Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Anyone have experience with this digital pupilometer?

  1. #1
    Bad address email on file
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Occupation
    Optical Retail
    Posts
    37

    Anyone have experience with this digital pupilometer?


  2. #2
    OptiWizard Yeap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Malaysia
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    352
    Never see a thing like this before here. anyhow, currently what we using now is something similar from essilor.

  3. #3
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Seaford, NY USA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    6,008
    The specs for this pupilometer are terrific for initiating a discussion of the assumed accuracy & precision of taking pupillary measurements.

    Below are listed the possible errors affecting accuracy, as I see it. Please chime in with any comments or thoughts.

    1. Indication error
    2. Rounding error
    3. Parallax error:
    a. Operator not holder pupilometer "correctly"
    b. Physiological error -
    i. forehead/browbone contour of client not representative of eyeplane
    ii. Nasal bone contact point of pupilometer inconsistent with the eyewear's actual fitting position.
    4. Calibration error - seems similar to indication error, but actually is different.

    Let's look at a worse-case scenario:

    Indication error 0.5mm + rounding error 0.5mm + operator error 0.5mm + physiological error 0.5mm + calibration error 0.5mm

    Total 2.5mm possible monocularly!

    Seems to negate our industry's arguement about how PDs would be taken from an uploaded photo.

    But wait, come to think of it, if the facial plane in an uploaded photo was ensured to be orthogonal, i.e., "square-up", I thinking that, with a known size reference in the same photo, (perhaps a dime), one could postulate that, indeed, uploaded photos have the capability *of* being more accurate than conventional pupilometer readings made in person.

    I think that the method used by Feinbloom for their surgical telescopes, which is completely *subjective*, is the only really accurate way to obtain PDs.

    Thoughts? Discussion.

    Harry, shoot me down here, will you? I like goin' down in "flames":hammer:

    Barry
    Last edited by Barry Santini; 07-10-2009 at 09:15 AM.

  4. #4
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down on the Farm
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    5,810
    A picture up-loaded to the internet can not accurately;

    1. Represent how eyewear will sit on a patients nose. You can't superimpose a frame on someone's face and correctly judge if the frame will shift horizontally or vertically.

    2. Accurately account for nasal bone misalignment. This will hinder an accurate monocular measurement

    3. Determine panto, vertex, wrap, ect.

    4. Determine fixation point. ( what is the patient looking at while the picture is taken? How far away is their fixation point?)

    5. Determine posture.

    6. Determine stature.

    7. Take a specific pupilary measurements of near/intermediate.


    imho...

  5. #5
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Seaford, NY USA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    6,008
    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    A picture up-loaded to the internet can not accurately;

    1. Represent how eyewear will sit on a patients nose. You can't superimpose a frame on someone's face and correctly judge if the frame will shift horizontally or vertically.

    2. Accurately account for nasal bone misalignment. This will hinder an accurate monocular measurement

    3. Determine panto, vertex, wrap, ect.

    4. Determine fixation point. ( what is the patient looking at while the picture is taken? How far away is their fixation point?)

    5. Determine posture.

    6. Determine stature.

    7. Take a specific pupilary measurements of near/intermediate.


    imho...
    Agreed!

    But...by & large, how many pairs of eyewear are fitted with this degree of care and competance? I think this is why a statement from framesdirect.com saying it's "...more accurate..." may in fact, be true, when compared with how it's all done in the majority of cases.

    Certainly, optical24/7, *any* pupilometer will *not* factor in any of the important things you've cited.

    Yet, on the other hand, considering so many pairs of eyewear are *not* measured and fitted in the manner suggested, it's surprising how many people are apparently "satisfied" with their eyewear.

    Perhaps herein lies the secret of the internet's potential market success.

    Keep it goin'....

    Barry

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Only City in the World built over a Volcano
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    12,996
    How many of us have:
    1: Measured the monocular P.D. with a ruler?
    2: Measured the monocular P.D. with a pupillary reflective device?
    3: Measured the marks on a "dotted-up" frame?
    Done this in significant numbers on the same patients (all three for each patient). And compared the results for deviation?

    I haven't and I suspect few if any of us have.

    I did on one occasion have a group of 35 or so patient's that I measured with a pupillary reflective device. While a co-worker measured a similar amount of patients with a ruler.
    When the patient's returned to pick-up spectales we did not find over 1 mm. difference between his measurments and mine. I might mention that while we were both journeymen opticians, it was my first day to use a pupillary reflection device.

    Chip

    Chip

  7. #7
    Bad address email on file kelanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    new england
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    How many of us have:
    1: Measured the monocular P.D. with a ruler?
    2: Measured the monocular P.D. with a pupillary reflective device?
    3: Measured the marks on a "dotted-up" frame?
    Done this in significant numbers on the same patients (all three for each patient). And compared the results for deviation?

    I haven't and I suspect few if any of us have.


    Chip

    Chip
    I use both a pd stick and a pupilometer on a regular basis, the only time I have found the pd stick to be more accurate is for children. They wiggle too much!
    Last edited by kelanor; 07-13-2009 at 10:47 AM. Reason: apparently i can't read

  8. #8
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    7,482

    Ummmm...

    Has anyone answered the original question?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. essilor digital crp pupilometer
    By Verna in forum Optical Marketplace
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-24-2010, 02:15 PM
  2. pupilometer ??
    By opticanada in forum Canadian Discussion Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-20-2009, 12:55 AM
  3. I need a new pupilometer!!!
    By kelanor in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-16-2009, 03:04 PM
  4. pupilometer
    By opticanada in forum Canadian Discussion Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-31-2009, 10:38 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •