Fraud in Romania

[wilddevil]

I am from Pitesti, close to the capital. Last summer a group of opthometrists from US come to my home town with some interest. The inform the population that they do free exams and give glasses also. I was very enchanted that some foreigners try to do the best to serve the people.
After two or three days people come to my office complaing about those crooks saying the fallowings:
-the exam was 5 minute long, there was a crowded place were the tehnicians examined the patients.
-after such a short exam, they gave everyone glasses already mounted. Those glasses were SH or garbage because the prescription did not mach with the glasses offered as gift.
My indignation was that the made a deal with The inssurance house (stat guided), and there were more than 3000 persons foxed. It is outrageous that someone can do such a thing to a relatively poor part of the citizens.
Naw I would like to ask your oppinion about such thing, and if it is normal to happen to a country in which the poverty reachs high level.

[chip anderson]

Let us get this straight. They came there at thier own expense. Saw your people however briefly for free. Gave them product reguardless of quality and cosmetics free of charge.
And you are complaining about being ripped off?
I guess Paul Harvey was right when he said: "They just don't see things the way we do."

What did you want Prada and a complete physical?

Chip

[Oedema]

I am from Pitesti, close to the capital. Last summer a group of opthometrists from US come to my home town with some interest. The inform the population that they do free exams and give glasses also. I was very enchanted that some foreigners try to do the best to serve the people.
After two or three days people come to my office complaing about those crooks saying the fallowings:
-the exam was 5 minute long, there was a crowded place were the tehnicians examined the patients.
-after such a short exam, they gave everyone glasses already mounted. Those glasses were SH or garbage because the prescription did not mach with the glasses offered as gift.
My indignation was that the made a deal with The inssurance house (stat guided), and there were more than 3000 persons foxed. It is outrageous that someone can do such a thing to a relatively poor part of the citizens.
Naw I would like to ask your oppinion about such thing, and if it is normal to happen to a country in which the poverty reachs high level.

This sounds like a typical Charity program. Optometrist come and do exams, and give patients USED glasses that have been DONATED from people in the USA. They try to match the prescrition to whatever they have with them as close as possible. This is quite a common scenario, tons of US optometrists go abroad and donate their services. Unfortunately, I don't agree with it as it doesn't do very much to develop the local optometric/optical community.

Did these people actually pay anything for the care they received? Doesn't sound like it.

[xmattMPHx]

Let us get this straight. They came there at thier own expense. Saw your people however briefly for free. Gave them product reguardless of quality and cosmetics free of charge.
And you are complaining about being ripped off?
I guess Paul Harvey was right when he said: "They just don't see things the way we do."

What did you want Prada and a complete physical?

Chip

Chip,
It's unfortunate that optometry lags so far behind in the development of global public health initiatives. I think we can agree from the original post that the service provided to this population was a diservice. This style of care is no longer acceptable.

The American group was well meaning. They sacrificed time and money but are now sitting at home thinking they accomplished some good in Romania. They did not - as is evident from our Romanian colleague's comments.

The consensus among those active in public health work as it relates to refractive error is that i) recycled spectacles have no place in the treatment of refractive error, ii) it is far better to develop local refractionists and local spectacle distribution networks than send short-term teams. The money used to fund this team probably could have been better used.

wilddevil, it would be prudent to encourage local officials to stop encouraging these teams to come. They often come at the invitation of some government official. Government time and energy would be better used coming up with some sort of scheme to make care and spectacles more affordable. Easy for me to say! I know things are tough in Romania (I'm there at least once a year) but perhaps you'll be able to come up with a workable solution.

[renee1111]

I am from Pitesti, close to the capital. Last summer a group of opthometrists from US come to my home town with some interest. The inform the population that they do free exams and give glasses also. I was very enchanted that some foreigners try to do the best to serve the people.
After two or three days people come to my office complaing about those crooks saying the fallowings:
-the exam was 5 minute long, there was a crowded place were the tehnicians examined the patients.
-after such a short exam, they gave everyone glasses already mounted. Those glasses were SH or garbage because the prescription did not mach with the glasses offered as gift.
My indignation was that the made a deal with The inssurance house (stat guided), and there were more than 3000 persons foxed. It is outrageous that someone can do such a thing to a relatively poor part of the citizens.
Naw I would like to ask your oppinion about such thing, and if it is normal to happen to a country in which the poverty reachs high level.

What a slap in the face! Hopefully not everyone that benefits from this service feels the same way you do. :finger:

[Jubilee]

Indeed it sounds like they typical mission trip.

When you are trying to help thousands of people in just a few days, it is an assembly line process.

While they may only spend 5-10mins with the doctor, they already had their eyes dialated, auto-refracted, and tonometry before reaching the OD.

The glasses typically are used, though sometimes they will use precut lenses into mass produced frames (chabellas from those @ LC)

However, as Oedema stated, the World Health Organization is wanting to shift focus from these type trips to ones that are designed to provide a sustainable program to teach locals how to provide these services.

Here is a thread from way back when there was debate about the need for missions vs sustainable care.

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...ht=Vision+2020

[xmattMPHx]

What a slap in the face! Hopefully not everyone that benefits from this service feels the same way you do. :finger:

Aaah but that's the rub. Did anyone benefit?

Yes? The literature doesn't support that answer.

[Jubilee]

I just have to take a moment to reflect on the same names in this conversation as the one I posted a link to..

Glad to see you are still active Matt and continuing to promote the WHO's 2020 plan :)

[braheem24]

I am from Pitesti, close to the capital.After two or three days people come to my office complaing about those crooks

You live in England and have an office in Romania?

Whatever, pretend Ididnt catch that.

Question is, why didnt YOU volunteer with the foreigners?

[CME4SPECS]

I am from Pitesti, close to the capital. Last summer a group of opthometrists from US come to my home town with some interest. The inform the population that they do free exams and give glasses also. I was very enchanted that some foreigners try to do the best to serve the people.
After two or three days people come to my office complaing about those crooks saying the fallowings:
-the exam was 5 minute long, there was a crowded place were the tehnicians examined the patients.
-after such a short exam, they gave everyone glasses already mounted. Those glasses were SH or garbage because the prescription did not mach with the glasses offered as gift.
My indignation was that the made a deal with The inssurance house (stat guided), and there were more than 3000 persons foxed. It is outrageous that someone can do such a thing to a relatively poor part of the citizens.
Naw I would like to ask your oppinion about such thing, and if it is normal to happen to a country in which the poverty reachs high level.

Why didn't they just go visit your office in the first place. The services offered were probably meant for the poverty stricken folks that couldn't afford to see a doctor!

[Johns]

-the exam was 5 minute long, there was a crowded place were the tehnicians examined the patients.
-after such a short exam, they gave everyone glasses already mounted. Those glasses were SH or garbage because the prescription did not mach with the glasses offered as gift.

Sounds like a bog box chain store moved in!;)

[chip anderson]

How can you do something for free and be a "crook" for doing it. Sounds like you folks need to get jobs and work for what you get, then you can complain about the quality. Get a good job and you can get what you want.

Chip

[Scott]

I am almost certain that this was a Vosh mission that a friend was on. All people involved donate there time and services to this great cause....bringing vision to those that couldn't otherwise afford to purchase glasses. Maybe you should join one theses missions and offer your services free of charge.:finger:

[sharpstick777]

If the people who received glasses were truly upset, they could just throw the eyewear away and they are back exactly where they started.

If one or two people are upset, I bet hundreds were thrilled. Sure they look like Sally Jesse Raphael but those frames are coming back soon.

You could give away a million dollars and I am sure someone would find something to complain about it (you fools gave us twenties, we wanted larger bills!).

I think the missions, although imperfect, do a lot of good.

[Scott]

Wilddevil, before making such accusations you should take a look at what these folks do around the world!
www.vosh.org (Volunteer Optometric Services to Humanity)

[xmattMPHx]

Wilddevil, before making such accusations you should take a look at what these folks do around the world!
www.vosh.org (Volunteer Optometric Services to Humanity)

Scott,
Jubilee included a link in one of her earlier posts. It was a discussion that took place a number of years ago now. Well worth reading if you want to see "the rest of the story".

I think wilddevil knows what "these people" do around the world. Perhaps, (s)he knows better than we do!

I should say that I really enjoyed the above referenced discussion. I just went back and re-read much of it. Very enjoyable. And thanks for the greeting Jubilee.

Here is a thread from way back when there was debate about the need for missions vs sustainable care.

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...ht=Vision+2020

[chip anderson]

I have seen some senarios where New Eyes for the Needy or other do gooder organisations would come to an area and local prescribers would oppose their appearance on the seen.

Perhaps this is the wild ones gripe. Fraid he gonna lose a customer or two.

chip:hammer:

[optigrrl]

I am from Pitesti, close to the capital. Last summer a group of opthometrists from US come to my home town with some interest. The inform the population that they do free exams and give glasses also. I was very enchanted that some foreigners try to do the best to serve the people.
After two or three days people come to my office complaing about those crooks saying the fallowings:
-the exam was 5 minute long, there was a crowded place were the tehnicians examined the patients.
-after such a short exam, they gave everyone glasses already mounted. Those glasses were SH or garbage because the prescription did not mach with the glasses offered as gift.
My indignation was that the made a deal with The inssurance house (stat guided), and there were more than 3000 persons foxed. It is outrageous that someone can do such a thing to a relatively poor part of the citizens.
Naw I would like to ask your oppinion about such thing, and if it is normal to happen to a country in which the poverty reachs high level.

I think this person is inferring that these particular OD's received compensation from the state for this service and that is the complaint..possibly?

[Uncle Double]

dnftt

[LadyDie]

First let me state I am on the board of VOSH Illinois.
If this was a VOSH mission it was not done to cheat anyone.
Are such missions perfect? No, but each patient is given our best.
Is the Rx exactly what we'd like to give? No. Patients are given the scrpit if they wish to get it filled elsewhere, but we give them glasses as close as possible.
Is the exam they are given done by technicians or less thourough? NO! True there are non ODs, like me with as well as Optometry students. We do the pre-testing and choosing and dispensing of the glasses. I have seen many of the ODs come over too for a special patient to help in the selection. I have also seen many cases caught that had more intense problems and refered for medical help. I have seen doctors agonize over how to help a specific patient.
Is everyone happy when they leave? No. I can't count how many times someone is brought to us who is blind because "the American doctors can fix him", and then are crushed when we can't.
I have also seen tears of joy when someone can see their child's face clearly for the first time, when an elderly woman can again read her Bible, when a man can see well enough to do his job, when a child can see the board in school, or a farmer gets a pair of sunglasses to work out in the tropical sun. Theses are much more frequent than complaints over a "gift", a word used in the initial complaint. Most of the people I have seen on VOSH missions could NEVER afford the local optometrist, so I don't feel anything is taken away from the local economy.
I find the title for this post offensive. "Fraud" for a gift?

[wilddevil]

Hey I was missunderstood, the deal made with the issurace house was for the money, they didn't do that for free. I was not very satisfied with the quality of their service and also with the fact that they get a large amount of money from our state. It fair enough to say that someone would help for free but that wasn't happend here. I must say that 90% of the people who went there were elders, and you do have to go and get a reference from your own family doctor to go to the exams. Many people went there because they were informed that doctors from Us come to see their ocular affection, but everyone got a pair of glasses.
A dousin of people were complaining, because the gasses were quite different from the prescripsions(which they didn't received, which also amakes me think that it was wrong) and of course they were not seeing very well with those glasses. It is inappropriate to give someone, even if it is for free, bad corrections(eg. which may induce squint or aniseiconia).
P.S. Trust me that my office did not suffer from those incompetents, I have my clients, and the services that I offer are impling that the pacients go home very enchanted not with some "charity work" done here. I hope that they would do that for free but it wasn't in my case discribed. I am well intened and I wouldn't like to uppsed those nonprofit organisations which do very much for the poors.
P.S.2 I understand form my client that they were from US, I don't know that for sure.
P.S.3 I am a optometrist, and I serve my work with conscientiousness.

[swellnicole]

Wilddevil,

Buna Ziua!

What qualifications does an optometrist need to practice in Romania? I was actually not aware Romania had Optometry as a recognized profession. I've often thought of moving back there for a few years to practice Optometry, but didn't know if it would be possible.

[wilddevil]

Wilddevil,

Buna Ziua!

What qualifications does an optometrist need to practice in Romania? I was actually not aware Romania had Optometry as a recognized profession. I've often thought of moving back there for a few years to practice Optometry, but didn't know if it would be possible.

Buna Ziua!

What qualifications does an optometrist need to practice in Romania? I was actually not aware Romania had Optometry as a recognized profession. I've often thought of moving back there for a few years to practice Optometry, but didn't know if it would be possible.[/QUOTE]
From 90s we have Optometry in one prestigious University (4years) Politehnica Bucharest. The optometry is a also at the begining of the road, but I see a bright future.

[wilddevil]

Buna Ziua!

What qualifications does an optometrist need to practice in Romania? I was actually not aware Romania had Optometry as a recognized profession. I've often thought of moving back there for a few years to practice Optometry, but didn't know if it would be possible.

From 90s we have Optometry in one prestigious University (4years) Politehnica Bucharest. The optometry is a also at the begining of the road, but I see a bright future.[/QUOTE]

[libellule]

Jubilee included a link in one of her earlier posts. It was a discussion that took place a number of years ago now. Well worth reading if you want to see "the rest of the story".

I just read this older thread...and it leaves me a bit dazed and confused. I am about to depart for Honduras on my first VOSH mission. My intention was to use my skills to help others. Up until now I have been very excited to be in a position to do so (I go at my own expense).

So...what now? After reading the thread I have to say I am torn. I find validity in both sides of the discussion. People are in need...their need is real. Is it best to help in the near term in any way we can? Or is it best to take a more objective and detached stance that will help more people but at some time in the future?
The thread was started in 2006....it is now 2009. What has been done by WHO in the last 3 years to further their objectives...in a tangible way, not just rhetoric? And what can a lowly Opticain (and I say lowly because so many made mention of teaching locals such 'simple' skills...the same ones I employ every day and spent 2 years in school to learn) do to improve the healthcare infrastrucure in developing countries when some of these countries lack any infrastructure at all? Isn't electricity essential to the edging of new spectacle lenses? I ask in all sincerity....
Additionally, no one has mentioned the real fact that some of us who get involved in missions want to be involved on a personal level...not just write a check to feel better about themselves and the world. I am not saying that that isn't, on some level, a selfish desire. It is simply the truth.
So...I ask....what else can I do...what skills, education etc. can I aquire that will be of real and greater service to the people in developing countries. If missions are not working....what else is there?