Opticians know nothing about sales???

[For-Life]

So get this. Next fall, I will be teaching a class called "Sales and Merchandise." Basically, it deals with high involvement sales such as cars, big screen tv's and moving up to houses and $500k insurance plans. It will also deal with the business to business side of it, such as sales reps coming to our store and selling product.

I took this class several years ago, and sent a facebook message to those who took it with me. Basically, I want to know what they liked/disliked/and potential improvements.

This one guy, who we always knew to be kind of an idiot, sent me this message that the guy who taught the class before spent years (he worked at a bank for four years selling investments) in selling, and that compared to him, I bring no value to the table. I told him that I spent over 10 years in sales. He tried to tell me that opticals are low involvement (meaning that people will not think through their purchase and just buy it based on repetition) and easy to do, and that it is no where close to car or tv sales.

Honestly, I think we know far more than tv salespeople, as we are professionals. Also, please do not get upset by the word "sales" because we are in a medical profession. The fact is, we do have to be good sales people. We just do not have to be greasy or cheesy. Instead, we need to be knowledgable, courteous, and insightful.


Anyways, just needed to vent. I really resent being told that I know nothing about working with customers.

[charan]

So get this. Next fall, I will be teaching a class called "Sales and Merchandise." Basically, it deals with high involvement sales such as cars, big screen tv's and moving up to houses and $500k insurance plans. It will also deal with the business to business side of it, such as sales reps coming to our store and selling product.

I took this class several years ago, and sent a facebook message to those who took it with me. Basically, I want to know what they liked/disliked/and potential improvements.

This one guy, who we always knew to be kind of an idiot, sent me this message that the guy who taught the class before spent years (he worked at a bank for four years selling investments) in selling, and that compared to him, I bring no value to the table. I told him that I spent over 10 years in sales. He tried to tell me that opticals are low involvement (meaning that people will not think through their purchase and just buy it based on repetition) and easy to do, and that it is no where close to car or tv sales.

Honestly, I think we know far more than tv salespeople, as we are professionals. Also, please do not get upset by the word "sales" because we are in a medical profession. The fact is, we do have to be good sales people. We just do not have to be greasy or cheesy. Instead, we need to be knowledgable, courteous, and insightful.


Anyways, just needed to vent. I really resent being told that I know nothing about working with customers.

i think opticians are pretty good at sales why do you think people come in and say "just looking" from a mile away but i dont think we can be compared with car sales or electronic sales people with all due respect ofcourse.

[For-Life]

i think opticians are pretty good at sales why do you think people come in and say "just looking" from a mile away but i dont think we can be compared with car sales or electronic sales people with all due respect ofcourse.

You mean that because we are more professional? Or that they tend to know more sales wise?

[Barry Santini]

You are so right about "Opticians know nothing about sales"

This *fact* is rammed home to me almost every day, when women (especially) inform me that their daughter/grandaughter/niece/sister/etc., "knows" *what will look well on me.*

Sheesh!

Barry

[For-Life]

You are so right about "Opticians know nothing about sales"

This *fact* is rammed home to me almost every day, when women (especially) inform me that their daughter/grandaughter/niece/sister/etc., "knows" *what will look well on me.*

Sheesh!

Barry

good point. Opticians also know nothing about optics, because their friend told them...

[charan]

You are so right about "Opticians know nothing about sales"

This *fact* is rammed home to me almost every day, when women (especially) inform me that their daughter/grandaughter/niece/sister/etc., "knows" *what will look well on me.*

Sheesh!

Barry

hahaha thats so true :cheers:

[HarryChiling]

So get this. Next fall, I will be teaching a class called "Sales and Merchandise." Basically, it deals with high involvement sales such as cars, big screen tv's and moving up to houses and $500k insurance plans. It will also deal with the business to business side of it, such as sales reps coming to our store and selling product.

I took this class several years ago, and sent a facebook message to those who took it with me. Basically, I want to know what they liked/disliked/and potential improvements.

This one guy, who we always knew to be kind of an idiot, sent me this message that the guy who taught the class before spent years (he worked at a bank for four years selling investments) in selling, and that compared to him, I bring no value to the table. I told him that I spent over 10 years in sales. He tried to tell me that opticals are low involvement (meaning that people will not think through their purchase and just buy it based on repetition) and easy to do, and that it is no where close to car or tv sales.

Honestly, I think we know far more than tv salespeople, as we are professionals. Also, please do not get upset by the word "sales" because we are in a medical profession. The fact is, we do have to be good sales people. We just do not have to be greasy or cheesy. Instead, we need to be knowledgable, courteous, and insightful.


Anyways, just needed to vent. I really resent being told that I know nothing about working with customers.

Coming into this industry from a B2B sales position selling phone services and advertising I would agree with the guy, most opticians don't know squat about sales.
Sales encompasses all of the ugly things as well as the purchase, in some fields you have to generate your own leads and believe me there are many companies that will plop you down with your leads in the form of a yellow pages and put you in front of a manual dial phone to get busy. In many industries you will hear "NO" 90 out of "100" times and out of that 10 that stay on the phone you have to weave your magic just to get a further appointment to come in and follow up on. Not to mention you have to build repoire with your client when your talking about sales of items that aren't impulse buys and cultivate a relationship with the account, not to mention any number of blunders when Shaniqua from customer service hangs up on the guy when he's calling to get more info. It's greulling but rewarding work but let me tell you sitting in an office saying "the doctor recommends" or "I would recommend" isn't my definition of sales.

[Judy Canty]

Coming into this industry from a B2B sales position selling phone services and advertising I would agree with the guy, most opticians don't know squat about sales.
Sales encompasses all of the ugly things as well as the purchase, in some fields you have to generate your own leads and believe me there are many companies that will plop you down with your leads in the form of a yellow pages and put you in front of a manual dial phone to get busy. In many industries you will hear "NO" 90 out of "100" times and out of that 10 that stay on the phone you have to weave your magic just to get a further appointment to come in and follow up on. Not to mention you have to build repoire with your client when your talking about sales of items that aren't impulse buys and cultivate a relationship with the account, not to mention any number of blunders when Shaniqua from customer service hangs up on the guy when he's calling to get more info. It's greulling but rewarding work but let me tell you sitting in an office saying "the doctor recommends" or "I would recommend" isn't my definition of sales.

Perhaps not exactly the same. However, convincing an ECP to use my lab as opposed to another is definitely sales. :shiner: I'm not just a pretty face anymore. I better know my stuff.

[optical24/7]

I don't know. Maybe we can learn something from used car sales persons...


"Yes sirree, this new 09 model comes with a temple tip to temple tip warranty. 36 days, or 36,000 steps, which ever comes first...... Ah..You'll need to wear this pedometer for validation..."

" Now I knew you'd like this little gem. Go ahead, put it on, take it for a spin around the dispensary. Can't ya just see yourself cruisin' down the sidewalk and the looks you'll get!?"

" This is our used selection. Most were only worn for a week or less. We also got a few dent and scratch models that I can make you a deal on...."


We've got great financing here!...What's the limit on your credit card again??..."




:D:cheers::D

[HarryChiling]

Perhaps not exactly the same. However, convincing an ECP to use my lab as opposed to another is definitely sales. :shiner: I'm not just a pretty face anymore. I better know my stuff.

Judy,

Your position is slightly removed from the dispensing or lab optician, you've crossed the line into sales and you know that your position is more sales than optician. The optician part helps in your product knowledge but your not fitting any of the doctor sin lenses or making frame and lens recommendations other than those offered by your lab. I think the big differenc is when that you have to pursue yoru clients in a cat and mouse chase whereas the average optician is like a cat waiting outside of a hungry mouses hole (the exam room) if your quick enough and still have claws your gonna get a meal.

[Uilleann]

... Also, please do not get upset by the word "sales" because we are in a medical profession. The fact is, we do have to be good sales people...

I would disagree 100%. In two decades, I've never "sold". If I've been asked to, I have left that practice - rapidly. There is certainly truth in that many (indeed likely most) practices and particularly chains do try to "sell" their patients. To each their own, and success to all. Best of luck with your presentation! :cheers:

[chip anderson]

Salesmen know about sales. Opticians know about optics.
Some of even concider "selling" as an evil but possibly nescessary form of lying.

Chip

[For-Life]

Coming into this industry from a B2B sales position selling phone services and advertising I would agree with the guy, most opticians don't know squat about sales.
Sales encompasses all of the ugly things as well as the purchase, in some fields you have to generate your own leads and believe me there are many companies that will plop you down with your leads in the form of a yellow pages and put you in front of a manual dial phone to get busy. In many industries you will hear "NO" 90 out of "100" times and out of that 10 that stay on the phone you have to weave your magic just to get a further appointment to come in and follow up on. Not to mention you have to build repoire with your client when your talking about sales of items that aren't impulse buys and cultivate a relationship with the account, not to mention any number of blunders when Shaniqua from customer service hangs up on the guy when he's calling to get more info. It's greulling but rewarding work but let me tell you sitting in an office saying "the doctor recommends" or "I would recommend" isn't my definition of sales.

I agree, but B2B sales are different than B2C ones. This is where I am getting B2B person to come in. FYI, the guy was talking about B2C.

[For-Life]

Perhaps not exactly the same. However, convincing an ECP to use my lab as opposed to another is definitely sales. :shiner: I'm not just a pretty face anymore. I better know my stuff.

It definitely is

[For-Life]

I don't know. Maybe we can learn something from used car sales persons...


"Yes sirree, this new 09 model comes with a temple tip to temple tip warranty. 36 days, or 36,000 steps, which ever comes first...... Ah..You'll need to wear this pedometer for validation..."

" Now I knew you'd like this little gem. Go ahead, put it on, take it for a spin around the dispensary. Can't ya just see yourself cruisin' down the sidewalk and the looks you'll get!?"

" This is our used selection. Most were only worn for a week or less. We also got a few dent and scratch models that I can make you a deal on...."


We've got great financing here!...What's the limit on your credit card again??..."




:D:cheers::D

I want to be careful here. Sales is not just being greasy here. It can be, but it is not exclusive. If I have someone come in looking for glasses and they have been at Vision Works, I have show them frames and show that we have a better selection than the competitor. Then, I have to assist them in their choice. Then (though it should probably come first), I have to sit them down and go through the lenses, talk to them about it, and help them make the choice.

[For-Life]

I would disagree 100%. In two decades, I've never "sold". If I've been asked to, I have left that practice - rapidly. There is certainly truth in that many (indeed likely most) practices and particularly chains do try to "sell" their patients. To each their own, and success to all. Best of luck with your presentation! :cheers:

Ok, I just want to stop everything here, this will go for Chip's reply too. I know what you guys mean. We are trained professionals that are doing medical services ect. I agree, 100%

But if someone comes into your practice, you can know all the optics in the world and do nothing. Knowing optics is not putting the client into a new pair of glasses. You are making a sale.

NOW, I know we think of used car salespeople. Lets get beyond that for a second. That is a tactic. For us, we using information and our knowledge of optics. We sit down with the client and explain things.

So please, lets not clog up this discussion with what your prefer term is to be called.


So lets define high involvement sales, so no one else is confused - Someone is looking for a new product or service. This is not a choice that they can make quickly like laundry detergent. They want someone to sit down with them and explain the best option for them, and why. At that point, they make a purchase.

That is a sale.

[For-Life]

Salesmen know about sales. Opticians know about optics.
Some of even concider "selling" as an evil but possibly nescessary form of lying.

Chip

it is the tactic used by many that is evil

Chip, you are extremely knowledgeable. But I do not think you walk into your business in the morning, pull up your stool, and money just funnels in with your knowledge. You have to do something to get that money from the customers to you. Exchanging a product/service for money perhaps?


if you guys do not want to call it sales, let's call it something else. Do opticians have experience working with patients to get them to exchange a product or service for money?

[chip anderson]

Actually My first 20 or so years in retail I had 5 (God love 'em) Ophthamologist in the building with me and a dozen or so in nearby areas who sent me patients for contact lenses and prosthetic eyes. These men did not dispense anything but by the time the patient got to me he/she was sold. All I had to do was a good job. For the most part most of the competion was from in- to only simi- competent in these areas so all I had to do was the best I could, no selling involved.

Unfortunately the business has evolved where the non-dispensing OMD is nearly vanished species and competence at least in contact lenses is seldom required as apearently the read the box one size fits all seems to be upon us.

However, I still reguard selling as demeaning and seem to be still be able to make a living without it. Although I do admit I can't get by with being as arrogant as in the past, and must do a bit of product showing and lens "education" now days.

Chip

[For-Life]

Actually My first 20 or so years in retail I had 5 (God love 'em) Ophthamologist in the building with me and a dozen or so in nearby areas who sent me patients for contact lenses and prosthetic eyes. These men did not dispense anything but by the time the patient got to me he/she was sold. All I had to do was a good job. For the most part most of the competion was from in- to only simi- competent in these areas so all I had to do was the best I could, no selling involved.

Still a sale, but it would be classified as low involvement. The consumer already knew what they wanted and came to you with the intention of buying it.

However, I still reguard selling as demeaning and seem to be still be able to make a living without it. Although I do admit I can't get by with being as arrogant as in the past, and must do a bit of product showing and lens "education" now days.

Chip

Okay, let's use a different term from selling then, can we? You do see what I mean. You are helping patients making a decision with your knowledge. So let's call that "Chipping."


So basically, this guy told me I had no experience in Chipping.

[Laurie]

...it is not as simple as Dale Carnegie,

When an optician has a passion for optics, vision and optical-cosmetics, the sales will follow. One pair will not fulfill all needs, and what is good for the patient is good for the practice.

What exactly do you teach? (you have 'other' listed in your profile).

As an optician since 1979 and an optical educator since 1989, I can tell you that I don't teach sales...I teach optical theory, try to translate this to and nurture an inspiration for optics, and teach cool-tone/warm-tone color draping, facial analysis/frame fitting, to create the best visual prosthetic device that looks fabulous with a PH!

We (opticians) are strange, but necessary animals...we must be able to translate high-tech optical knowledge into user-friendly benefits to combine funtion and fashion.

Not sure how you translate that into a sales course, w/o a heavy optical baseline prior to the sales course.

?

: )

Laurie

[For-Life]

...it is not as simple as Dale Carnegie,

When an optician has a passion for optics, vision and optical-cosmetics, the sales will follow. One pair will not fulfill all needs, and what is good for the patient is good for the practice.

What exactly do you teach? (you have 'other' listed in your profile).

As an optician since 1979 and an optical educator since 1989, I can tell you that I don't teach sales...I teach optical theory, try to translate this to and nurture an inspiration for optics, and teach cool-tone/warm-tone color draping, facial analysis/frame fitting, to create the best visual prosthetic device that looks fabulous with a PH!

We (opticians) are strange, but necessary animals...we must be able to translate high-tech optical knowledge into user-friendly benefits to combine funtion and fashion.

Not sure how you translate that into a sales course, w/o a heavy optical baseline prior to the sales course.

?

: )

Laurie

On top of my regular job, I teach one class in the fall and one in the winter at the University. The fall one will be a third year Sales and Merchandise class, and the winter one is a second year Principals of Marketing class. I am currently teaching the second year class (for the first time), and they added the fall one too for me.

I am actually no longer in the optical industry, but started young and was in it for 11 years. Family business. So I already have more experience than any Ph.D :p

So let's say I have a future optician in the class. My main lesson to him or her would be that once you learn the optics, how to understand/listen/work with/inform the client, ie: Chipping. I will not be teaching greasy used car sales tactics, ie: Jim-Bobbing.

[71pagoda]

An optician is a salesman with optical knowledge. When a new patient walks into your shop you have to SELL them on you. There is nothing wrong with being a salesman. If a lady picks out a Sillouette 3 piece mount or a standard frame, they both are fit her correctly, they both look great, and she has no problem with the difference in price wouldnt you try to SELL her the more profitable frame? . Whats wrong with SELLING multiable pairs? Every presbyope could use a few pair of reading glasses.

[For-Life]

An optician is a salesman with optical knowledge. When a new patient walks into your shop you have to SELL them on you. There is nothing wrong with being a salesman. If a lady picks out a Sillouette 3 piece mount or a standard frame, they both are fit her correctly, they both look great, and she has no problem with the difference in price wouldnt you try to SELL her the more profitable frame? . Whats wrong with SELLING multiable pairs? Every presbyope could use a few pair of reading glasses.

Well that is not what I am trying to get into. To me, sales can be helping the patient make the best choice for him/her. In that case, I would pick what frame I felt was best for her, if there is a difference. Now, there are many situations where maybe the other frame is plastic, and I may put the idea of two pair into her head.

But the main difference is why should I buy from you instead of someone else?

[renee1111]

An optician is a salesman with optical knowledge. When a new patient walks into your shop you have to SELL them on you. There is nothing wrong with being a salesman. If a lady picks out a Sillouette 3 piece mount or a standard frame, they both are fit her correctly, they both look great, and she has no problem with the difference in price wouldnt you try to SELL her the more profitable frame? . Whats wrong with SELLING multiable pairs? Every presbyope could use a few pair of reading glasses.

:cheers: Exactly! Come on people...we are taking ourselves a little too seriously here...we're not rocket surgeons! ;) We do sell eyewear, that's what we do! Well some of us fit (sell) contacts and dispense (or sell) low vision devices too. There's absolutely nothing wrong with selling (legal) products, to make a living.

[Laurie]

Hello Again For-Life,

Not to nit-pick (Lord knows I hate to be on the receiving end of nit-picking...) (as in 'Aberration instead of Distortion', Chip and Barry!)...

...

It is all about being engrossed in optical dispensing...yes, you can send a nice message through the future MBA/non-(or possibly future) opticals, citing the benefits of optical sales as a case study/example...

Is your intention to do a fabulous job of teaching sales, or is it your intention to recruit future optical people?

An optician is a salesman with optical knowledge. When a new patient walks into your shop you have to SELL them on you. There is nothing wrong with being a salesman. If a lady picks out a Sillouette 3 piece mount or a standard frame, they both are fit her correctly, they both look great, and she has no problem with the difference in price wouldnt you try to SELL her the more profitable frame? . Whats wrong with SELLING multiable pairs? Every presbyope could use a few pair of reading glasses. 02-24-2009 01:10 AM

I agree. Tough to split it out. One of our nearest and dearest optician/educator/speaker, Ed De Gennaro, coined a description of what we do..."Ophthalmanship"...combining the best of both worlds.

: )

Laurie