Online PD measurements................

[Chris Ryser]

So here we go again...........................

Prescription Eyeglasses/Sunglasses and Measuring Your Pupillary Distance (PD)

Pupillary Distance is the distance from the center of the pupil (black circle) in one eye to the center of the pupil in the other eye. This measurement is used to accurately center the lenses in the frame that you have selected. It's quite easy to have a friend or "loved one" calculate it for you (and then you have it for all future orders):

1. Place ruler (in mm) on the bridge of your nose.
2. Measure the distance between the centers of your pupils with your eyes looking into the distance (This can be done using a mirror or by a friend/spouse).

See picture at:

See picture at: http://glassesetc.com/buying-guide.h...088&source=pjn

[Barry Santini]

When I had to made eyewear for people far away (even progressives!), I would send them the frames, and tell them to take a picture of themselves wearing them, while holding a mm (or regular) ruler at the plane of their cheeks.

When I got the photo, I would simply use a compass to take the IPD and pupil height and "measure" it with the ruler, which, no matter what size the photo, is at the same scale!.

Pretty neat, eh?!

Barry

[EyeFitWell]

"You can also get this information from your doctor or from a licensed optician.

A good prescription should always have PD written in the first place."

Love it.

A good website should have proper grammar in the first place.

Do these people not know that OD's rarely take a PD, or are they just trying to make us look bad for not putting it on the Rx? I've heard this so many times, I'm honestly starting to wonder if they know this to be inaccurate and post it anyway.

[cwinma]

I have yet to have anyone enter my shop for a PD..... I'm still at a loss as to how I'll handle it ?

[rdcoach5]

When I had to made eyewear for people far away (even progressives!), I would send them the frames, and tell them to take a picture of themselves wearing them, while holding a mm (or regular) ruler at the plane of their cheeks.

When I got the photo, I would simply use a compass to take the IPD and pupil height and "measure" it with the ruler, which, no matter what size the photo, is at the same scale!.

Pretty neat, eh?!

Barry

Pretty neat , huh, Barry and Chris? Why don't you 2 scabs get off the forum? There is so much more to fitting glasses that you 2 should be and are aware of. Barry, who are you kidding, you want to be perceived as an " Optician" , yet you regularly tell the consumer that he only need his PD , which you regularly offer tips on estimating, to order his glasses. What a load of crap? I see patients everyday that cannot see through their eyeglasses until " I " Have adjusted them. Panto, wrap , vertex and base curve, along with proper alignment are critical and I see this EVERYDAY! Get the scabs off this board!!!!!!!!!

[MikeAurelius]

Pretty neat , huh, Barry and Chris? Why don't you 2 scabs get off the forum? There is so much more to fitting glasses that you 2 should be and are aware of. Barry, who are you kidding, you want to be perceived as an " Optician" , yet you regularly tell the consumer that he only need his PD , which you regularly offer tips on estimating, to order his glasses. What a load of crap? I see patients everyday that cannot see through their eyeglasses until " I " Have adjusted them. Panto, wrap , vertex and base curve, along with proper alignment are critical and I see this EVERYDAY! Get the scabs off this board!!!!!!!!!

WOW!! I think you need to apologize to Barry. In case you weren't aware, Barry is one of the more outspoken opponents of online eyewear, and his post above is tongue-in-cheek sarcasm (and this in a post that is almost two years old!!!).

You seriously need to chill yourself out, buddy.

[Barry Santini]

Thanks, mike, but i think i understand why his post is angry. To be clear, i dont think online eyewear can ever reach the highest levels of skill, accomplishment and service that the best B&M Optiboarders can.
And with online's unspoken "unbundling" of the classic dispensing paradigm, some ecps, IMHO, are getting too hung up in equating their value-added to the dispensing equation as one most attributed to their skill in taking measurements.
But everyone here knows its so much more than that.

True excellence and skilled-craft is but a small bullseye, while "merely adequate" pretty much takes in the rest of the target area. Its up to each consumer to decide what, where, how and when they want it.

My job, as I see it, is to be ready, willing, able and committed to delivering the best of what I can do.

Your mileage may vary. Its up to you.

B

No offense taken

[drk]

"Mr. Santini, thanks for taking time to talk with me, today.

I ordered these glasses from Zen Direct, and BTW thank you for your p.d. measurement. Well, I still can't see with them. They're blurry and I get a headache. Can you help me?"

"Well, sure, sit down and let me take a look. Hmm. Let's check the powers against the prescription. Do you have it with you?"

"No, sorry..."

"That's OK. We'll get a fax from Dr. Incomplete. I'll call you when we get it."

"OK, we've got the fax of the Rx. Please come back in."

"All right, show me your glasses. Ok, the lensometer reads a little off in the right eye. The axis of the astigmatism is off by 7 degrees on your -0.50 cylinder. Is it the right eye that's blurry?"

"Uh, not sure"

"Ok, let's go down the hall and look at the eye chart. Cover the left eye. What's the smallest line you can read?"

"20/25".

"Ok, what about the right eye covered?"

"20/25, but it's a little clearer."

"Hmm. Let's look at position of wear. I'm going to dot the optical centers and see how the p.d. looks. Let's see...OD 2mm outset, OS 2mm inset. Not sure if the yoke prism is causing you trouble, there..."

"Mr. Santini, I'm just getting kind of frustrated. I spent about $59 on this pair. How much will you charge me to just make the lenses right? Use this frame."

"Oh, that will be $109."

"Good, let's just do it. I'll never go online again."


Sound about right? What if she just says:

"Ugh. I spent $149 on these. I will return them for a refund. I'll come back when I get the money back, and maybe you can do a pair for me. How much are your glasses? That much, huh? Well, I guess you get what you pay for. See you, and thanks."

"Wait...Carole!"

"What?"

"Um, I don't know how to tell you this, but you owe me for the troubleshooting. It's...uh...$49, but you can use it on your next purchase!"

"$49?! I'm probably already out $20 just on shipping alone for these glasses as is! That's IF I get a refund at all. Why are you charging me $49?"

"Well, for the time I took to figure out exactly what was wrong with them..."

"Hey, I just should have returned them to Zen Direct the minute they didn't seem right. You only told me what I already knew...I can't see out of them! I feel like I'm getting totally ripped off by everyone, here! I'll have to talk to my husband. And I don't have $49 on me, either."

"Well, I'll send you a bill. Please consider that my time is valuable and I spent a total of probably 45 minutes with you troubleshooting."

"Sure. Whatever."

[Barry Santini]

Sure. it's a possible scenario.

So's Califiornia breaking off and floating toward Hawaii. Don't see anyone moving yet. You?

Same ol same ol. Citing a *worst case* scenario does not make an effective arguement for *every* case.

Or so I feel at this time.

B

[drk]

Even the best case is not that good. We'd have to be pretty desperate for that to be acceptable.

Middle scenario is you doing $15 pd's for a living.

[Barry Santini]

I see patients everyday that cannot see through their eyeglasses until " I " Have adjusted them. Panto, wrap , vertex and base curve, along with proper alignment are critical and I see this EVERYDAY!

Yeah, I used to have to do the same. Now mostly all I fit are POW compensated FF SV lenses. The panto, wrap, vertex, base curve are all pretty much accounted for in the intial set up. Follow up adjustments are, of course, still necessary. I'll tweak or modify their Rx before I begin, where necessary. And I'll tell them when a competant refraction is clearly indicated, and refer them to someone I know to be expert. I'm not scared of online. I'm just an alternative.

Just because I think that alot of people will find adequate eyewear online does not mean I've sold out. For me, its logic, science and experience. And I'll teach anyone, customer or ECP, what I know. Although I'm not a FOX news fan, I try to be fair and balanced in my approach to dispensin eyewear health advice about vision.

I'm sure you do too, rd. I just don't get as incensed about what online represents. And I'm prepared to change my opinion when I can support it with enough impartial and scientific facts.

I'll listen to what all have to say, as long as you will allow me to change my thinking with the information presented. I'm not afraid to be consistently inconsistent with my past thinking.

B

[HarryChiling]

For those provideing PD's why not just open an online site? Seriously.

[rdcoach5]

Sure. it's a possible scenario.

So's Califiornia breaking off and floating toward Hawaii. Don't see anyone moving yet. You?

Same ol same ol. Citing a *worst case* scenario does not make an effective arguement for *every* case.

Or so I feel at this time.

B

It happens everyday , Barry

[rdcoach5]

Yeah, I used to have to do the same. Now mostly all I fit are POW compensated FF SV lenses. The panto, wrap, vertex, base curve are all pretty much accounted for in the intial set up. Follow up adjustments are, of course, still necessary. I'll tweak or modify their Rx before I begin, where necessary. And I'll tell them when a competant refraction is clearly indicated, and refer them to someone I know to be expert. I'm not scared of online. I'm just an alternative.

Just because I think that alot of people will find adequate eyewear online does not mean I've sold out. For me, its logic, science and experience. And I'll teach anyone, customer or ECP, what I know. Although I'm not a FOX news fan, I try to be fair and balanced in my approach to dispensin eyewear health advice about vision.

I'm sure you do too, rd. I just don't get as incensed about what online represents. And I'm prepared to change my opinion when I can support it with enough impartial and scientific facts.

I'll listen to what all have to say, as long as you will allow me to change my thinking with the information presented. I'm not afraid to be consistently inconsistent with my past thinking.

B

Barry, I don't know if you have to deal with the patient load that I do , but online Rx's are a night mare. I just had a VA Pt in for the 2nd time for an adjustment on his free VA glasses.They don't fit and no matter what heroics I do, and I do, they are not right. Online is only going to be worse.FWIW

[Barry Santini]

Update:
So this gentleman, young, came in. Told him the fee up front, $15, he agreed and the measurementS were made. He left saying, "I'll be back!" (shades of Schwarzenegger!)

Still too early to say how all this stuff will pan out. But I'm glad to get some opportunities to put my thoughts to it directly.
Thanks, all, for your discussion and input.
I'm not really sure how ill handle a scenario like yours, rd. But i see your point.

B

[hcjilson]

Barry, I don't know if you have to deal with the patient load that I do , but online Rx's are a night mare. I just had a VA Pt in for the 2nd time for an adjustment on his free VA glasses.They don't fit and no matter what heroics I do, and I do, they are not right. Online is only going to be worse.FWIW

If VA stands for Vetran's Administration those glasses were not FREE. They were provided by a government that thought one's service to one's country should be recognized for life. The material costs of those glasses are gladly borne by the
American taxpayer.The balance of the "worth" of those glasses was blood, sweat and tears. Those glasses are anything but Free.

If the implication in your post was that VA glasses were poorly fit or made, it is your OBLIGATION to contact VA and see that the job is done correctly. If you need assistance in that regard, contact your local VA and they will advise you how to proceed.

[Golfnorth]

Update:
So this gentleman, young, came in. Told him the fee up front, $15, he agreed and the measurementS were made. He left saying, "I'll be back!" (shades of Schwarzenegger!)

Still too early to say how all this stuff will pan out. But I'm glad to get some opportunities to put my thoughts to it directly.
Thanks, all, for your discussion and input.
I'm not really sure how ill handle a scenario like yours, rd. But i see your point.

B

Yes I'm sure he'll be back. Back to get you to fit and service his online glasses and taking you away from servicing your
"regular" clientel who are paying the freight.

Regards,
Golfnorth

[uncut]

Update:
So this gentleman, young, came in. Told him the fee up front, $15, he agreed and the measurementS were made. He left saying, "I'll be back!" (shades of Schwarzenegger!)

Still too early to say how all this stuff will pan out. But I'm glad to get some opportunities to put my thoughts to it directly.
Thanks, all, for your discussion and input.
I'm not really sure how ill handle a scenario like yours, rd. But i see your point.

B

So.....by enabling him, you also sanctioned the act, and set up the "conditioning" that this act is "acceptable" in your eyes. Of course, he'll be back....with his family members, friends, and co-workers, giving you the "opportunity" to enable, sanction, and condition others.....So....what will you say, when that cop, or schoolbus driver, or administrator of your parent's seniors Home wants you to "enable" them in the same act?

[Barry Santini]

I'm not ready to argue against that the scenarios decribed above will happen. Let's make an experiment out of this and see where it goes over time.

I dont see internet eyewear as bad. I just see it as several levels down from excellence, and unbundled from any of the comprehensive accompanying services and warranties that purchases made at good B&M's included. This view allows less$ to equal less. And i reallynthink all should rethink the primacy of their PD prowess. Its a new world out there, and PDs can be adequately taken, for SV, in ways other than what we're familiar with.

And remember all of this when you offer for sale OTCs.

B

[Barry Santini]

So.....by enabling him, you also sanctioned the act, and set up the "conditioning" that this act is "acceptable" in your eyes. Of course, he'll be back....with his family members, friends, and co-workers, giving you the "opportunity" to enable, sanction, and condition others.....So....what will you say, when that cop, or schoolbus driver, or administrator of your parent's seniors Home wants you to "enable" them in the same act?

At this time? Probably "That'll be $15 please" And if adjustments become a problem in the same way, $15 per visit. At least that's my idea at this time. We'll see...

B