FairTax.org

[GAgal]

What I do like about the fair tax is, everyone pays. This includes illegals, tourists, drug dealers etc...etc.
If you spend, you pay. I do not see the arguement for tax evasion either. How many people are actually evading state sales tax? How would it be different with a Fed sales tax?

I agree. Most individuals are not going to evade their taxes by making connections with the mafia, hell's angels, or drug cartel to get their fix for milk chocolate and beer. (We have Jacqui and Fezz for those things) No, they're going to go to the Walmart or corner market just like they do now. So, IMHO evasion and gang activity will not increase.

As for prohibition, alcohol consumption actually went down because alcohol was illegal, not taxed. Today, it's taxed heavily with a sin tax but still legal. As you can see, we still pay that tax because we want it.

[bob_f_aboc]

What percentage of people went to speakeasies during prohibition? To me, it is not about evasion as much as the increase in gangs.

If tobacco is made totally illegal in the US, that arguement might actually be relevent. Then people will be looking for any market available to purchase cigarettes.

Just watch out for the Huggies smugglers. Go into the back room and talk to Paco. He has diapers that just came in from Honduras. Instead of paying $15 at Wal-Mart + 25% tax, you can get them for $20.

A black market for legal items is not there for the price. Think of a loan shark. Lending money is legal. So why would someone go get a loan from the shed behind the gas station for 1000% interest and threat of physical harm when you can get a payday loan for 700% interest? Its to avoid a trail. Maybe there are a bunch of people that decided they didn't want the clerk at the gas station to tell their wives they were smoking again.

How much cheaper did the Hell's Angels sell cigarettes than the cost plus tax in a local convenience store?

[For-Life]

Cigarettes are heavily taxed here. Around $4 a pack is for taxes. I do not know how many packs are in in carton, but you are talking around 40% saving.

Thing is, we are making comparisons on items that are 5-6% different. If people are going to evade their taxes (and it is mostly white collar harmless individuals who do so), what will they do when the product has a 30% tax on it? You do not think they will be looking to buy the big ticket items either underground or outside of the nation? Think about California, Texas, Minnesota, and all of the States where they are minutes away from the border. Why buy it in the US when you can save 30% buying it somewhere else.

Will it happen for no products? No, but will happen for enough.

[Johns]

What percentage of people went to speakeasies during prohibition?

Worse yet, how many moonshine stills were there up in the mountains!!:D:D:D

Yeah, I can see it now...you're going to have folks growing there own tobacco, and all the folks will be flocking to smokeasies to avoid the dreaded tax.:hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer:

[GAgal]

Worse yet, how many moonshine stills were there up in the mountains!!:D:D:D

Hey! Moonshining is an honored family tradition 'round here. All I need is some copper tubing, corn, and a hot fire and I....I guess I better stop now before I give away my family recipe :cheers::p

[For-Life]

Worse yet, how many moonshine stills were there up in the mountains!!:D:D:D

Yeah, I can see it now...you're going to have folks growing there own tobacco, and all the folks will be flocking to smokeasies to avoid the dreaded tax.:hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer:

yeah, because people do not do outrageous things to evade paying taxes now. I think that hammer is causing you some damage.

where did I read that the fair tax proposal is only going to tax cigarettes and moonshine?

[Johns]

where did I read that the fair tax proposal is only going to tax cigarettes and moonshine?

Hey Getta-, I was just responding to your examples. I'm sure you've got more, like how kids will be dying in alleys because their mothers will be giving them tainted Tylenol purchased from Hell's Angels to avoid the tax.

[For-Life]

Hey Getta-, I was just responding to your examples. I'm sure you've got more, like how kids will be dying in alleys because their mothers will be giving them tainted Tylenol purchased from Hell's Angels to avoid the tax.

No, I just gave you a real example of something that actually has happened. Very sorry that you cannot get past the rhetoric to actually think about what would really happen.

[Johns]

rhetoric

[Fezz]

So no, you will not get tax evasion, but you will get underground markets and more international spending.

So.....are you saying that these underground markets will paying taxes? If not, is'nt that tax evasion?

[Johns]

So.....are you saying that these underground markets will paying taxes? If not, is'nt that tax evasion?

No, actually, Getta- is trying to say that people will be going to underground markets to avoid paying the taxes...that they'll be evading the sales tax instead of the income tax.

There will always be cheats. Some folks go through stop signs, but that doesn't mean we stop putting them up.

[Jubilee]

So you want to buy a computer, or TV....

Do you buy in the store with the 30% sales tax, or do you go through ebay, or other such outlets where you won't have the sales tax attatched to it?

Perhaps people won't do it with diapers, chocolate and milk.. however for larger purchases, perhaps even designer handbags, etc.. they might.

[Leo Hadley Jr]

So you want to buy a computer, or TV....

Do you buy in the store with the 30% sales tax, or do you go through ebay, or other such outlets where you won't have the sales tax attatched to it?

Perhaps people won't do it with diapers, chocolate and milk.. however for larger purchases, perhaps even designer handbags, etc.. they might.

Internet taxes will be enforced soon even without the fairtax. It has been all over the news here in Florida.

[Leo Hadley Jr]

Another thing to ponder.....

Most people here sell eyewear for a living. We have a lot of overhead and have to sell our products at a certain price to make a profit. Think about your payroll. How much income tax and social security are you paying for your employees? Is that not added to your cost of doing business?
This cost is embedded into the final retail cost.

The fairtax along with competition will lower prices across the board. If retail prices plunge 10-15% , the 23% fairtax is nothing considering you keep your whole paycheck.

[For-Life]

Internet taxes will be enforced soon even without the fairtax. It has been all over the news here in Florida.

they have been trying to do that since the late 90s :(

[For-Life]

Another thing to ponder.....

Most people here sell eyewear for a living. We have a lot of overhead and have to sell our products at a certain price to make a profit. Think about your payroll. How much income tax and social security are you paying for your employees? Is that not added to your cost of doing business?
This cost is embedded into the final retail cost.

The fairtax along with competition will lower prices across the board. If retail prices plunge 10-15% , the 23% fairtax is nothing considering you keep your whole paycheck.

again, how many people will you lose that will buy their glasses from another nation? Maybe it will not affect some states, but it will definitely affect the Northern ones.

[Leo Hadley Jr]

again, how many people will you lose that will buy their glasses from another nation? Maybe it will not affect some states, but it will definitely affect the Northern ones.

So, a Minnesotan goes to Canada to buy a car. How are they going to get it back across the border without declaring it through customs?
OR BETTER YET....

Why would anyone go to Canada to buy a car when it would probably be cheaper in the US even with the tax? Dont forget, prices will drop quite a bit without the embedded taxes and cars cost a lot more in Canada today then they do in the US.

[bob_f_aboc]

As soon as we implement the Fair Tax, we can transfer every IRS employee to Customs. With that many people at the ports, more illicit black market items will be caught and the tax evaders will be forced to pay more which will then make the sales tax price less than the black market price.

That way, everything that is confiscated at the ports and borders can be auctioned by the government and create more income for the government.

Taking it a step farther, the government will be able to sell this merchandise without the tax attached and still make money on it.

Besides, how do you expect someone that buys a car in Mexico to have it titled and licensed in the US before coming back across? I know that in several states when you title a car that is new to you, if you don't show a bill of sale with tax included, you pay the sales tax based on book value when you apply for title.

[Leo Hadley Jr]

As soon as we implement the Fair Tax, we can transfer every IRS employee to Customs. With that many people at the ports, more illicit black market items will be caught and the tax evaders will be forced to pay more which will then make the sales tax price less than the black market price.

That way, everything that is confiscated at the ports and borders can be auctioned by the government and create more income for the government.

Taking it a step farther, the government will be able to sell this merchandise without the tax attached and still make money on it.

Besides, how do you expect someone that buys a car in Mexico to have it titled and licensed in the US before coming back across? I know that in several states when you title a car that is new to you, if you don't show a bill of sale with tax included, you pay the sales tax based on book value when you apply for title.

So True

[Leo Hadley Jr]

http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/ads/FairTax_Jumper_Ad.pdf

[Leo Hadley Jr]

Just for fun, a list of all the taxes we pay here in the U.S.:

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest Expense (tax on the money)
Inventory Tax I
RS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes Toll
Tunnel Taxes
Trailer Registration
Tax Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers’ Compensation Tax

So we are taxed when we make money, spend money, save money, invest money -- and die.

[specti-wolf]

I think I just taxed out.

[Pete Hanlin]

One poster said recently about another problem that "anything is better than what we got." That is a very dangerous mindset.

Yep, a very VERY dangerous mindset indeed. I believe this was the mindset of the American people going into this last election, and (IMO anyway) a bad choice resulted.

Let's hope to avoid the same thinking regarding the concept of national health care.

I'm for a flat tax, btw.

[For-Life]

So, a Minnesotan goes to Canada to buy a car. How are they going to get it back across the border without declaring it through customs?
OR BETTER YET....

Why would anyone go to Canada to buy a car when it would probably be cheaper in the US even with the tax? Dont forget, prices will drop quite a bit without the embedded taxes and cars cost a lot more in Canada today then they do in the US.

Why would it be cheaper in the US?

There are Canadians that buy cars in the US, and pay slight differences. But cars is not the concern. There are tonnes of smuggling across the border every day. We are talking clothing, glasses, smaller electronics, ect. You get caught, so what? You just pay the duty.

[GAgal]

There are tonnes of smuggling across the border every day. We are talking clothing, glasses, smaller electronics, ect. You get caught, so what? You just pay the duty.

You are correct that paying the duty is all you have to do now if you get caught smuggling small items over the border, but I believe that this will change greatly if the government is only getting its money from a sales tax. I think that in addition to duties, the offender will also be slammed with smuggling charges and tax evasion in addition to other things we haven't even thought of yet. You don't play with Uncle Sam's money.:p