, there are two ways of increasing contrast for the human vision system:

    You can reduce the "black" end, i.e., make darker, or

    You can increase the "white" end, i.e., make brighter.

    Yellow tints, of the proper density, may reduce overall light, but the human eye's response is not linear, especially with respect to color wavelength. So yellow may reduce peak white sensitivity (i.e., glare) less, than it makes the black (dark) areas at night seem blacker.

    Voila - More "perceived" contrast and less glare.

    Those who are videophiles know where I'm taking this discussion, but I am open to other thoughts from anyone here.

    Discussion?

    Barry

  13. #13
    OptiBoard Novice
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    boynton beach, fl
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    7

    Its really the eyes

    While 'tis true that any tint will decrease the available light, that doesn't take peoples' psychology into effect. We know that a lens in yellow will highlight the peak of the eye's spectral response curve. It will also decrease the amount of blue light that is bouncing around our visual targets and periphery, reducing this glare component. When we are younger this is fairly unimportant. But when we are dealling with the geriatric crowd this becomes more of an issue. It is probable that a very light tint in yellow will help these drivers on urban roads (basically where they mostly live, anyway) by icreasing their contrast sensitivity. Of course, any tint used at night on rural, unlit roads is a no-no! The major help for all of our patients, young and old, is to make sure that the inside of the windshield is ablolutely, spotlessly clean and streak free.

  14. #14
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Occupation
    Optical Wholesale Lab (other positions)
    Posts
    2,898
    Thanks Barry,
    My post exactly. If any tint reduced contrast then wearing sunglasses for driving would be stupid. Most contrast tests are done on white and black, not in mutli-color, so they may not represent real life senarios. I have a copy of a study done in Australia by the governmet (highest sunglass requirements in the world) that shows that in a chart with blue letters, yellow lenses improve tested contrast over no lenses.

    I used to live in the formally very foggy California Central Valley (global warming and drought have reduced the fog in recent years), and it would be so thick that you could open your car door and barely see the white line on the side of the road. I made tons of special lenses for the California Highway Patrol for these white-out conditions. I used a Brown Polar A, added both Yellow and Red tint to make it Orange and added A/R. Ugly, but you could see up to 20 times farther in the fog. The Highway Patrol was almost lined up outside my office. Its strange when 10 cops in uniform walk in and ask for you, let me tell you.

    My net forumula is: when blue light conditions exist, reducing that blue light at a faster rate than other spectrums will improve contrast even with a darker lens. The above lens had a final LT of only 45%, yet contrast increased almost 10 fold. You could make out objects that were otherwise invisable.

    Anyone remember the old pre-Luxottica Revo's when the lenses were made by Coherant? Incredible contrast. If anyone Skis, you know how a terrible those mogols you can't see are are, you hit them like you never saw them. Well, in glare/blue light conditions contrast drops to almost zero. I tested many lenses in these conditions and Revo's brought out the most detail.

    It doesnt make any sense to say that any tint reduces contrast, and then put on sunglasses. Contrast tests need to be done in color to be fully accurate of real life conditions.

    Do your own tests on snow in the sun with Amber lenses, gray lenses, no lenses in both polarized and non-polarized. Look for the most detail. I guarantee you will see more detail (ie contrast) with the Amber Polarized lens than anything else. Blame the shortwave blue, and enjoy the rest of the day with your new sunglasses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    See, there are two ways of increasing contrast for the human vision system:

    You can reduce the "black" end, i.e., make darker, or

    You can increase the "white" end, i.e., make brighter.

    Yellow tints, of the proper density, may reduce overall light, but the human eye's response is not linear, especially with respect to color wavelength. So yellow may reduce peak white sensitivity (i.e., glare) less, than it makes the black (dark) areas at night seem blacker.

    Voila - More "perceived" contrast and less glare.

    Those who are videophiles know where I'm taking this discussion, but I am open to other thoughts from anyone here.

    Discussion?

    Barry
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy ~Benjamin Franklin

  15. #15
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,864
    Blog Entries
    2
    You're right - to a point.

    However, the original poster querried specifically regarding night driving. Short wave blue radiation is a non factor given the daylight scenario's you're suggesting. And while I would personally agree that a brown base (and to a lesser extent rose) offers what I personally feel to be greatly enhanced vision in daylight (and I SO know what you mean about the good ol' REAL Rēvo's from back in the day!), the night driving equation is very very different.

    Ian? Comments?

    Best! :cheers::cheers:

  16. #16
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Oakland, California
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,456
    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post

    Anyone remember the old pre-Luxottica Revo's when the lenses were made by Coherant? Incredible contrast. If anyone Skis, you know how a terrible those mogols you can't see are are, you hit them like you never saw them. Well, in glare/blue light conditions contrast drops to almost zero. I tested many lenses in these conditions and Revo's brought out the most detail.
    Those lenses used a multilayer coating system to produce destructive interference (kind of like A/R only different); they could contour the filtration curve beautifully. Talk about residual color! I liked the orange best. Even with Revo's, a grey lens on snow on an overcast day would have you eating your knees.
    Last edited by finefocus; 12-07-2009 at 07:07 PM. Reason: correct OB-style spelling

  17. #17
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,864
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rēvo never actually *made* a grey lens however to the best of my knowledge. Did they? A sort of G-15 in their old Traveler series was the closest I ever recall. Have you seen what Mitch is up to these days? Pretty cool stuff - almost out of Back to the Future!

    http://www.ruda.com/

    A shame the Oakley vultures had to come along and poison both the frame AND lens designs. Way to go Lux. Kinda like ripping out the hand stitched leather seat of a pristine '39 Rolls just to wipe one's nether regions after a large meal of chili and cabbage. It just should never have been done!

    Progress...:hammer::hammer::hammer:

  18. #18
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Oakland, California
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,456
    Wasn't the one that looked blue a grey color? Maybe my memory is slipping.

  19. #19
    OptiBoard Professional
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    In the America
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    104
    I'm firmly in the "any tint for night driving is dangerous" camp.

  20. #20
    OptiBoard Professional
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Cambridge UK
    Occupation
    Other Eyecare-Related Field
    Posts
    116

    should tints be used

    Visual responses in low illuminance are not as simple as just increasing lens transmission. It affects Rx (usually a myopic shift - although some people become hyperopic), magnocellular processing, contrast sensitivity and 3rd order aberrations.

    These should ALL be addressed by optical professionals - sadly they are usually ignored.

    As for tints - why yellow? I wear a specific (not quite yellow) tint for night driving ( together with a lens specification which takes into account all other effects) - the difference in acuity, contrast sensitivity, edge and movement detection is remarkable. "Starring" of headlights (a columnated light source) is eliminated, ability to see in the distance is enhanced and my safety is much greater.

    Whilst the obvious answer is to increase transmission at night - it is often poor advice. In fact here in the UK it can be a criminal offence to drive with tinted glases. That leaves me in a profesional dilemma - to give people measurably better vision - or to comply with a law which can be shown to be wrong!

    Oh - and I do have the instrumentation to test for these effects - so I can say with confidence that the effects are not imagined.

    I am your honour guilty of wanting to see better!

  21. #21
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments OptiBoard Gold Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Back in the at work mode.
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    17,958
    Blog Entries
    3

    Redhot Jumper 2 very different opinions....................

    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    ANY tint will DECREASE contrast sensitivity.
    Particularly in low light.

    PERIOD.

    It is generally NOT adviseable - so you are thinking correctly.

    Ian on the boards here is a good one to chat with if you're looking for good info on tinting etc.

    Anti glare lenses are FAR better for accurate transmission of light, and proper focus of the ray pattern - possibly the greatest reason for *perceived* glare...unfocused light rays.
    Here we have a very strong opinion without any explanations on why and how. Basically just the old hat of promoting AR.




    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jordan View Post

    These should ALL be addressed by optical professionals - sadly they are usually ignored.

    As for tints - why yellow? I wear a specific (not quite yellow) tint for night driving ( together with a lens specification which takes into account all other effects) - the difference in acuity, contrast sensitivity, edge and movement detection is remarkable. "Starring" of headlights (a columnated light source) is eliminated, ability to see in the distance is enhanced and my safety is much greater. .................

    Oh - and I do have the instrumentation to test for these effects - so I can say with confidence that the effects are not imagined.

    I am your honour guilty of wanting to see better!
    Here is the opposite opinion with a lot of backup, like years of research and experience. I would suggest you to look at the following 2 websites to see which statement has more validity. Ian Jordan is a well known research optician.

    http://www.read-eye.connectfree.co.uk/index.htm

    http://www.norville-opticians.co.uk/orthoscopics.asp


    I have to side with Ian on this one.
    Chris Ryser
    ________________________________________
    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  22. #22
    Bad address email on file
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    London
    Occupation
    Optical Retail
    Posts
    1
    I've had tint on all of my cars, and have noticed no difference in my ability to drive at night. You can wear special driving glasses while retaining the night driving use of both eyes.

  23. #23
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cape Cod, Hyannis, MA. USA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    7,560
    Tinted windshields are never tinted in a drivers line of sight! ANY tint on a spectacle lens reduces the amount of light able to pass through the lens. Obviously this does not refer to AR treated lenses which let in more light than untreated clear lenses.

    I am reminded of the notice I received last year from the USGA regarding a new "Leaf" rule for lost golf balls during the fall season. (For those of you who may not be aware, your golf ball can become lost in or under the leaves) Anyway, the USGA provided a link to the page containing the "new leaf rule". When you clicked on it, you got the message

    "There is no leaf rule"

    I say the same thing about tinted lenses for night driving.

    There is no tint for night driving!
    "Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
    Lord Byron

    Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
    www.capecodphotoalbum.com

  24. #24
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments OptiBoard Gold Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Back in the at work mode.
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    17,958
    Blog Entries
    3

    Redhot Jumper forget bedroom rule.................

    Quote Originally Posted by hcjilson View Post

    I am reminded of the notice I received last year from the USGA regarding a new "Leaf" rule for lost golf balls during the fall season. (For those of you who may not be aware, your golf ball can become lost in or under the leaves) Anyway, the USGA provided a link to the page containing the "new leaf rule".
    I wish they had not forgotten to also make a bedroom rule, where these golf balls can end up year round and not only in fall. One just missed this morning and hit the shutter. :D
    Chris Ryser
    ________________________________________
    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  25. #25
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,864
    Blog Entries
    2
    Oh yes - and everyone...MAKE SURE YOU BUY ALL YOUR NIGHT DRIVING TINTS FROM CHRIS! *snicker* Cause 'ims night driving tints is da bestest! Nobody makes or markets dem betta here on de ol Optiboard dan 'im!

    Hope sales are up for ya buddy! :p

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Does AR really cause multiple images for night driving?
    By eyevay in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 09-23-2010, 02:36 PM
  2. night driving
    By fundy in forum Canadian Discussion Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-11-2009, 10:15 PM
  3. Eyewear and Night Driving
    By sharpstick777 in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 05-09-2009, 12:36 PM
  4. Help! Night Driving Glare Problems.....
    By skirk1975 in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-27-2004, 07:59 PM
  5. Night Driving Rx's
    By Jo in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 11-06-2003, 01:03 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OptiBoard is proudly sponsored by:
FEA Industries, Younger Optics, Carl Zeiss Vision, Vision Systems, Inc. and Chemistrie Eyewear