Crizal Forte?

[For-Life]

So I got an email from my old employer that Essilor is coming out with a new AR that is as hard as glass.

Anyone hear about this?

[Chris Ryser]

So I got an email from my old employer that Essilor is coming out with a new AR that is as hard as glass.

Anyone hear about this?

Love tha one .............................if put on glass it will be like glass, what it is anyhow..................

.................but when put on plastic lenses it will be the superb invitation for crazing andchipping.

I make a hard coat that is hard as glass and works beautiful on metal but has to be softened for use on optical lenses because it would craze at any temperature change.

[For-Life]

Love tha one .............................if put on glass it will be like glass, what it is anyhow..................

.................but when put on plastic lenses it will be the superb invitation for crazing andchipping.

I make a hard coat that is hard as glass and works beautiful on metal but has to be softened for use on optical lenses because it would craze at any temperature change.

It will not be as hard as glass on CR-39, but the point is that it is harder.

[HarryChiling]

Love tha one .............................if put on glass it will be like glass, what it is anyhow..................

.................but when put on plastic lenses it will be the superb invitation for crazing andchipping.

I make a hard coat that is hard as glass and works beautiful on metal but has to be softened for use on optical lenses because it would craze at any temperature change.

Chris,

That's what interest me what did they have to sacrifice to get the coating harder?

[Chris Ryser]

Chris,

That's what interest me what did they have to sacrifice to get the coating harder?

Harry..........actually nothing. The AR coating base is SIO2 (silicone dioxide) which in turn is glass + plus some oxides as per their own fromula.

The next is the hard coat, which is not really a hard coat, but a medium to adhere to the plastic lens, and in turn have a maximum adherance to the AR layer. So its there to make the AR stick to plastic.
On glass lenses this is a total non issue.

This coating layer can be made harder or softer, but there is point of saturation. When made too hard it will simply craze or delaminate with temperature changes. The Essilor's are smart enough to know that and have done a good job at it so far. It's all just a logic simple fact.

And if that hardness is actually harder, it would probably be a non measurable fraction and I would put it into the category of BS to make more money, with more claims of a super duper premium AR coating that some opticians will pick up with pleasure.

You can't make the SIO2 layer any harder than it is

[For-Life]

Harry..........actually nothing. The AR coating base is SIO2 (silicone dioxide) which in turn is glass + plus some oxides as per their own fromula.

The next is the hard coat, which is not really a hard coat, but a medium to adhere to the plastic lens, and in turn have a maximum adherance to the AR layer. So its there to make the AR stick to plastic.
On glass lenses this is a total non issue.

This coating layer can be made harder or softer, but there is point of saturation. When made too hard it will simply craze or delaminate with temperature changes. The Essilor's are smart enough to know that and have done a good job at it so far. It's all just a logic simple fact.

And if that hardness is actually harder, it would probably be a non measurable fraction and I would put it into the category of BS to make more money, with more claims of a super duper premium AR coating that some opticians will pick up with pleasure.

You can't make the SIO2 layer any harder than it is

What about Hoya Super Hi?

It is measured as harder than competitor ARs.

[Jacqui]

You can't make the SIO2 layer any harder than it is

What about making a harder seal coat on top of the AR stack??

[rinselberg]

http://www.essilor.co.uk/lensinfo/co...izalforte.html

Here's some of what Essilor has to say about it..

[Happylady]

Another Crizal product? Is this one supposed to be better the Avance?

[Uilleann]

I heard something about this lens from our E rep about a week ago. From what he's been told so far, it's not really a replacement for Avancé as such - more of an enhancement to it's durability and longevity. But the branding there using the "Forte" (Forté?) name make me wonder. Perhaps that's just the European branding of Avancé? Time will tell I'm sure...

[Chris Ryser]

But the branding there using the "Forte" (Forté?) name make me wonder. Perhaps that's just the European branding of Avancé? Time will tell I'm sure...

that means strong ................or stronger, which translates into

fort (fôrt, frt) n. 1. A fortified place or position stationed with troops.
2. A permanent army post.

[Middle English, strength, stronghold, from Old French, strong, strength, from Latin fortis; see bhergh-2 in Indo-European roots.]

[apaul]

Crizal Forte has been out a while now just wondered how you guys are getting along with it, is it as good as essilor claim?

In the UK they say if they get scratched there is a no quibble gurantee for 2 years that they will replace the lenses

I just replaced a pair, the lenses were clearly abused pit marks etc however it transpires that it is still our call whether the lenses get replaced or not

So the gurantee is for us and not the consumer is this correct?

Alan

[DragonLensmanWV]

So I got an email from my old employer that Essilor is coming out with a new AR that is as hard as glass.

Anyone hear about this?

Probably the same as the new Hoya AR.

[FVCCHRIS]

So I got an email from my old employer that Essilor is coming out with a new AR that is as hard as glass.

Anyone hear about this?

Like Glass My **S! :shiner:

Let me guess, I'll bet it's more expensive right?? I don't care what they "SAY" about it. I will not upgrade my A/R choice a single step further until it comes with a CHEAPER price.

[AWTECH]

Harry..........actually nothing. The AR coating base is SIO2 (silicone dioxide) which in turn is glass + plus some oxides as per their own fromula.

The next is the hard coat, which is not really a hard coat, but a medium to adhere to the plastic lens, and in turn have a maximum adherance to the AR layer. So its there to make the AR stick to plastic.
On glass lenses this is a total non issue.

This coating layer can be made harder or softer, but there is point of saturation. When made too hard it will simply craze or delaminate with temperature changes. The Essilor's are smart enough to know that and have done a good job at it so far. It's all just a logic simple fact.

And if that hardness is actually harder, it would probably be a non measurable fraction and I would put it into the category of BS to make more money, with more claims of a super duper premium AR coating that some opticians will pick up with pleasure.

You can't make the SIO2 layer any harder than it is

I with Chris on this one. The plastic, (of any current lens type is not as hard as glass), must have a way to bond and support this tough outer layer. Almost all AR's have been using, "Glass" as there final layer for years. To get better test results the hard coating must beable to support the toughness.

[For-Life]

Like Glass My **S! :shiner:

Let me guess, I'll bet it's more expensive right?? I don't care what they "SAY" about it. I will not upgrade my A/R choice a single step further until it comes with a CHEAPER price.

Do you have the stats to back all of this up? Even if it is not as hard as glass, but is significantly harder, doesn't that mean something?

[Happylady]

The new Avance AR is hands down the best AR I have ever seen and I have been wearing and selling AR since 1986. It stays clean. I have never had another AR that stayed clean, not Teflon, not Hoya High Vision, not Carat Advantage, not Alize.

[KStraker]

Probably the same as the new Hoya AR.

I think most of Hoya's stuff if proprietary, even though they may be chemically similar. Hoya uses something called substrate matching to help prevent crazing due to temp change. The lens and the coating expand at the same rate.

[RT]

Probably the same as the new Hoya AR.

Probably not.

[DragonLensmanWV]

Probably not.

I should have said the idea's been copied from Hoya. I have a pair of the new EX3 on id Lifestyle on order for my surgeon's wife.

[FVCCHRIS]

Notice how the "NEW" products all seem to hit the market in waves? Especially new progs, and A/R coats. It's just a game of oneupmanship(?) being played, as usual. Can't let the other guy come out with something w/o/ a response from us. ;)

[optigrrl]

Probably the same as the new Hoya AR.

Most probably NOT.

[optigrrl]

The new Avance AR is hands down the best AR I have ever seen and I have been wearing and selling AR since 1986. It stays clean. I have never had another AR that stayed clean, not Teflon, not Hoya High Vision, not Carat Advantage, not Alize.

Avance is supposedly in the category of Super Hi Vision from Hoya. Comparing it to Teflon or Hi Vision is like comparing a cast mold progressive to digitally surfaced. (no offense Teflon, but it is hard to keep clean and it is about the same bayer rating as Hi Vision :))

[For-Life]

I can easily say that Forte, Alize and Avance are superior in ease of clean to Super Hi. I have a pair of lenses with Super Hi and all I notice is how hard they are to clean

[Chris Ryser]

I can easily say that Forte, Alize and Avance are superior in ease of clean to Super Hi. I have a pair of leses with Super Hi and all I notice is how hard they are to clean

Oh Boy.................what a love for the big corporation.