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  1. #26
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    Thumbs up

    Go Bob Go!!!! you're so right on the point I was trying to make...
    We all may work for diff. company's/practices but we should all be united under our profession and BE PROFESSIONAL. for those out there that get defensive..remember we can all learn from each other.
    Something like a troubleshooting form that Roatx developed we should consider it a helpful tool for our professional communication as a whole.:p

  2. #27
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    Hi
    Use the form. It works. I had a patient come into my place complaining about her eyeglasses. She had seen the prescribing doctor several times and was told nothing was wrong. The patient couldn't see out of her left eye. I checked both her written Rx and her glasses. Her glasses were correct. Then I trial framed the patient and found that she needed two more diopters of power. I told her that I would call her doctor and tell him what I found. This patient had only had this pair of glasses for two months. The patient was given a copy of the findings and I did suggest to the doctor that I could send this to the board. The patient had a Rx change and the glasses were remade at n/c. This doctor did thank me afterward. But it took this form to get the correction made. Trust me I have made my share of mistakes also but I will take responsibility for them and correct them. We all have to have checks and balances if not we are just like the fox guarding the hen house. We know what happens then.

    Don Price ABO/NCLE

  3. #28
    Master OptiBoarder Ginster's Avatar
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    I see your point to some exrtent Bill, you are a stand alone optical shop with no Dr.. At our office we have four Ophthalmologist, they want us to check the glasses of there patients when they have problems weather if we make them or some other company. I am all to ahppy to do so, you would not believe what I see being in an unlicensed state, it would scare you. I do not use the form, what I do is copy the Pt's rx and write a letter to the other opticial expalining my findings if something is wrong. I do address them with kindness just like the pt. I even will give my PD and seg ht. measurements but its there discression if they want to use them.
    I have built some respect from people who I havent even met the patients tell me, that is rewarding enough because when they see my letters they will use my advice and even my measurements. Im not perfect, I've made mistakes just like anyone else, but some of this stuff is really scarey. I want to see the patients that come to our practice taken care of where ever they get there eyewear. Some have insurace and we don't take it, that does'nt mean they have to suffer, If I can help, I will thats my job, thats also who I am. I've missed ROATX the last two years and it is truly my loss, I learn so much when I go and have a great time. They are a wonderful organization.

    Ginny

  4. #29
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    My Two Cents

    This is Great! I am totaly stealing this form, I am def going to use this with the next person that comes back with a prob from the local walmart (an inside sourse tells me the don't even verify scripts, let alone bench um or check for scratched)




    LOVE IT!
    A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself.
    ~Josh Billings~

  5. #30
    ABO-AC, NCLEC bob_f_aboc's Avatar
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    Use it, share it, modify it. Just make sure you fax or mail it in when its filled out.

    Thanks for helping the cause!!!
    A lack of planning on your part DOES NOT constitute an emergency on mine!

  6. #31
    Bad address email on file rounded optician's Avatar
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    Idea let's be professional

    I would suggest that if you have to send a note to a fellow optician, or to the examining Dr. why not simply put it in a sealed envelope?? Also I LOVE when Dr's write "check p.d.'s and base curves, the write an rx that is .75 diopters stronger or weaker. Bashing someone is never the answer. Just show them YOUR professionalism and maybe you'll see them next time! I've been doing this for 30 years and I find that to be the best policy!

  7. #32
    Master OptiBoarder Ginster's Avatar
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    Redhot Jumper Bob F

    I fully agree with you, some of the negative posting's here are from people who do not live in Texas, and have no Idea what we deal with. When you work in an unliciensed state, you really see alot of bad stuff, you can't help but want to do something. The pt. does have a right to know if there glasses are not right, weather or not you made them or someone else did. I do not use the form, I copy the pt.s RX from us and write a note to the optical that made the glasses with my findings asking them to PLEASE remake the lenses I thank them. I do go over this with the Pt. I do allow for ANSI tolerances but Im tellin you guys, some of this stuff is really bad. I tell the pt. to just give this to the Optical Manager in hopes that they are at least ABO Certified. Sometimes I get a phone call from the manager thanking me and some times they disagree and are angry. I tell them your dealing with peoples eye's they have to be right. Ultimately, it;s up to the Pt. what they do. So many times they tell the Pt. the RX is wrong go back to the Dr. when its the glasses. I save the Dr's alot of time and staff money when I stop the Pt. because the glasses are wrong. If I can't figure it out, or if the glasses are correct, I schedule them to be re-refracted.

    Thanks for reading, Ginny :)

  8. #33
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    I love this form! Thank you guys! We are the only privet practice in between wally and nationwide. We get problem solving Pt's all the time. I work with a lady that worked for NVI a few years. They did not even check the jobs in when they came back from the lab. I must admit I am anal. Within tolerance was never in my vocab. it must be spot on and I check everything besides BC. Except for Davis jobs, I am just happy they get it in the right frame, let alone the correct RX.

  9. #34
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    I believe a patient deserves to know 1.) if there is something wrong with their glasses, 2.) what (in layman's terms) is wrong with their glasses, and 3.) what the provider of their glasses needs to change or do differently to correct the problem. However, "over educating" a patient verbally on the problem will overload them to a point where they will be spouting off wrong information to the retailer which only discredits the patient in the long run. I think that something in writing between two knowledgable opticians is the best way to cut out putting the patient in the middle of situation in which they have no idea how to solve themselves. If someone makes something wrong, they need to own up to it and sometimes, an outside perspective is much needed when those making the glasses are inexperienced or simply unaware of properly troubleshooting.

  10. #35
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    The intiative is great. I'll surely use it when my time will come.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CME4SPECS View Post
    I suppose your intention is to belittle your competition.
    Why put the patient in the middle of it?
    They have no idea what those numbers mean. Axis prescribed 180, dispenser made 004 on that .25d cyl...WOW!!
    Perhaps you should tell the patient that there is a little discrepancy in the rx with what was prescribed and that you will report you findings to the dispenser.
    How about this...your doctor writes an rx, and patient has it filled down the street. Rx is not real good.
    Dispenser writes a letter and hands to patient to give to doctor.
    Letter says...Dear doctor, rx you wrote is NO GOOD!
    No we don't do that, do we? We have the patient go in to be re-evaluated.
    I hear you. This can be a slippery slop, but I really think (Bob, correct me if I am wrong) the intention is to show a difference between a well-trained Optician versus someone who is not. For too long we have been dumbing the "profession" down. NO research has really been done on the quality of eyewear based on qualifications of the individual doing the dispensing. This can be a valuable tool.

    Now, for the folks in the example who did not admit an error, they deserve to be embarassed. We MUST tighten up! THis is a start.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginster View Post
    I see your point to some exrtent Bill, you are a stand alone optical shop with no Dr.. At our office we have four Ophthalmologist, they want us to check the glasses of there patients when they have problems weather if we make them or some other company. I am all to ahppy to do so, you would not believe what I see being in an unlicensed state, it would scare you. I do not use the form, what I do is copy the Pt's rx and write a letter to the other opticial expalining my findings if something is wrong. I do address them with kindness just like the pt. I even will give my PD and seg ht. measurements but its there discression if they want to use them.
    I have built some respect from people who I havent even met the patients tell me, that is rewarding enough because when they see my letters they will use my advice and even my measurements. Im not perfect, I've made mistakes just like anyone else, but some of this stuff is really scarey. I want to see the patients that come to our practice taken care of where ever they get there eyewear. Some have insurace and we don't take it, that does'nt mean they have to suffer, If I can help, I will thats my job, thats also who I am. I've missed ROATX the last two years and it is truly my loss, I learn so much when I go and have a great time. They are a wonderful organization.

    Ginny
    Ginny,
    I cannot tell you the number of times clients ask me to check an Rx. The DOCTOR sent it back and claimed it was off. Upon my review, it was not off, and I wondered what they were seeing. It was not the DOCTOR at all. He was not even aware they had been referred back (can you hear it now folks, these glasses are WAY off. Take it back to those people who made them and ask them to do it right!).

    In realiity, little Susie (formerly the counter clerk at Dunkin Donuts two days earlier) read them in an auto-lenmeter........I think you get the point.

    If we are to remain a profession, we must police ourselves like all other professions do. I someone does not know what they are doing, they need to learn or go.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rounded optician View Post
    I would suggest that if you have to send a note to a fellow optician, or to the examining Dr. why not simply put it in a sealed envelope?? Also I LOVE when Dr's write "check p.d.'s and base curves, the write an rx that is .75 diopters stronger or weaker. Bashing someone is never the answer. Just show them YOUR professionalism and maybe you'll see them next time! I've been doing this for 30 years and I find that to be the best policy!

    Yes, let be professional folks. Get an education prior to calliing yuorself a professional Optician. Right now, in 27 states the ONLY requirment is a pulse, and I wonder about that often.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    More people knew what they were doing back then and gas was $0.10 a gallon, there is a lot of things I'd trade with you today for what was the case back then, but times change.

    Licensure is a way to protect the public, it's funny how we almost all agree that we need licensure but no one wants to do anything to get it, this is a TX initiative to start documenting the many cases where things go wrong and those that want to reap the rewards don't want to do any work. If 80% of the offices in my area started using this form then I would be forced to step up my game and double and triple check everything I did, hence the profession holds itself accountable. If we want the status quo foget about filling it out and provideing your patients with it, if you want change and something different give it a shot let the other guy gripe and complain. I do have to say though if you plan on using this form, then you need to be sure your $h*t don't stink, and if it does it's time to start making changes or get out of the profession. Their is no room for haphazard dispensing with todays technologies and I won't step down my game to match anyones level I expect them to step their game up to match mine or concede.

    What Harry said!

  15. #40
    ABO-AC, NCLEC bob_f_aboc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    I hear you. This can be a slippery slop, but I really think (Bob, correct me if I am wrong) the intention is to show a difference between a well-trained Optician versus someone who is not. For too long we have been dumbing the "profession" down. NO research has really been done on the quality of eyewear based on qualifications of the individual doing the dispensing. This can be a valuable tool.

    Now, for the folks in the example who did not admit an error, they deserve to be embarassed. We MUST tighten up! THis is a start.
    Warren,

    You are dead on! This form is used any time (at least in my office) a patient comes in and complains about the vision in their glasses. It doesn't matter to me where the patient obtained the Rx or glasses. I have sent it back to opticians when the glasses were not made to tolerance. I have sent it to doctors (OD & MD) when the glasses were made exactly to the Rx. I even use it for in-house jobs from my docs.

    The purpose is to hold opticians to a higher standard that the profession demands. If a patient cannot see well, the first step is NOT to send them back to the refractionist, but to analyze the eyewear, prescription, adjustment, etc... If more opticians lived up to that standard, there wouldn't be a need for this form.
    A lack of planning on your part DOES NOT constitute an emergency on mine!

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_f_aboc View Post
    Warren,

    You are dead on! This form is used any time (at least in my office) a patient comes in and complains about the vision in their glasses. It doesn't matter to me where the patient obtained the Rx or glasses. I have sent it back to opticians when the glasses were not made to tolerance. I have sent it to doctors (OD & MD) when the glasses were made exactly to the Rx. I even use it for in-house jobs from my docs.

    The purpose is to hold opticians to a higher standard that the profession demands. If a patient cannot see well, the first step is NOT to send them back to the refractionist, but to analyze the eyewear, prescription, adjustment, etc... If more opticians lived up to that standard, there wouldn't be a need for this form.
    Good point, Bob, we all have to be responsable for our acts and to show that we are professionists. Being a professionist makes you valuable.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcdwn View Post
    Hi
    Use the form. It works. I had a patient come into my place complaining about her eyeglasses. She had seen the prescribing doctor several times and was told nothing was wrong. The patient couldn't see out of her left eye. I checked both her written Rx and her glasses. Her glasses were correct. Then I trial framed the patient and found that she needed two more diopters of power. I told her that I would call her doctor and tell him what I found. This patient had only had this pair of glasses for two months. The patient was given a copy of the findings and I did suggest to the doctor that I could send this to the board. The patient had a Rx change and the glasses were remade at n/c. This doctor did thank me afterward. But it took this form to get the correction made. Trust me I have made my share of mistakes also but I will take responsibility for them and correct them. We all have to have checks and balances if not we are just like the fox guarding the hen house. We know what happens then.

    Don Price ABO/NCLE
    Yeah, we all have to admit that sometimes we may be wrong. We have to let ourselves helped when we are not sure on something. Is better to admit and to repair than because of our ego to pursuit in mistakes.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkmullen View Post
    I believe a patient deserves to know 1.) if there is something wrong with their glasses, 2.) what (in layman's terms) is wrong with their glasses, and 3.) what the provider of their glasses needs to change or do differently to correct the problem. However, "over educating" a patient verbally on the problem will overload them to a point where they will be spouting off wrong information to the retailer which only discredits the patient in the long run. I think that something in writing between two knowledgable opticians is the best way to cut out putting the patient in the middle of situation in which they have no idea how to solve themselves. If someone makes something wrong, they need to own up to it and sometimes, an outside perspective is much needed when those making the glasses are inexperienced or simply unaware of properly troubleshooting.
    Yes, the role of an optician is to help people, to support the patients and to give them the best solutions. And yes, this form, helps in doing that.

  19. #44
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    I remember a patient who went to a "bargain" store to get her glasses made, and then returned because they were not working. I told her they were made incorrectly and said she should return to where she bought them. The ensuing "optician" called me to complain that the glasses were perfectly on power. "Yes", I responded, "But you put the progressive add portion at the TOP of the lens, not the bottom!"

    This form would have helped
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  20. #45
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    I had a person bring in her glasses she had bought at a department store's optical department for me to look at. She told me she had taken them back to the place where she bought them and was told they check out. When I looked I noticed they had used two right eye blanks for her PALs -- nice!

  21. #46
    ABO-AC, NCLEC bob_f_aboc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jefe View Post
    I had a person bring in her glasses she had bought at a department store's optical department for me to look at. She told me she had taken them back to the place where she bought them and was told they check out. When I looked I noticed they had used two right eye blanks for her PALs -- nice!
    This is exactly the type of thing that we are looking to document. Anyone is capable of making a bone-head mistake at any given time, but how many QUALIFIED, TRAINED opticians would pass this type of mistake twice, despite the insistance by the patient that something is wrong?

    Did you use this form, or something similar? If not, what type of documentation did you give the patient to take back to the department store?
    A lack of planning on your part DOES NOT constitute an emergency on mine!

  22. #47
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    PLEEZ!

    "Correct" is NOT the "right" (!) word to use to describe Rx efficacy or client satisfaction.

    "appropriate"...please.

    Whose to say just what is correct?

    B

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa007 View Post
    Hi all,
    I am new member. can anyone give me advice which contact lenses are best for weak eyes.
    Oh please give me a break! Consumers are not allowed to post here. Bye bye.

  24. #49
    Bad address email on file fvc2020's Avatar
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    I like the form..How many time have I had to send back this info on a business card or tried to explain it to a patient who is already upset??? Thanks We will help. When our patients come back and admit they have "cheated"(its an inside joke at our office) for one reason or another, they usually can't understand why their glasses don't work like we promised them they would. Normally they have been educated by us, but left to get "cheaper"elsewhere. We step by step troubleshoot and explain in detail each problem. This form can help them go back with small cramped messages to the other dispenser completely detailed...I love it...Bob those people burned or angered by it I think are looking at this in the wrong way. I also by the add before my patient leaves, "have the other optician call me with any other questions"..I open the door for questions from that other person with the hopes that there is no anger only the opportuntity to resolve our mutal patients issues

  25. #50
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    If you would'nt let yor mother wear them why let someone else's if there wrong don't let them go out of the door i AGREE with Bob think its a good idea ................

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