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Thread: The method of selecting good sunlenses

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    Wave The method of selecting good sunlenses

    With regard to selecting good sunglasses, as far as I know, there are the following methods.

    1. See label and find "Bloc UV 99%, 100% or upto 400nm
    2. Darkness doesn't guarantee blocking hamful lights.
    3. Expensive one doesn't mean the best quality one.
    4. Big frame is good because any hamful light can be blocked at any angle.

    Do you agree with me or would you add some more?
    :)

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    5. not acetate lenses
    6. polarized
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    If they ain't polarized they ain't much in the sun.

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    OptiBoard Professional Kyle's Avatar
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    "Good sunglasses" can mean so many things.

    The most incredible lenses can be worthless if the frame doesn't fit properly.

    Even the smallest of frames can provide adequate protection - it all depends on how/when/where the patient will be using them; if a patient chooses a frame with a small B, it may work just fine while driving (the car's roof will block from above) but be horrible at the beach. A frame with a large B and extra thick temples may work great at the beach but block too much peripheral vision for safe and comfortable driving.

    The best situation is one in which you have a high quality, ophthalmically ground, distortion-free lens whose base and bevel curves have been optimized both for the prescription (if any) and frame, and a frame that fits the face comfortably, blocking light where needed.

    Anti-reflection on the backside of the lens is ideal in some cases but not in others. That also holds true for mirror coatings. Polarized lenses are not indicated in all cases - pilots should NOT wear them, at least while flying - but are very much the ideal for maximum glare blockage.

    Above all - know your patients' needs and be able to deliver the products that meet them.

    kk

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    Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrumblydumpus View Post
    5. not acetate lenses
    Would you ... could you tell me why "not acetate lenses"?
    Maybe, the deformability by the strong sun???:):)

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    1. Glass Polarised Lens
    2. Backside AR
    3. Quality frame .

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    Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post

    Anti-reflection on the backside of the lens is ideal in some cases but not in others. That also holds true for mirror coatings. Polarized lenses are not indicated in all cases - pilots should NOT wear them, at least while flying - but are very much the ideal for maximum glare blockage.

    kk
    If you explain more, it would be really appreciated....

    1. Why does Anti-reflection on the backside of the lens is ideal in some cases associated with Sunglasses function?

    2. "That also holds true for mirror coatings." What does it mean to Sunglass Function?

    3. "Polarized lenses are not indicated in all cases - pilots should NOT wear them, at least while flying -" What are the reasons?

    I might forget the teaching in the class long years ago...:)

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    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    ...Anti-reflection on the backside of the lens is ideal in some cases but not in others. That also holds true for mirror coatings. Polarized lenses are not indicated in all cases - pilots should NOT wear them, at least while flying - but are very much the ideal for maximum glare blockage.

    Above all - know your patients' needs and be able to deliver the products that meet them.

    kk
    Kyle,

    I'll respectfully but completely disagree with both of these points. Let me explain:

    A backside A/R is all but essential on a dark lens. Think of white spray paint on a clear piece of glass. Then think of the same on a dark tinted glass. It looks like a chalk board, and the white shows FAR more readily than it will on the clear glass. So while you can make a sun lens without backside A/R, I have yet to find a situation where it was contraindicated. Mirrors on the front side make a backside A/R even more critical, as the visible reflections can often become even more exaggerated on the back surface without A/R.

    As to the point about pilots - this is simply not true in every case. I am a pilot, and I know M-A-N-Y others that fly, both commercial, and all variety of various and sundry civi aircraft. The fear was once that the polarization would interfere with the digital displays in the cockpit causing them to appear blacked out. However in absolutely NONE of the cockpits I've ever occupied has this been a problem. I spent a good three years of my training bringing two pair of sunglasses just in case - but never needed the non-polar pair. You may find that with some older digital indicators, or perhaps hand held GPS, there may be some interference, but not as a rule from the cockpit windscreens or displays.

    I will tell you that when you're up on top (above the cloud deck) on a bright sun day, there is nothing that performs as well as a polar lens on that insane glare!

    You may want to check with law enforcement and/or fire response; their in-vehicle laptops LCD screens do sometimes have negative interactions with polar suns.

    All the best!

    Brian~
    Last edited by Uilleann; 01-22-2009 at 04:14 PM.

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    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eoptics View Post
    If you explain more, it would be really appreciated....

    1. Why does Anti-reflection on the backside of the lens is ideal in some cases associated with Sunglasses function?

    2. "That also holds true for mirror coatings." What does it mean to Sunglass Function?

    3. "Polarized lenses are not indicated in all cases - pilots should NOT wear them, at least while flying -" What are the reasons?

    I might forget the teaching in the class long years ago...:)

    Polarized won't work in many scenarios for instance on the golf course they can significantly impact a game when you lose the subtleties of the polarization coming off the grass.

    Mirror coatings on the front help to further reduce the transmission of the lens and add a cosmetic appeal to the sunglasses, you can just as easily rely on absorbtion of the lenses instead of reflection and it's cheaper to tint. Of course if the client is interested in the cosmetics of it a mirror is a good choice.

    Anti Reflectvie on the back side helps to reduce teh 2 highest intensity ghost images. The intensity of the ghost images on the back side of a poly lens is 4 to 5% without factoring the effects from the tint. Now when a mirror is applied to the front surface it MUST be coupled with an AR on the back to reduce the increase in intensity of ghost images same applies when the tint is really dark an AR becomes necessary to function properly.

    I would also add that a slight bit of wrap to a sunglass helps with ghost images so it is a nice feature to have a slightly wrapped sunglass to reduce the intensity of the reflected images as well as to provide coverage from the sides.
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    What I think is the main most reason for backside AR.
    One of the main reasons for Polarized lenses at least down heah is fishing. If the light source (usually the Sun) is behind the wearer the reflection off the posterior of the lens back to the eye can be near blinding at some angles and most definitely obviate any benefits from the polarized lens.

    On pilots and ski(ers) one can supposedly gain some sort of insight at the quality of surfaces one is about to encounter on water, snow and ice that is not available to them with polarized lenses. Not being a pilot or a snow bunny I have no experience with this.

    Now the golfers I have encountered. All but the pros and pro-wannabe's tell me that the polarized lenses help thier game. The pros and pro-wannabe's tell me that polarization interferes with thier ablility to "read the green." I am also no a golfer so I have never had to "read a green."

    Personally I have notice a "three D effect" with polarized lenses but not so much that I would want to be without the polarized benfits.


    Chip
    Last edited by chip anderson; 01-22-2009 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Three D

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    OptiBoard Professional Kyle's Avatar
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    Brian, I'll also respectfully point out that this is the internet and an internationally populated forum. The planes you've flown may be indicative of your experience but not necessarily of someone else's. That said, I value your point - a simple query to determine instrument layout/display type may paint a more accurate picture of need.

    As to the contraindication of AR, let's be practical - a farmer riding his/her tractor all day plowing up a field of dried up cotton plants is not likely to benefit much from the coating. In fact, I've yet to find a single AR that holds up to the rigors of that kind of lifestyle without significant modification of eyeglass hygene habits. I'll assure you I've enough experience (20yrs) to draw a very informed conclusion on this matter but your clientelle may have altogether different requirements. I will say that if that same farmer in the dell wanted a high-performance lens for times spent OFF of the tractor, you betcha I'm recommending backside AR.

    Your final point regarding law inforcement is spot on. Thanks for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Polarized lenses are not indicated in all cases - pilots should NOT wear them, at least while flying

    kk
    The FAA says only that pilots shouldn't wear polaroids if the windscreen is also polarized. I contacted both Boeing and Airbus; neither have ever used polarized windscreens (they don't use all poly/Lexan like I thought-they use a laminate of poly/glass/poly). LCD displays, being polarized, can be blacked out if you twist your head and sunglasses to a certain angle, but that angle is highly atypical (you have to practically twist your neck off) just as for laptop screens, etc. Of course, a pilot might sometime have to read a display while hanging upside down and backwards during an emergency. Nonetheless, the FAA doesn't forbid polaroids. Two patients of ours, one a 777 guy, the other a 737 guy, both use polaroid lenses, and not out of ignorance. They imply that there is disagreement among professional pilots about this, and that the first generation of digital readouts weren't polarized obliquely as is the case today, which made polaroids totally unuseable back then.

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    OptiBoard Professional Kyle's Avatar
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    And Chip,

    I ski a fair amount and can say that the snow really seems "flat" when I wear a polarized filter. This isn't too good when your grade goes beyond 45 degrees. Of course that changes with differing solar angles and light conditions but for the most part I just like my non-polarized high contrast vermillion/persimmon lenses.

    My mother, at one point an avid hiker, also had difficulty as she would often be on moist to downright muddy surfaces - she had a hard time trying to determine how "slick" the ground was and would often stumble. I don't have this problem but I can appreciate it.

    kk

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    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Kyle,

    I'll respectfully but completely disagree with both of these points. Let me explain:

    A backside A/R is all but essential on a dark lens. Think of white spray paint on a clear piece of glass. Then think of the same on a dark tinted glass. It looks like a chalk board, and the white shows FAR more readily than it will on the clear glass. So while you can make a sun lens without backside A/R, I have yet to find a situation where it was contraindicated. Mirrors on the front side make a backside A/R even more critical, as the visible reflections can often become even more exaggerated on the back surface without A/R.

    As to the point about pilots - this is simply not true in every case. I am a pilot, and I know M-A-N-Y others that fly, both commercial, and all variety of various and sundry civi aircraft. The fear was once that the polarization would interfere with the digital displays in the cockpit causing them to appear blacked out. However in absolutely NONE of the cockpits I've ever occupied has this been a problem. I spent a good three years of my training bringing two pair of sunglasses just in case - but never needed the non-polar pair. You may find that with some older digital indicators, or perhaps hand held GPS, there may be some interference, but not as a rule from the cockpit windscreens or displays.

    I will tell you that when you're up on top (above the cloud deck) on a bright sun day, there is nothing that performs as well as a polar lens on that insane glare!

    You may want to check with law enforcement and/or fire response; their in-vehicle laptops LCD screens do sometimes have negative interactions with polar suns.

    All the best!

    Brian~
    Wow, you almost mirrored what I was saying and I didn't even see your post. I wrote an article on the subject of ghost images and intensity of reflections if anyone is interested please send me a PM with e-mail address.
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    Polarized lenses were an obvious no-no when I was with CASARA, Civilian Air Search and Rescue, since any glint from the windows or windshield of a downed aircraft might not be seen with a spotter wearing polarized lenses. Likewise for a downed pilot using a signal mirror.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Nelson View Post
    Polarized lenses were an obvious no-no when I was with CASARA, Civilian Air Search and Rescue, since any glint from the windows or windshield of a downed aircraft might not be seen with a spotter wearing polarized lenses. Likewise for a downed pilot using a signal mirror.
    Thanks for the fresh perspective - I thought that the whole issue was instruments - that's why life is so good, there is always something that someone else knows that expands one's universe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Brian, I'll also respectfully point out that this is the internet and an internationally populated forum. The planes you've flown may be indicative of your experience but not necessarily of someone else's. That said, I value your point - a simple query to determine instrument layout/display type may paint a more accurate picture of need.

    As to the contraindication of AR, let's be practical - a farmer riding his/her tractor all day plowing up a field of dried up cotton plants is not likely to benefit much from the coating. In fact, I've yet to find a single AR that holds up to the rigors of that kind of lifestyle without significant modification of eyeglass hygene habits. I'll assure you I've enough experience (20yrs) to draw a very informed conclusion on this matter but your clientelle may have altogether different requirements. I will say that if that same farmer in the dell wanted a high-performance lens for times spent OFF of the tractor, you betcha I'm recommending backside AR.

    Your final point regarding law inforcement is spot on. Thanks for that.
    Kyle - thanks for the response. I do understand the general demographic of the posters and viewers of the boards here. :) And yes - we ARE in fact, all a bunch of crazies!!

    As to the aviation thing, I may have a bit more of a pilot demographic than many might otherwise I would guess. We've got a major class B international airport 10 minutes from our dispensary (with our local ANG base located there), 9 regional ports (bunch of class D with two C's) within a half hour, an air force base 20 minutes north and two glider ports close by as well. We do quite a few FAA class A-C medicals in office as well. As a strange and quirky add-on, we also have several astronauts who come in. So we've got everything from F-22's, C-130's, Cessnas, Pipers, Mooneys, Lears, Hawkers, Gulfstreams, those wacky Beech Starships, Falcons, P-51's, every major type of Canadair RJ, Boeing & Airbus you can imagine, sailplanes...and yes, those two guys who used to fly the shuttle. (they're retired now though).

    And out of all of them, the ONLY one who's ever come back to me or even mentioned a problem was one flight instructor who said she had problems with the radio and clock in her car (but nothing in the cockpit), and one private flyer who did struggle a little with his portable GPS/moving map display.

    Now I haven't been up in a couple years with any regulairty myself (if you think CAR fuel is expensive!!) But the last time was up in a glass cockpit (all digital with just the absolute minimum analog backup dials) and I had a new pair of Rx Maui Jims with me for the flight. Not a single problem with any of the displays, including the yoke mounted GPS in that plane. Never had any troubles during all of my training either. I expect that the likes of Garmin, Bendix/King, Honneywell etc. may be working to design panels that don't interfere with the horizontally oriented polarization of sunglasses much at all. I'm not privy to their insider mfr techniques, but that would stand to reason.

    As for the two astronuts, The NASA brand sunglasses are decidedly more expensive than ours, and in truth, I am unaware as to the polarized or not nature of the launch/re-entry visors currently. All I can say is I hope they are cause have you SEEN how orange those pumkin suits are?! Sting your retina's those suits will! CRIKEY! ;)

    Interesting comments in general here on the snow thing as well. Most of our skiiers actually prefer polar lenses on the mountain it seems. That's far and away the biggest request we get - Rx or otherwise. I think the color and density is more of a concern to most there. We also have a ton of fly fishermen out here and polar is just about all they'll wear - for the obvious reasons.

    All the best!

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    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Nelson View Post
    Polarized lenses were an obvious no-no when I was with CASARA, Civilian Air Search and Rescue, since any glint from the windows or windshield of a downed aircraft might not be seen with a spotter wearing polarized lenses. Likewise for a downed pilot using a signal mirror.
    This is interesting Dave - thanks for sharing. For my own part, I've never known of any polar lens that would eliminate 100% of reflected glare such as the scenario you describe here - but I can understand how in a time critical situation, you would want to maximize any potential indicators such as a glint of sunlight from a windscreen. The mirror I would think however, to be almost completely unaffected by a polar filter at all.

    Were you involved in many S&R's? I keep thinking about all the effort spent looking for Steve Fossett when he went down a year and a half ago. Tragic stuff.

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    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann
    Most of our skiiers actually prefer polar lenses on the mountain it seems.
    I am nut when it comes to skiing and I'll tell you never ever wear polar when skiing. A few years back I thought I was good enough I could ignore that and I wore a pair of polars on the hills and made it through most of the day, but when the tempature dropped at night and the patches froze over I was falling all over the place and even busted up my knee on a dip on the trail I just didn't see. I caution all skiiers now that it's not even a preference it's dangerous to skii with polar lenses on.
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    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    We've fit most of the folks from the US Ski team here at one point or another as they practice on the mountains at Park City and Deer Valley frequently, and for their sunnies, and many goggles, the vast majority have asked for polar. Now if you ski anything like I do, it will take more than fancy-pants glasses (helmet, football padding, parachute, pillow strapped to my butt, and my top secret force field) to keep me from leaving the bowls and chutes unscathed! :shiner:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    We've fit most of the folks from the US Ski team here at one point or another as they practice on the mountains at Park City and Deer Valley frequently, and for their sunnies, and many goggles, the vast majority have asked for polar. Now if you ski anything like I do, it will take more than fancy-pants glasses (helmet, football padding, parachute, pillow strapped to my butt, and my top secret force field) to keep me from leaving the bowls and chutes unscathed! :shiner:



    Oh, this must be you then:


    Dainese lends protective help to U.S. Ski Team pool Wednesday, 22 August 2007
    PARK CITY, Utah — The U.S. Ski Team has named noted action-sports safety equipment provider Dainese as an official supplier. Dainese will provide helmets, goggles and body protective gear, according to Associate Athletic Director Dale Schoon.
    “Partners like Dainese play an important role in helping athletes achieve their goals safely,” said Schoon. “We’re especially happy to add a company with as diverse a sports background as Dainese to our supplier team.”
    “We are very excited to offer our product, safety protection knowledge and technical support to the top U.S. Ski Team athletes,” said Dainese Business Development Director Alessandro Zamuner. “We are confident that this partnership will yield successful results in competitions as well as provide great promotion of Dainese safety gear in the U.S. market.”
    Helmets and goggles are critical components in ski competition. Body protective gear, including arm guards, shinguards and back protectors, are increasingly important. For example, arm guards and shinguards are critically important in slalom where athletes ski at high speeds through closely spaced gates, coming in contact with many of the spring-loaded slalom poles. And back protection is becoming more important in alpine ski racing and freestyle moguls and aerials.
    U.S. Ski Team athletes train year-round and compete each winter on a global World Cup circuit in addition to the Olympic Winter Games every four years.
    Dainese has been a leader in protective apparel for people who engage in dynamic sports including skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking, water sports and motorcycling since 1972. The company got its start in motocross, moving into mountain biking, skiing and snowboarding in the 1970s. Its mission is providing “head-to-toe protection for people who engage in dynamic sports.”
    Dainese joins a supplier team of more than 50 companies providing valuable support to U.S. Ski Team athletes.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

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    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    Oh, this must be you then:


    Dainese lends protective help to U.S. Ski Team pool Wednesday, 22 August 2007
    PARK CITY, Utah — The U.S. Ski Team has named noted action-sports safety equipment provider Dainese as an official supplier. Dainese will provide helmets,goggles and body protective gear, according to Associate Athletic Director Dale Schoon.
    “Partners like Dainese play an important role in helping athletes achieve their goals safely,” said Schoon. “We’re especially happy to add a company with as diverse a sports background as Dainese to our supplier team.”
    “We are very excited to offer our product, safety protection knowledge and technical support to the top U.S. Ski Team athletes,” said Dainese Business Development Director Alessandro Zamuner. “We are confident that this partnership will yield successful results in competitions as well as provide great promotion of Dainese safety gear in the U.S. market.”
    Helmets and goggles are critical components in ski competition. Body protective gear, including arm guards, shinguards and back protectors, are increasingly important. For example, arm guards and shinguards are critically important in slalom where athletes ski at high speeds through closely spaced gates, coming in contact with many of the spring-loaded slalom poles. And back protection is becoming more important in alpine ski racing and freestyle moguls and aerials.
    U.S. Ski Team athletes train year-round and compete each winter on a global World Cup circuit in addition to the Olympic Winter Games every four years.
    Dainese has been a leader in protective apparel for people who engage in dynamic sports including skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking, water sports and motorcycling since 1972. The company got its start in motocross, moving into mountain biking, skiing and snowboarding in the 1970s. Its mission is providing “head-to-toe protection for people who engage in dynamic sports.”

    Dainese joins a supplier team of more than 50 companies providing valuable support to U.S. Ski Team athletes.
    Yes - I suppose we could be considered along with all the other suppliers. The big difference here however, is that we're not a "sponsor". We're not paying them to come in and purchase eyeglasses or goggles or giving away free Rx's. :bbg:
    Last edited by Uilleann; 01-22-2009 at 07:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    I am nut when it comes to skiing and I'll tell you never ever wear polar when skiing. A few years back I thought I was good enough I could ignore that and I wore a pair of polars on the hills and made it through most of the day, but when the tempature dropped at night and the patches froze over I was falling all over the place and even busted up my knee on a dip on the trail I just didn't see. I caution all skiiers now that it's not even a preference it's dangerous to skii with polar lenses on.
    Harry, what tint color do you use?? Is there one that is better for skiing?
    ___________________________________________

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heather A View Post
    Harry, what tint color do you use?? Is there one that is better for skiing?

    It depends on where you're skiing, what time of the day it is, and what the weather is like. I like the Rudy Project interchangeable lens systems for covering most conditions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    It depends on where you're skiing, what time of the day it is, and what the weather is like. I like the Rudy Project interchangeable lens systems for covering most conditions.
    Good point...it would make sense to have different colors! :) Those wrap, too, right? I would imagine that would be important to keep the breezes from getting in.
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