To quote comedian George Carlin, "Mother's milk leads to everything."Originally Posted by Jacqui
I smoked a LOT of pot in the late seventies and early eighties. I tried other harder drugs, but was never addicted to anything. Well, maybe I was addicted to caffiene and sugar. ;)
FWIW, my experience is that alcohol is more likely to lead to violence and risky behavior (like DUI), whereas pot leads to laughing and lethargy.
Nice well thought out response. Hope you didn't contribute to the gene pool.:hammer:
I have more experience with addiction than I will post on a public board that is trolled by Google. I rely more on my years and years of personal experience than reading the govt's party line. Nice way to dodge answering the question though. I'll answer for you. In your years as a nurse you have never seen anyone who is being treated for an overdose of Marijuana.
In all the years I was smoking, none of those things on TV ever happened to me. I didn't lose track of the kids, didn't get sexually abused and not remember it, didn't leave my friends at a party, didn't rape the baby sitter, etc. I did however get caught after smoking a joint and going to a movie. The state's position is this: If you can't even go to a movie without being high, you must have a problem that requires treatment. You are a reefer addict plain and simple and you'll have to go sit in group counseling with a bunch of crack heads and meth addicts. You'll have to pretend something is wrong with you so the BS counselor can find the cure. Over this same counseling period I am allowed to have an rx for Xanax, Klonopin, etc to calm my nerves. After all, those are "good, legal" drugs, that your govt and big business can make money off of. The whole thing reeks of hypocrisy. Most of the counselors here were ex addicts themselves(from actual hard drugs). That's funny, an ex crack head trying to tell me that smoking weed is bad for you. After all, if your govt says it, it must be true.
Last edited by KStraker; 04-16-2009 at 07:28 AM.
There's a time and place for everything, and before work is not the time for recreational drugs. I wouldn't want my kids being driven by a bus driver that's drunk, stoned, revved up on caffiene, or just plain stupid. I also don't want them subjected to second hand smoke - the results are potentially the same as being driven by a stoned driver, it just takes longer (potentially).
I know this is the internet, but try to stay polite please! I'm done contributing to this topic since people seem to come down so hard on the issue.
I will say this though, in my lifetime, I am sure marijuana will be legalized or at least decriminalized in this country. And everything will be ok.
Life is too important to take seriously.
WALDO!
i am pretty sure i am hooked on trivex lensi dont think i can even use poly anymore!
Jacqui, I know your using "addicted" in the loosest of terms, but it should be made clear that it's generally not physically addicting. There's no physical tolerance (increased dose for the same effect), and many report a reverse tolerance- less is needed for the same effect. Withdrawl symptoms, if any, (most likely with long term heavy users) are akin to quitting caffeine. There's probably some degree of psychological addiction, especially with heavy, long term users, but most find it similar to giving up wine with dinner, caffeine, or chocolate.
The latest research indicates that marijuana is not a gateway drug.I can't give the numbers as my records are in storage right now. Almost every addict that I have worked with has stated that they started with marijuana and proceded from there.
http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/study...rug-12116.html
Here is a link to the study mentioned above.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/...urcetype=HWCIT
More...
http://www.rand.org/news/press.02/gateway.html
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/43
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman
Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.
Have you ever tried giving up caffeine? I went through more pain and suffering giving up caffeine for a month than I did when I quit methamphetamines for good.
As far as your study goes, tell me how many cocaine, meth, or heroin addicts did NOT smoke pot before they started those drugs.
I can speak from personal experience. I do not personally know of anyone that used the harder drugs without starting with pot.
I knew a cocaine addict that wouln't touch alcohol. I knew a husband and wife that used more meth than I ever did that thought smoking cigarettes was evil, but still smoked pot.
All of the studies in the world about addiction are worthless. An addict generally won't answer survey questions about their drug use unless they are paid. The person paying is then in a position to skew the results however they want very easily.
A lack of planning on your part DOES NOT constitute an emergency on mine!
For one thing, why does smoking pot automatically make you an addict? What if you smoke once a year? Or only smoke when you get together with family? People who have addictions are mentally hard-wired to be that way. Take away cigarettes, you'll see people start drinking or popping pills. I can honestly say I've never had a predisposition to addiction of any kind, whether it be alcohol, caffiene, smoking (never smoked cigs anyway--yuck), pills or weed. I can count on one hand how many times I've smoked weed, and I had a great time and would do it again. But am I jonesing for a hit? Hell no, I could care less. It's been 4 years since I last took a puff (or thereabouts), and that was when I was visiting family for Christmas and my cousin and I had a quickie out on the porch. Big deal. We had a load of laughs, and the food was even tastier than usual :D Even caffiene, as much as I love my espresso (I even have a picture of it as my cell phone background if that's any indication), I can quit, and HAVE quit. I haven't drank any of it in over a week, although that's mainly due to having some kidney issues right now that I don't want aggravated. Being groggy and missing my little morning ritual bothered me more than anything.
I am very much one of those people who are just as crazy and has fun being sober as being on something, so I'll save my money and avoid jailtime and enjoy life as it is. If it's there and I can indulge responsibly (as in, I don't have to drive afterwards), then I might.
I've had older friends (and by "older", I mean old enough to be my parents) who were addicted to everything you could think of. Take my old neighbor, Tim, a biker guy who did a lot of handyman work and was a professional painter. Nice as can be, generous, sociable yet liked his own space. Started off with such a bad drinking problem that when he'd show up to parties on his Harley, his friends would block him in so he wouldn't be able to ride home wasted. Then he was on coke. Then he got started on Oxycontins. This man could eat....EAT..... 40mg of those a day and go to work and function without any problems. So in case you were wondering where my "experience" comes from, besides being immune to it myself, I've also seen it live and in concert, right in front of me. It's very sad to see someone's life go down the drain like that, and I don't judge anyone who either has, or has been, addicted to something.
So that whole "marijuana is a gateway drug" is a bunch of hooey. People who start with weed and move on to harder stuff are already predisposed to addiction.
Corollation does not mean causality. Maybe the people who would try coke, meth, or heroin are the same people who would try pot, and pot is easier to get. Most people drink alcohol before they smoke pot - does this mean that alcohol is a gateway drug, and should be illegal?
i am pretty sure i am hooked on trivex lens
Now THAT is a tragedy... the Trivex fumes must have altered your mind, because polycarbonate is an all-around better material (plus, those fumes have impeded your ability to capitalize "i"s :)). I prescribe a steady dose of 1.60 (which is also has several advantages over Trivex- including better drillability).
Have you ever tried giving up caffeine?
I've been caffeine-free for about 8 months now, and it was life-changing!
The withdrawal took about a week (I quit cold-turkey, and remember having to go to bed at 8:00pm the second night... I usually stayed up till 2am).
However, on the upside, I am now able to fall asleep quite easily at 11-12pm, I wake up pretty much without a problem at 7am (used to HATE mornings), lost some weight, blood pressure is slightly down, and I feel more awake throughout the day!
I would highly recommend deleting caffeine to anyone! Studies have shown caffeine users require a steady dose of caffeine just to maintain normal levels of brain activity. Without caffeine, you get sluggish, so you consume more- of course, that makes it hard to sleep, so you wake up sleepy- which leads to more caffeine!
I was drinking 9-10 diet sodas per day prior to dropping "the habit." Now, I drink carbonated flavored water from Walmart (Sam's White Grape- yummy, no sodium, sugar, caffeine, or anything else). Also, I have a glass of red wine every night around 9-10pm or so... an hour later I'm nicely drowsy and ready to go to bed.
Try it for a month- trust me, its one of the best things you can do... you'll feel MUCH better.
I haven't drank anything with caffeine in it for years now, I am hyper enough as it is with caffeine I am bouncing off the walls then I crash and your right more caffeine is usually the end result of drinking any caffeine. Oh and the wake up in the mornign thing I haven't used an alarm clock for about a few years now, even when I am up late caffeine seesm to mess with my internal clock.i am pretty sure i am hooked on trivex lens
Now THAT is a tragedy... the Trivex fumes must have altered your mind, because polycarbonate is an all-around better material (plus, those fumes have impeded your ability to capitalize "i"s :)). I prescribe a steady dose of 1.60 (which is also has several advantages over Trivex- including better drillability).
Have you ever tried giving up caffeine?
I've been caffeine-free for about 8 months now, and it was life-changing!
The withdrawal took about a week (I quit cold-turkey, and remember having to go to bed at 8:00pm the second night... I usually stayed up till 2am).
However, on the upside, I am now able to fall asleep quite easily at 11-12pm, I wake up pretty much without a problem at 7am (used to HATE mornings), lost some weight, blood pressure is slightly down, and I feel more awake throughout the day!
I would highly recommend deleting caffeine to anyone! Studies have shown caffeine users require a steady dose of caffeine just to maintain normal levels of brain activity. Without caffeine, you get sluggish, so you consume more- of course, that makes it hard to sleep, so you wake up sleepy- which leads to more caffeine!
I was drinking 9-10 diet sodas per day prior to dropping "the habit." Now, I drink carbonated flavored water from Walmart (Sam's White Grape- yummy, no sodium, sugar, caffeine, or anything else). Also, I have a glass of red wine every night around 9-10pm or so... an hour later I'm nicely drowsy and ready to go to bed.
Try it for a month- trust me, its one of the best things you can do... you'll feel MUCH better.
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this is my argument. I do not have the studies to back it up and only theory, but think about it. What response do you get when you drink? You are more excited, louder, your blood rushes, ect. When people use marijuana, they are more subdue.
You can better match the effects of the harder drugs with alcohol than marijuana. So with that theory, alcohol is way more of a gateway drug that marijuana.
I can personally say, anyone that has ever crossed paths with me and did hard drugs started with alcohol. I also find that people who drink get in far more trouble than those who use marijuana.
and to qualify this, almost everyone I know has smoked marijuana and drank.
A drug is a drug is a drug!
Yep:
- Beer
- Cigarettes
- Caffeine
- Tylenol
- Blood thinners
If we go by the 3rd definition in Webster's for "Drug..."
(3: something and often an illegal substance that causes addiction, habituation, or a marked change in consciousness)
I would say caffeine and sugar can be added to the list. Anyone who has ever had a child has to recognize the change in consciousness caused by sugar (the first time we gave a soda to my son Pierce, he was 3 or 4... I remember he drank it down, waited about 4 minutes, then proceded to stand up and run around in little circles till he fell over).
As for addiction, I don't think the boy's ever quit consuming sugar since! :D
Even turkey has an effect on the body (there is some chemical in it that causes people to become drowsy... maybe that's why I can't stay up through Thanksgiving football anymore- or maybe its because the Lions just suck so bad they aren't worth watching)!
L-tryptophan.
Whoa, after reading the posts here, I think Optiboard needs a Drug Addicts Forum !!
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Actually, one reason why I started this thread is because I was looking for opposition. Every time I see this conversation, it tends to be with younger individuals who are more liberal. Of course they are for it. Now this board tends to be pretty conservative, and it appears that with a few exceptions, it is pretty pro-removing barriers.
So if the Liberals are okay with it and the Conservatives are okay with it, then why is it so illegal?
I would assume that we are talking about unprescribed mood altering substances here and that we all know the difference between Metformin and cocaine.
This topic can be approached from many different angles, legal, social, spiritual and medical. A reasonably erudite case can be made for just about any argument, pro or con on the legalization of weed.
About the only substantive contribution that I can make to this discussion, which is very near and dear to my heart, is to share with you my personal experience which forms my present day opinions which I will now share with you. This is not a textbook or academic opinion; it was formed in my guts by my personal experiences.
Is weed a “gateway” drug? Yes and no. If you are born with an addictive personality (whatever that means) or are allergic to mood altering substances whatever you first substance of choice (or chance) happens to be you will be off and running. If you are blessed to not be afflicted, have a ball, no sweat.
My personal gateway drug was a bottle of Naragansett beer in June of 1956. I found hash and weed and opium a few years later in Vietnam and ended up on Morphine, Demerol, Ophthalmic cocaine on the job and when I couldn’t put my hands on those “legal meds,” heroin. I used and continued to drink until May of 1981. It was not pretty.
At present, in some states under some conditions (medical or small quantities for personal use) weed is legally obtainable. This trend will continue and we will soon see weed available and taxed right next to the Jack Daniels. We will probably see other substances (maybe even heroin) legally available under controlled conditions (much as Ritalin is presently used to control student behavior) and, of course, taxed.
Will we see an increase in substance use? I think not. The percentage of drug addicts or alcoholics is not a function of the availability or the cost of the substance. It’s just an allergy that a certain percentage of people are born with.
Are their any societal benefits to the legalization of drugs. First of all, the savings in Federal and State enforcement of the existing drug laws will free up tons of taxpayer money not to mention the reduction in prison populations. Hopefully some of these funds will be used for the rehab of alkies and druggies – when they are ready.
I would also think that the reduction in crime committed by the junkies would be drastically reduced. The one thing that I detest more than paying taxes is getting robbed by an addict on his way to his cooker.
Caffeine, nicotine and sugar are also addictive and in fact getting off them was much more difficult for me than anything else – fortunately the effects of their use are not nearly as devastating as crack cocaine.
Pete - Turkey . . . Mmmmm
Exactly! The conservative philosophy is, to paraphrase "government should stay out of my life, I'm a grown person and can make my own decisions, don't regulate me". And Liberals are all about freedom, love, sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll (heavy on the sex, please - ask Bill Clinton or Gary Hart:p). Both of these philosophies, you'd think, would be pro-legalization of marijuana.
Allergy - interesting concept. I've never thought of it in those terms. Some people say disease, others weakness. I prefer the "escape from reality" perspective, but maybe I'm just allergic to reality. On the weekends, anyway.
I use the term "allergy" because it is easy for me to understand. Medically, it is classified as a disease. Weakness doesn't make any sense to me as I have have seen far too many people die rather than put the bottle or syringe down. The addict no longer finds any escape once they cross that invisible line. So, allergy it is for this simple mind.
The description of the disease of alcoholism as an allergy was promulgated in the Akron, Ohio area by a physician and a stock broker in the late nineteen thirties and probably some three million people accept this definition today.
Because its drugs !!
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and so is oxycotin and tobacco and alcohol
...and drugs are bad mmmkay. Just look at all the side effects of the drugs you see advertised on TV.
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