What happened?

[Bill West]

we've all been




SCREWED

[Jacqui]

Are those the shoes that go straighter when they are thrown??

Outstanding restraint ladies, I tried giving some rep points but I've got to spread some around first!:cheers: xxoo's from hj

Thanks Harry :D

[gemstone]

Wrong. The tide will not turn until "American companies" (those who have and control wealth) are willing to accept less, and share more with those who work for them (notice I didn't say "give to those who don't work at all").

During the Clinton administration, there was a lot of wealth to be had (ahhhh... good times), often with little effort. Young people were aware of this, and their expectations were set. They could get their education in computer science or business, and make six figures in their first year out of school.

That environment is gone - but the young executives of "American companies" want to maintain their low effort / high income life. The only way they can do this is to lay off or underpay the people who are generating their wealth. Good for themselves in the short-term, very bad for America in the long term.

Yes indeed, if only bill clinton were in charge now......................................................... ............................................................ .................................................
............................................................ .................................................
So much for pipe dreaming (no pun) And everybody is going to buy American cars , not cause the are a better deal, cause the are American. Also people are going to go back to the local Mom and Pop hardware store instead of WalMart.

[RT]

Thats my point. It's not the governments fault. Its our fault for placing unmerited faith in the government to meet all of our needs, wants and desires.

Sorry. I have to agree with Shanbaum. Who is the "we" here? I honestly can't think of a single person I know that is looking to the government for "all of our needs, wants, and desires". It sounds like a rich retired guy trying to resurrect the Reagan-era myth of the Welfare Queen. Face it, Rbaker, you've been in a much more likely position to affect government policy over the last 50 years than a welfare mother, given your stature. If there's a failing, you should be looking at the leaders, not the followers. Where were you?

With very few exceptions, the women should stay home and take care of the babies, clean the house and cook the sauce. The male is the warrior the woman is the keeper of the hearth.

Possibly the most stupdily offensive quote ever on Optiboard. That's a compliment, given how fierce the competition is.

[Judy Canty]

Sorry. I have to agree with Shanbaum. Who is the "we" here? I honestly can't think of a single person I know that is looking to the government for "all of our needs, wants, and desires". It sounds like a rich retired guy trying to resurrect the Reagan-era myth of the Welfare Queen. Face it, Rbaker, you've been in a much more likely position to affect government policy over the last 50 years than a welfare mother, given your stature. If there's a failing, you should be looking at the leaders, not the followers. Where were you?



Possibly the most stupdily offensive quote ever on Optiboard. That's a compliment, given how fierce the competition is.

Bravo! :cheers:

[LilKim]

Yeah, perhaps he'd like to tell that one to my aunt Sharon who's an RN and a Commander in the Navy, or my cousin Angela who's stationed at a base in Oregon with the Air Force! LOL!!! Either one of them could slap him silly.

[gemstone]

Yeah, perhaps he'd like to tell that one to my aunt Sharon who's an RN and a Commander in the Navy, or my cousin Angela who's stationed at a base in Oregon with the Air Force! LOL!!! Either one of them could slap him silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CW0h...eature=related

[Jacqui]

Possibly the most stupdily offensive quote ever on Optiboard. That's a compliment, given how fierce the competition is.

Wonderful !! Thank you !!

P.S. Points added :)

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[DocInChina]

The fact stands, as the present rules apply, the tide will not turn until American workers are willing to work for much, much less money. That can't happen because of minimun wage laws. The American companies can't compete, in general with slave labor or slave labor wages. I am not kicking minimum wages, just stating obvious facts. Don't believe me? Take a look at your frame displays. If you don't like it, change the rules.

Is this a veiled reference to China and Chinese workers? :angry:

[DragonLensmanWV]

Sorry. I have to agree with Shanbaum. Who is the "we" here? I honestly can't think of a single person I know that is looking to the government for "all of our needs, wants, and desires". It sounds like a rich retired guy trying to resurrect the Reagan-era myth of the Welfare Queen. Face it, Rbaker, you've been in a much more likely position to affect government policy over the last 50 years than a welfare mother, given your stature. If there's a failing, you should be looking at the leaders, not the followers. Where were you?



Possibly the most stupdily offensive quote ever on Optiboard. That's a compliment, given how fierce the competition is.

In all fairness to Dick, I think during that post he had his tongue firmly in cheek. At least I hope so.

[gemstone]

Is this a veiled reference to China and Chinese workers? :angry:

Please tell me what the average pay is for a chinese factory worker?

[DocInChina]

Please tell me what the average pay is for a chinese factory worker?

Average pay varies from province to province. I believe in Guangdong the minimum take home salary for an entry level factory worker is 800RMB. Add to this food allowance + dorm + health insurance + social security + pension + payroll tax. Take home salaries for experienced/skilled factory workers increases significantly.

[Johns]

Average pay varies from province to province. I believe in Guangdong the minimum take home salary for an entry level factory worker is 800RMB. Add to this food allowance + dorm + health insurance + social security + pension + payroll tax. Take home salaries for experienced/skilled factory workers increases significantly.

Doc,

Thanks for clearing that up for us! When I started in this business, I was only making 650 RMB. Things have certainly improved!;)

[DocInChina]

Doc,

Thanks for clearing that up for us! When I started in this business, I was only making 650 RMB. Things have certainly improved!;)

as of today 1USD = 6.82RMB

[Johns]

as of today 1USD = 6.82RMB

Now that really helps!:cheers::D

[gemstone]

Average pay varies from province to province. I believe in Guangdong the minimum take home salary for an entry level factory worker is 800RMB. Add to this food allowance + dorm + health insurance + social security + pension + payroll tax. Take home salaries for experienced/skilled factory workers increases significantly.

Per year?

[DocInChina]

Per year?

Sorry, that is monthly minimum wage. Workers with any experience to significant experience have higher salaries. Also, most workers make bonuses on productivity, yield, sales, etc.

[gemstone]

Sorry, that is monthly minimum wage. Workers with any experience to significant experience have higher salaries. Also, most workers make bonuses on productivity, yield, sales, etc.

I am calculating around $118 per month. How many hours per week do they work?

[DocInChina]

I am calculating around $118 per month. How many hours per week do they work?

A typical work day is 8 hours but of course hours can vary depending on the company. Work week can be 5 or 6 days. Again specifics depend upon the employee, company, salary. Every employee has a contract and all contracts have to comply with the labor laws.

When you calculate, the minimum wage factory worker package: take home after taxes is 118USD/month + housing + food + medical insurance + pension. For the 118USD to mean something convert it to 800RMB. The purchasing power of 1RMB in China for most consumer necessities is equivalent to 1USD purchasing power. Companies with more skilled/educated personnel can pay 2,000 to 20,000RMB/month. Without taking into account cost of living, geographic location, profitability of the business it is hard to translate what the dollar value really means. By no means is a minimum wage worker in China (or the US or anywhere in the world) living large. However, most minimum wage employees (or any salaried employees) outside of China do not get housing, food, pension and health insurance covered in their employment package.

[MarcE]

So, here we sit in the early spring of 2009 wondering just what the hell went wrong. How could the “government” let things get so screwed up?

How?

Laissez faire economics. Lack of oversight and planning brings us to this "tragedy of the commons".

That is the answer you looking for, right?

The increase in the standard of living over the last 150 years is directly and proportionally related to the increased use, availability and relative inexpensivenes of energy (specifically fossil fuels).

We are blowing through God's "trust fund" of fossil fuels like a cocain addict. When we get to the downward slope of availability (and of course increased cost), THEN you will see a REAL decrease in the standard of living.

[Johns]

Laissez faire economics. Lack of oversight and planning brings us to this "tragedy of the commons".

That is the answer you looking for, right?

The increase in the standard of living over the last 150 years is directly and proportionally related to the increased use, availability and relative inexpensivenes of energy (specifically fossil fuels).

We are blowing through God's "trust fund" of fossil fuels like a cocain addict. When we get to the downward slope of availability (and of course increased cost), THEN you will see a REAL decrease in the standard of living.

This story is told in it's entirety in "Game Over" a recent bestseller.

[gemstone]

A typical work day is 8 hours but of course hours can vary depending on the company. Work week can be 5 or 6 days. Again specifics depend upon the employee, company, salary. Every employee has a contract and all contracts have to comply with the labor laws.

When you calculate, the minimum wage factory worker package: take home after taxes is 118USD/month + housing + food + medical insurance + pension. For the 118USD to mean something convert it to 800RMB. The purchasing power of 1RMB in China for most consumer necessities is equivalent to 1USD purchasing power. Companies with more skilled/educated personnel can pay 2,000 to 20,000RMB/month. Without taking into account cost of living, geographic location, profitability of the business it is hard to translate what the dollar value really means. By no means is a minimum wage worker in China (or the US or anywhere in the world) living large. However, most minimum wage employees (or any salaried employees) outside of China do not get housing, food, pension and health insurance covered in their employment package.

You went :angry: at my first post in this thread because you missed my point. I was not kicking the Chinese worker at all. My point was that you would be hard pressed to find someone of entry level rank in the USA that would be willing to show up for the money that the Chinese worker is paid. They will not even show up for minimum wage.

[DocInChina]

You went :angry: at my first post in this thread because you missed my point. I was not kicking the Chinese worker at all. My point was that you would be hard pressed to find someone of entry level rank in the USA that would be willing to show up for the money that the Chinese worker is paid. They will not even show up for minimum wage.

I did not miss your point at all. Your slave wages comment was inappropriate. You are choosing to use some data to support your agenda. You are converting the Chinese currency into US currency and then leaping to the conclusion that the minimum wage worker gets paid no money. The purchasing power of 800RMB in China is far greater than what 800RMB could purchase in the US. Additionally, if US minimum wage had the same benefits as mainland China minimum wage (housing, food, medical insurance and a retirement plan) you would find many takers for those positions in the US.

[gemstone]

I did not miss your point at all. Your slave wages comment was inappropriate. You are choosing to use some data to support your agenda. You are converting the Chinese currency into US currency and then leaping to the conclusion that the minimum wage worker gets paid no money. The purchasing power of 800RMB in China is far greater than what 800RMB could purchase in the US. Additionally, if US minimum wage had the same benefits as mainland China minimum wage (housing, food, medical insurance and a retirement plan) you would find many takers for those positions in the US.

Go ahead and take offense then. It is your choice.

[DocInChina]

Go ahead and take offense then. It is your choice.

This was your original quote:

The American companies can't compete, in general with slave labor or slave labor wages. I am not kicking minimum wages, just stating obvious facts. Don't believe me? Take a look at your frame displays. If you don't like it, change the rules.

Since most of the eyewear on your frame board is likely coming from China, your reference to slave labor and slave wages not only shows your lack of education regarding this topic but is in fact insulting to people in China (including foreign registered companies, domestic companies as well as workers). I leave off with a famous quote:

Abraham Lincoln It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.