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Thread: What are the best Sunglasses?

  1. #1

    What are the best Sunglasses?

    I keep getting request for Maui Jim Sunglasses. We are near another optical store that carries them and two Sunglass Hut stores. I called my local rep and he told me "I do not need another account in your area." What a JERK!

    We have Costa Del Mar, Serengeti, Oakley, Revo (who nobody wants anymore since the lenses are ****) Ray Ban, Arnette and Reptile (what a mistake).

    What other polarized brands are good?

    When is luxottica kicking Maui Jim out so they will open more accounts?

  2. #2
    Bad address email on file optigoddess's Avatar
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    Confused What the ......?

    Ok, let me understand this: You are getting requests from your customers for a specific product. You contact the rep & say "Hey, I have a definate market for your product -- I can help you make money while I make money..." and the rep turns away $$$$?

    That sounds crazy to me! Is it due to laziness on the part of the rep or that the company only wants so many accounts per certain area of the country?

    It it's the former, I'd be contacting the rep's boss to inquire WHY they don't want the $$$$....if it's the latter, I'd keep track of the requests & reapproach after 3-6 months & tell them: we both lost this many (XYZ) sales.

  3. #3
    Bad address email on file Ari's Avatar
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    Most frame companies we deal with will sometimes sign a contract with us. Stating that they will not sell the product to anybody else within 10, 15, or 30 mile radius. That is the benefit of the location carrying the product not the other guy. That’s why it is a cut throat business.

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    Master OptiBoarder sandeepgoodbole's Avatar
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    Exclamation Amicable way..

    Originally posted by Ari
    Most frame companies we deal with will sometimes sign a contract with us. Stating that they will not sell the product to anybody else within 10, 15, or 30 mile radius. That is the benefit of the location carrying the product not the other guy. That’s why it is a cut throat business.
    To have a cordial relationship with immidiate compitetors may benifit if they agree to be not too offensive. This should make way to Monopolize Models amongst neighbouring Opticians.
    If they want each others models, at times, those can be supplied only thru Competeors at predecided margines.
    Everybody will benifit .
    Wisdom is easy to suggest but nearly immpossible to practice. Those who can do it are really fortunate
    genius.

  5. #5
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Why, Ari . . . .

    You must work for Marvin.
    Can't think of too many other people who can get away with restraint of trade violations uncontested. Bravo to you. Go gettum Tiger!

    But, then....that's Vegas for ya! Odds are in favor nobody will notice.

    Now, where was that FTC phone number I had it here on the desk someplace. Darn...can never find anything on this desk when I need it!

  6. #6
    Bad address email on file Ari's Avatar
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    Smilie

    Alan,

    No, I do not work for Marvin. I do not like him much. I work for another just like him. I think if you own your own business you would probably think the same. This might be a dumb analogy but bear with me. If you have a Ford dealership on one corner, I can pretty much guarantee won’t be another across the corner. Sorry, I told you it was going to be a bad analogy, it was the only one I can think of.

  7. #7
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Ari

    I share much of your feelings. I won't go into the past too much. His failure was my gain...enough said. But, I do have a feeling about exclusive agreements, though. Not so much about the agreement itself, but with the thinking that the only game in town is the best game to play. In eyewear, there is only so much market share we each will have. Most of us neither know how nor have the marketing or expansion resources to grow to hold or increase market share, if we actually know what that marketshare is or can be.
    But, competition also stimulates awareness and causes greater movement in the marketplace for both the seller AND buyer.
    Over the years I have seen so many people demand exclusivity, who threaten vendors, thinking that will insure a pot of gold, it isn't funny. And, many vendors cave in. Only later do they both find out that the seller didnt have enough marketshare to begin with to make the exclusive worthwhile. I'm not afraid of competition. Whatever it is, I hope it causes people to come to me when they find out I do what competition doesn't do. I just hope I have the skills and staying power to hang in there.
    I still believe in legendary customer service, quality, and staying close to my customer in the community.

    Then I say to myself . . . what if I'm right? Then some other guy will copy me. Then I guess I'll have to demand to be the only widget seller in town when the next widget comes out. Oh well!


    Merry Christmas. Hope I can see you in Vegas soon. Need a break. Seabrook is soooo dullsville!

  8. #8
    Bad address email on file Ari's Avatar
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    Alan,

    I totally agree with you. All I was trying to say you get in this kill mode, because the other guy is trying to kill off.

    Vegas is waiting for Alan, maybe I’ll meet you some day.

  9. #9
    Bad address email on file marblez's Avatar
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    Hello

    Its been a while but I had to throw my ten cents in. My office tried to get a Maui Jim account also. WE called several times and told them we wanted to open an account. We do alot of plano sunnies and people want polarization. For months they did not return our calls. After about five months they called, stating that they loved to set up an account. At that point we decided to not pursuit any longer and told them why. They didn't care. By the way the closet Maui Jim dealer is VisionWorks(if they still have them and Sunlgass Hut) WE checked.



    Christina

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    In answer to the question of other polarized sunglass manufacturers, I would recommend Hobie and Ocean Waves in addition to what you already carry.
    As to the problems with Maui Jim, I think it's unfortunate that some Optiboarders have had negative experiences. We have never had a problem, our rep is great and their customer service is excellent. Just as with any other company, there are probably a few bad apples out there and it's too bad that they are creating a negative image for the whole company. I know we've got a Maui Jim rep on the board now, so maybe s/he will step up and give some input on this.

  11. #11
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    We've had Maui's since before we had Oakleys. They attract higher socio-economic clients. We've been more than satisfied w/ the service, and they have no 2-1 exchange policy some of the higher end (fashion forward//thanks optgoddess ) lines.

    As far as exclusive lines go...we opened a new branch in August and carry only exclusive lines. The reason ? We advertise a lot, and we're not going to be the first account in the area to educate the consumers, only to have them go door to door price shopping. There are so many lines out there anyway, the competition could probably care less. Why do the reps go for it ? We partner w/ them and tell them up front what they'll get from us. Make one sales calll and get 20 pcs., or make 3 calls to the competition and get 10. And the funny thing is that these are not frame lines that you would normally think of as exclusive, some are household names that the competition perviously could have ordered any day of the week. Not now.

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    So You realy think that a salesrep can make the decision to give you exclusivity for 20 pieces!?
    I dont think so!
    Nobody in your area want them -thats the reality!
    I would like somebody to tell me that i cant order a frame that i need only because somebody bought 20 of their frames!
    I understand the very high end lines: Cartier, Matsuda, Oliver Peoples.
    I certanly hope its not Kenmark or Charmant!

  13. #13
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Lenny, Lenny, Lenny...

    Easy Boy !

    Yes, I KNOW salesreps rep can, and do (not in every case) make a decision to give an exclusive on even less than 20 frames.

    We carry a line that is not extremely expensive (avg. of $95 wholesale). The rep never came to our area because in the past this area was not thought to be able to suport that type of product. We saw it in Vegas and told the regional rep that we would put the product in only if no optical w/in 25 miles could carry it. He talked with the local rep after the show, who agreed that our area was not profitable for him. We put 16 pieces in.

    About 2 months after we put the line in, the HR director for a large local company bought 3 of these frames. She refered a lot of people to us. We started selling a ton of them (We now stock around 30). When the OD down the street had people asking about the line, he called the company, and was told that he need to open an account through his rep. The rep refused to go see him. No rep, no account open. I know this because the regional mgr called to thank me for my support, and relayed what had happened.

    20 frames is not a lot, but when the rep beats his head against the wall, and no results, he'll appreciate an account giving him a break, and will usually back him up down the road.

    As far as Kenamark and Charmant go, don't kid yourself, the big companies will do it also. I was a rep for one of the top 3 companies back in the late 80's, and I had at least 6 exclusive accounts. It's happening more in rural areas where there might be a small town with 4 opticals, and then not another town with an optical for maybe 20 or 30 miles.

    While we're talking about reps Lenny, you should ask your favorite rep if you could ride with him/her for a day. 10 cold calls handing out freebies that come out of your commissions, showing up for appointments with boxes of doughnuts only to find out that they forgot to cancel the appointment. Getting a vmx urgently requesting an appointment, and when you reschedule your day, only to find out they just want to return what they purchased 6 weeks ago. And this is all if you're lucky enough to work for one of the big guys. If you don't work for a big company, you have even a harder time getting in front of an account. And you don't think that after all this a rep won't give
    an exclusive for a 20 pc. order ? Think again...

  14. #14
    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    God I hate to be a sales rep!
    We treat most of them like ****!
    I did have some problem with a sales rep not willing to come to my store. He had a teritory too big that he can handle and he was making too much money to put his product into more stores so he can make even more money. It was unfortunate only for him.
    We called the company, got the catalogs and placed the order to VP asking him to fill it and make us a house account so the sales rep dont get comithions from our orders.
    PS In 2 years dealing with them we are not only get better pricing because they dont have to pay 10-20% commitions to the sales rep but we do about 400-500 piece orders every 4-5 month!

    So what do you think the company or in your case the sales rep can tell your competition if they want to do the same thing?

  15. #15
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Lenny.

    I used to tell them, "You had more than enough opportunity". I would put my efforts into the account that pledged his support to my company, and his company would get our support in return.

    John

  16. #16
    Master OptiBoarder rep's Avatar
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    Re: Exclusive lines

    Hi Guy's

    I work for Luxottica and this has been an interesting thread I sometimes wonder if accounts understand the comission structure and how reps are affected directly by actions they take.

    In my experience things just don't work that way in today's world, at least at this company.

    First sales reps have contracts that state that any sales made in their territory (stock orders or phone orders) they get paid comissions . Perhaps it doesnt show up on your invoice but the company can be sued big time if they do not get paid comissions as defined by contract.

    Second the reps cannot control who buys or purchase what lines. That is controlled by company policy and unless there is a credit problem or the line is restricted in the type of store design then anyone can purchase that product by simply picking up the telephone. Retailers can sue if you fail to sell to them when they meet the unit, credit, store type requirements.

    Things use to be different but not any more. Most of the major companies are publicly held and they could lose big time unless they have uniform policies for reps , lines and retailers.

    I appreciate your understanding of what it takes to be a rep in todays optical environment but a 20 piece exclusive doesn't compute for the rep or his company. Both would lose without a long term comittment and if you failed to keep that comittment, both would go broke betting you wouldn't go to Vegas and find a line you like better.

  17. #17
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Rep:

    First of all, No, most things don't work like they do at your company. Except for your company, none of the vendors we deal with compete against us for our retail dollar.

    Secondly, most reps don't sign contracts like the one you mentioned, or there would be no such thing as a "house account"(You know, the kind where the rep is making to much, and corporate comes in and takes the account so it can be "better managed" from the home office.

    Thirdly, not all reps work on commissions. Some are actually employed by the manufacturer, or the distributer. Of course, if a rep was making a low commission on a low priced frame, 20 pcs. wouldn't be worth a phone call for an order. (You know your product better than I) Your brush paints an awfully wide stroke.

    Also, the optical business consists of more than just clusters of accounts in Brooklyn, LA, Miami, or Dallas. Many reps travel to exotic locations like Buchannon, WV , Sedalia, Mo., and Ephraim, Ut. Business is NOT done in the same manner in every coerner of the world. (Ask Sandee from India). I'm glad that you are proud of the company that you rep for, but don't assume that the way they (you ) do things, are the only way things are done.
    Last edited by Johns; 12-28-2001 at 10:57 PM.

  18. #18
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Anybody know what the word "yentzed" means?

    I'm listening (or, reading) to the argument about exclusives, and who what and where one gets and cant get them, and I say to myself:

    "Self . . . based on your last visit from the Marchon and Luxottica reps(and, others) . . . and who can make decisions about minimums etc. . . your gettin yentzed!"

    Woe be unto the reps when they return after yentzing me into this minimum and that minimum. Woe be unto the reps who yentzed me on what I should get and they'll change it after we are up and rolling.

    Anybody wondering what the word "yentzed" means now?

    Here's a new word . . . the word is "hock"!

    As in . . . Wait til I see you on your next visit. Boy, are you gonna get a "hock" in the head from me!

    P.S. Bring your RFC book!
    P.P.S. Don't even think about a 15% restocking charge or your gettin a 20% flooring charge from me so you can get commisioned.
    P.P.S.S. You owe me lunch! A big one!

  19. #19
    Master OptiBoarder rep's Avatar
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    Re: Exclusive lines

    John
    I work for Luxottica and I am glad to hear you use our products

    First I am not sure who else you deal with but Luxottica is NOT as you stated the only company that competes with you in the retail market. United Health Care has more than 80 retail locations and they just purchased Spectera. Do you have these plans or their frames in your office? The manufacturers tied with them require that you use their frames and their lab exclusively for their managed care plan. We don't have either requirement.

    Oakley, and a number of other Sunglass wholesalers are in direct retail competition with you with their own retail stores. In fact almost every Sunglass brand is available in 3-O channels of trade are available in the retail channel of trade at your local department store, discount store, outdoor store, bike and surf shop.

    Second It is just the opposite of what you are implying regarding rep contracts in todays world. Contracts protect the reps from accounts they develop being reclassified as house accounts. If you don't have a contract that defines your territory and number of location restrictions etc. the company can do what ever it wants. That use to happen in the past with a number of companies, but as I said, not any more at Lux.

    Third yes I know there are reps that are employed by the manufacturer and have expenses paid in addition to comission, but usually that commission structure is much lower or none is paid at all. Perhaps they can give a 20 piece exclusive since it doesn't affect their comissions but as you said "they know their product better then I"

    I agree that the industry is very different for wholesalers in different parts of the country that's exactly what I was trying to say in response to your statement

    "I KNOW salesreps rep can, and do (not in every case) make a decision to give an exclusive on even less than 20 frames."

    The fact is they cannot in every part of the country and evey company, as I said because of legal reasons.

    Since most large companies now have multiple lines with multiple reps, exclusives are only for the exclusive lines that have major ongoing comittments (not 20 piece stock orders). Just try not purchasing the new product releases of exclusive lines and see how quick your account is pulled.

    Alan

    Minimums are a whole other subject.

    You won't agree with this but, mimimums actually protect the retailers from those retailers who say to their customers " Go down the street to Harry's and get the numbers off their frames and I will order it for you cheaper. While there are a lot of diverters around, the companies have been working hard to plug the holes and protect the account that purchase a mimimum number of units and continues to stock a good selection of products from that particular line.

    I can assure you that mimimums are here to stay

  20. #20
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Rep,

    Sorry, but no, I (proudly) do not have one single piece of Luxotica belong to any such plans), but they don't send a frame rep in, sell you in any of my offices. We manage quite nicely without the product.

    Concerning frame vendors that compete against eyecare professionals...

    - I have never seen a United Healthcare frame line listed in the Frame Facts book.

    -I have never seen a "Spectera" frame listed in Frame Facts.

    -I have seen an Altair (VSP) line, which is owned by the plan, but they don't own any retail opticals which compete against us.

    -United Hlthcr, Spectera, Davis Vision, and other 3rd party plans may demand you carry certain frames, (and no, I don't frames, and then compete directly against in their own retail outlets. Sure, some plans might have retails, but you know who they are, and what they are.

    -I buy from companies that support my business. Transitions, for example, supports this site, so I deal w / them, as opposed to Sunsensors.
    -Varilux helps me w/ a free website and useful co-op, so I use them.
    -Marchon, Tura, Safilo, and others get my business because I know that while they will sell to my competition, they are not my competition. They sell frames. They don't market directly to my customers and attempt to entice them to buy glasses at their retail outlets.
    -There are too many vendors out there not to support those that support us.

    Alan:

    I've got to agree w/ the rep on this one. Minimums do help you as a retailer for exactly the reason rep mentioned. Also, if you're paying re-stocking fees, you must be reutrning an unusually large amount of product. Industry average is somewhere around 3%.









  21. #21
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    johns,

    I have to correct you on one point! Safilo does sell retail in the U.K. they bought out a chain long before lux bought LC.

    Marchon and safilo gives large chains much much higher discounts than they give you. If they refused to do so it would be hard for many of the smaller chains(Not in large malls) to compete with the 3 O's

    trantsitions ran an ad for their lenses and at the end of the ad it said avalible at Pearle Vision!

    this is just business! You deal with your competion everyday

    anyone that has bought anything from Bj's Sam, Walmart, target and many more has supported the competition!

    this thread is getting a little off track ! and I'm not helping
    Last edited by optirep; 12-29-2001 at 07:10 PM.

  22. #22
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    rep:

    You made my point. Transitions does not own Pearle. Luxottica OWNS Lenscrafters ! I respect Transitions for supporting one of their larger accounts by co-op advertising w/ them. I'm sure if I spent the money Cole does, they'd put my name in their ads as well. That's what it's all about, partnering.

    And yes (this will make twice in one day !) I agree that anyone who shops at those stores (Wall-mart, BJ's, etc...) supports the competition to some extent (some that you mentioned are merely concessions w/in stores). I put my money where my mouth is and buy localy, and while I'm spending my $$, I tell the owner who I am, and why I'm shopping in that establishment. I can live w/out WallMart, just as easily as I can live w/ out Luxottica. In fact, I see them both as huge corporations that won't be satisfied until they's snuffed out the very last independent retailer.

    So much for this being a sunglass thread...

  23. #23
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    just read an article on Vision Monday .COM looks like safilo is trying to buy a small retail sunglass chain in the U.S.

    I guess its time to stop buying from Safilo!

    I also heard they are trying to rent space on Newbury St in boston.

    I really see nothing wrong with it! but I do work for Lux

  24. #24
    Master OptiBoarder rep's Avatar
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    Re: Exclusive lines

    John

    As you know I work for Luxottica and as we discussed this is a big optical world and everything is not the same everywhere in the country, much less the world.

    United Health Care in my region of the country has teamed up with Viva International and Kenmark Optical. These brands are in frame facts and they require that you use them and their lab as I stated previously.

    Now don't take this out on them. I think accounts need to look at vendors and managed care plans who bring patients to fill in the gaps that they have in their schedules. Just selling you frames is not enough any more. We feel we are partnering by making them more profitable with our programs.

    I think this is a trend you will see more in the future for frame companies.

    P. S. Rep and Opti Rep are two different people.

  25. #25
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    BS!!!

    A frame company buys or starts a third party plan, charges the companies to sign on, and then forces the practioners (those desperate enough to have to sign on) to carry over 150 frames in order to see any of these people as customers? IS THIS YOUR IDEA OF PARTNERING !!!!!!??????? I know 100's (Now thousands through Opti-board) of optical professionals, and I can't accept that many of them are stupid enough to believe that this is PARTNERING. Understand, I'm not saying they are stupid if they sign up for these, but don't expect them to believe that you're doing them a favor. If Luxotica wanted to "partner" why do they pay a discounted lens allowance ? A partner would give the going market rate. Please don't say that all third parties do this because, remember, your company is different, you guys are PARTNERS.

    Happy New Year...

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