Oh boy, what a person who has NEVER had his hands on either product.Originally Posted by Chris Ryser
Don't tell me that I have love for the Big Corporation. I have actually worn and used BOTH products. You have not.
:finger:
Oh boy, what a person who has NEVER had his hands on either product.
Don't tell me that I have love for the Big Corporation. I have actually worn and used BOTH products. You have not.
:finger:
I meant Super Hi Vision, not Hi Vision. I think Avance is much easier to clean and stays clean longer. I know lots of you don't like Essilor and think Avance is too expensive but if you tried it you would see what I mean.
I don't see a need to upgrade any further if it means having to either charge our patients more or eat the increase ourselves. We are talking about something we need only warrant for about 2 years, then the patient will need new lenses anyhow. The present products available, like the Essilor products you have mentioned and which I use most often are just fine with me(and the patients). I will not pay more. Putting a paint job on a car that costs more than the car itself is not a smart way to go. That may be a poor analogy but oh well.
Chris Beard
The State of Jefferson !
I'm a Medford man – Medford, Oregon. Up in Medford, we take our time making up our minds."
If you don't offer the best you don't know if your patient is willing to buy it. Not all patients will but I find that many people are willing to pay more for an AR lens that stays clean and is very scratch resistant.
But....these days I'm spending too much time trying to explain to people why a single charge for A/R one one pair of lenses will get them two complete pairs of glasses from Rip-Off Mart. Yes, it does make a difference to some but lately it's just a hard sell to some very cranky people.
Chris Beard
The State of Jefferson !
I'm a Medford man – Medford, Oregon. Up in Medford, we take our time making up our minds."
Because Wal-Mart sells junk AR. If they want glasses that they cannot see out of in 6 months, then they can go there.
We offer something better.
I agree.
Chris Beard
The State of Jefferson !
I'm a Medford man – Medford, Oregon. Up in Medford, we take our time making up our minds."
In their defense - Wally offers a pretty nice A/R. However - and this surprises a LOT of folks from the general public to ECP's - they ain't all that cheap! An average set of frames and lenses can easily run well over three Benjamen's there. Granted, not every patient will opt for the best - and even if they do, Wally doesn't offer any real warranty to back up the product. Two months tops out here when I checked last about a month ago, and nothing as far as scratching or abuse.
Avancé is to date, the best A/R lens I've had a chance to dispense in any number, and at any price. We've given up on Hoya A/R's including the Super Hi, as it simply didn't have the durability nor clean-ability of Crizal's current offerings. Whatever the choice, both Hoya and Essilor will back up their A/R lenses with a decent warranty.
All the best! :cheers::cheers:
And I have also personally tried Alize vs Super Hi Vision and in my experience they were equal for cleanability, but SHV was more scratch resistant (I did my own abraision test on a cement floor w/ Stainless, Alize and SHV). I dispensed Hoya for years without 1 single complaint about the cleanability of SHV. I have also dispensed Alize, Crizal, Teflon, Stainless and Zeiss ET. Avance came out right before I left dispensing.
Last edited by optigrrl; 12-03-2009 at 09:19 PM. Reason: mixed up the many names for ELOA Ar's
High price replaces good advice..................
I am wondering why not anybody on this thread write about educating the customer, who at the end is the abuser of an expensive instrument.
If manufacturer makes a superior product and gives a lifetime warranty which is about 2 years when a new Rx is due, he is charging an arm and a leg for his service that will cover the cost of a few re-makes before he adds his profit. Therefore you pay for the re-makes out front and so do your customers.
But it makes for an easer sale when you push these products.
The other solution is to educate the customer properly on how to handle a delicate product. It is not only a matter of superior quality at a high price, it is also a matter of professional advice to the ones that can not afford the superior product, which then could make a less expensive version a successful product.
or you realize the day to day uses of products and make them better, so that those abuses can be avoided.
Chris, if it was all about education, we would all still be using Word Perfect 3.0. No one would need an easier to use software.
If it was all about education, we would not have air bags in vehicles, because people would drive safer.
We have airbags because the government needs to protect us from ourselves, not because they make cars safer.
well yeah, we do not want people having their heads smashed all over their steering wheel. I am glad that the government encourages air bags. When a crazy driver cuts me off, I will have my head preserved.
But the government did not create air bags, just so you know. And there is tremendous, and I mean TREMENDOUS (like bigger than Essilor tremendous) demand for them)
I never said the gov't created air bags they just took the choice to either purchase from the consumer or install from the manufacturer increasing the cost of motor vehicles. and if you are driving at a safe and reasonable speed and wearing a seat belt and sitting the proper distance from the dash, all choices within your control you won't smash your head off anything. if I could buy my dads 1970 Chevy Impala with optional seat belts for the $2300 he paid new- feel free to adjust for inflation it would still be cheaper than anything you could buy today and I'd pit that car against an SUV and come out fine.
well the government has not made it so that everyone has to have AR on their lenses, so let's stick with that
Every safety device ever created for cars has always increased the price. I notice you wear your seat belt (as I do since they saved my life once) - good for you. But that is also a safety device that is required by the Gov't and increased the cost of cars at the time. I remember when I was small and there were no seat belts, if my mom had to stop the car quickly, she would put her arm out in front of me. Fat lot of good that would do in a collision.
And if you were in a head-on collision with a modern SUV with your 1970 Impala at say, 40 MPH each,even with seat belts, sadly we'd be one Pennsylvanian less. Or that might be a good thing!:D
Besides, it isn't just our big bad ultra-liberal super left-leaning socialistic government that requires them, they pretty much ALL do.
Regulatory specifications
[edit] United States
On 11 July 1984, the U.S. government amended Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 208 (FMVSS 208) to require cars produced after 1 April 1989 to be equipped with a passive restraint for the driver. An airbag or an automatic seat belt would meet the requirements of the standard. Airbag introduction was stimulated by the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.[29] However, airbags were not mandatory on light trucks until 1995.[citation needed]
In 1998, FMVSS 208 was amended to require dual front airbags, and de-powered, or second-generation airbags were also mandated. This was due to the injuries caused by first-generation airbags, though FMVSS 208 continues to require that bags be engineered and calibrated to be able to "save" the life of an unbelted 50th-percentile size and weight "male" crash test dummy.
[edit] Outside the U.S.A.
Most countries[who?] outside North America adhere to internationalized European ECE vehicle and equipment regulations rather than the U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. ECE airbags are generally smaller and inflate less forcefully than U.S. airbags, because the ECE specifications are based around belted crash test dummies. In the United Kingdom, and most other developed countries there is no direct legal requirement for new cars to feature airbags. Instead, the Euro NCAP vehicle safety rating encourages manufacturers to take a comprehensive approach to occupant safety; a good rating can only be achieved by combining airbags with other safety features.[30] Thus almost all new cars now come with at least two airbags as standard.
Here's a brief history:
http://inventors.about.com/od/astart...a/air_bags.htm
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
Errr...
Crizal Forte!!!!
My airbags thing was just to show that we have wants from clients and we need to satisfy them.
Could you WINDBAGS move the political mumbo jumbo to the Just Conversation Forum please. We are trying to debate the marketing and real life experiences of some type of coating here!
;):cheers::cheers::cheers::D
but Dad he started it.
I agree that there simply is NO amount and I mean N-O amount of education that would apply to every patient equally, and achieve a 100% success rate in completely eliminating wear/tear/abuse/accidents/whatever that will occur to a given set of A/R lenses over time. Or frames. Or your own bodies.
It happens.
Get OVER it.
In the mean time, using a product that you feel to be superior to others for any number of reasons may well make good business sense for you. It does for us, and serves us very very well. Cheers! :cheers:
Nuh-UH!
OK dad- just don't pull over the car!
:bbg:
Anyway, I personally do not use any of the Crizal products. When I have gotten them (through VSP) we have had an annoying large number of coatings craze after a few months.
Besides, why would I want to put money into the hands of a company that wants to put me out of business?
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
I've been having a lot of "crazing" with the new FORTE 1.6 stock lenses!Strange.
No problems with a less expensive 1.6 Centoptic HMC PLUS ar lens or the more expensive Hoya HV VP ar lenses.
:cheers:
Like Chris said 11 month ago about coating too hard, :finger:
" it will be the superb invitation for crazing and chipping." :drop:
that is interesting. I have not been in the industry using stock Forte. But I always had trouble with Centoptic products in the past.
Where are you buying your stock Forte from? We get ours from Stock Club
Yep stock club for the Forte.
Centoptic HMC PLUS lenses are surprisingly great and so are the prices.
Can't wait to try the new hoya lens when it comes out...
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