Health Care Mess...

[bob_f_aboc]

Calling "shared responsibility payments" "fines" is the BS.

Are you refering to "employer shared responsibility payments"?

So would you call the money you have to pay when you are stopped without auto insurance "shared responsibility payments" or a "fine"?

Its the same thing. Auto insurance companies got a more powerful lobby in place to require every driver to be insured on a state level. Now health insurance has gained a Congress and President to do the same thing to health care on a national level.

Where can I go to get my microchip implanted now? I don't want to wait in line once its madated.

[drk]

I love it when this happens.

David Brooks' NYT piece posts later than I do, but says the same thing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/10/op...=1&ref=opinion

[GAgal]

Where can I go to get my microchip implanted now? I don't want to wait in line once its madated.

Hey Bob! The line starts at capitol hill. I'll see you there right after I deposit my check at the socalist community bank at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

[HarryChiling]

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

Great piece on government healthcare, a high ranking PR exec for Cigna speask about the healthcare. If you have 30 minutes it's worth it.

[rdcoach5]

We pay twice per capita compared to the next country which has universal health care and we don't. WHY? One reason is the exorbitant prices we pay for drugs. Every other country negotiates a price for drug prices but we don't.Every other country pays their doctors a salary depending on number of patients seen. We pay per procedure done. Our drs. are financially encouraged to pad their testing . This is very evident in the level of pay a good insurance biller is paid.

[Comma]

We pay twice per capita compared to the next country which has universal health care and we don't. WHY? One reason is the exorbitant prices we pay for drugs. Every other country negotiates a price for drug prices but we don't.Every other country pays their doctors a salary depending on number of patients seen. We pay per procedure done. Our drs. are financially encouraged to pad their testing . This is very evident in the level of pay a good insurance biller is paid.

Very good points rdcoach5

In these countries, doctors aren't paid 1 million/year

Don't forget also that the health care system in these countries don't have PROFIT as its main objective. And insurances are not controlling the whole process (PROFIT again...)

Same procedure in Canada costs at least 10 times less than in US.
But who cares since the insurance companies pay.
But prices are rising as hell...
And your insurances costs as well...
Less and less people can afford them.

So called "socialism" may have good sides sometimes :):):)

After colonialism, sexism, racism..., lets get rid of individualism now
Freedom shouldn't lead to a mess.

[Spexvet]

When you are penalized for not joining...yeah, I'd say that's a fine.

It will be the same as driving on raods - either you can take a toll road and pay for it (pay for your employees' insurance), or you can take another route, and pay the taxes to maintain that road ("employer shared responsibility payments"). It's really just a choice.

Look, the healthcare is going on now, and the healthcare is being paid for. If my health insurance is being paid by my employer, it is not coming out of my employer's pocket - it's being paid for by those people who buy the company's products and service, by the shareholders, and by me, because I'll accept lower wages because I "don't have to pay" for my heath insurance. The healthcare for those who are uninsured and unable to pay for themselves is now paid by the taxpayers - including those employers who you're trying to protect.

In other words, we're all paying for healthcare somehow. Healthcare will continue to be paid for. This is all just about establishing who writes the actual check, and who makes how much profit.

While we're at it can I suggest that my employer do my laudry and maybe even oil chanegs on the car, that would be great.

You can negotiate for that, you know. ;)

[Johns]

If my health insurance is being paid by my employer, it is not coming out of my employer's pocket - it's being paid for by those people who buy the company's products and service, by the shareholders, and by me, because I'll accept lower wages because I "don't have to pay" for my heath insurance.

Allrighty then! Just so we know that when an employer pays for something, they're really not paying for it....

thanks for clearing that up!:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

[Spexvet]

Allrighty then! Just so we know that when an employer pays for something, they're really not paying for it....

thanks for clearing that up!:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

Any other problems I can help you with?

[k12311997]

It will be the same as driving on raods - either you can take a toll road and pay for it (pay for your employees' insurance), or you can take another route, and pay the taxes to maintain that road ("employer shared responsibility payments"). It's really just a choice.

I love your comparisons both toll and non toll roads are owned by the state and both are maintained with taxes the tolls are a revenue stream. and no I don't have a choice there are no toll roads to 98% of my yearly destinations.

[rbaker]

Not to hijack this thread (that has already been done) but it seems that we are more concerned with politics than health care. Why don't we try to put principals ahead of personalities and come to some rational conclusions.

Both of our political parties are involved in a urinating contest instead of a careful and thoughtful debate on this crucial issue. Perhaps, most damaging, is the haste that seems to be the mantra of the supporters of "universal health care." All we have to do is look at the case of mandatory health insurance in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts to see some of the results of hasty, feel good politics.

One thing is certain. We do not need to pass new federal legislaton by August, indeed, this year.

[Spexvet]

I love it when this happens.

David Brooks' NYT piece posts later than I do, but says the same thing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/10/op...=1&ref=opinion

He doesn't really address all the health insurance industry profits or the pharmaceutical industry profits.

[gmanlook]

Yes, Come to Florida...where freeloaders are Kings & Queens...no place to live? no problem, just move into a nice house with 50 of your non-english speaking buddies and the cost is just right...FREE. Gary

[optigrrl]

Honestly, the majority of the Dr's I work for have no clue about basic billing, let alone know how to navigate the labyrinth of insurance reimbursement procedures. How can you possibly assume they have the time to know if their biller understands the ins and outs as well?

We pay twice per capita compared to the next country which has universal health care and we don't. WHY? One reason is the exorbitant prices we pay for drugs. Every other country negotiates a price for drug prices but we don't.Every other country pays their doctors a salary depending on number of patients seen. We pay per procedure done. Our drs. are financially encouraged to pad their testing . This is very evident in the level of pay a good insurance biller is paid.

[optigrrl]

Look, the healthcare is going on now, and the healthcare is being paid for. If my health insurance is being paid by my employer, it is not coming out of my employer's pocket - it's being paid for by those people who buy the company's products and service, by the shareholders, and by me, because I'll accept lower wages because I "don't have to pay" for my heath insurance. The healthcare for those who are uninsured and unable to pay for themselves is now paid by the taxpayers - including those employers who you're trying to protect.

In other words, we're all paying for healthcare somehow. Healthcare will continue to be paid for. This is all just about establishing who writes the actual check, and who makes how much profit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryChiling
While we're at it can I suggest that my employer do my laudry and maybe even oil chanegs on the car, that would be great.

You can negotiate for that, you know. ;) __________________
...Just ask me...

Allrighty then! Just so we know that when an employer pays for something, they're really not paying for it....

thanks for clearing that up!:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

>>>rant mode: ON<<<

I don't believe in health insurance (let the flaming begin...) and I certainly have tried to negotiate a HIGHER salary package but - no deal!

Anyway - I pay cash for myself and my family's healthcare and no one can claim they pay for me so why should I pay for them? I have NEVER taken health benefits. Paid for my pregnancy, all surgeries, my child's immunizations, emergency room visits, broken bones, dental and everything else.

I did a spread sheet once and I still paid less with cash than I would have paying 50% of a corporate policy and deductibles all these years.

>>>rant mode: OFF<<<

[Pete Hanlin]

Address the problem rationally. Don't throw (force) the whole world onto the plan.

Johns, I'm just going to take this opportunity to agree with you 100%!

Given the costs involved (a trillion, right?), I don't understand why we need to have a "deadline" in pushing this through. The President already managed to spend a trillion on a "economic bail-out" program, could we at least wait a few months to jump into spending another trillion?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know Bush spent tons of money in Iraq- but this is a social spending program that will be in place decades after we're out of Iraq, so let's take some time and talk about this. With the kind of majorities the President has, I'm sure he should be able to get his agenda through if he takes his time- pushing it through just doesn't seem "prudent" (to borrow a phrase from the first Bush).

[GAgal]

I did a spread sheet once and I still paid less with cash than I would have paying 50% of a corporate policy and deductibles all these years.

It's amazing how much cheaper the medical practices around here that don't file insurance are compared to those that do file because they don't have to spend so much time and money on bureacratic BS