Opticianry education and license

[eoptics]

1. What should be the ideal image of future optician?
I think an optician should be technomarketer.
Technomarker = Technologist + marketer

2. What should be the desirable opticianry education?
Regarding curriculum, are the classes ideal? or do you think any improvement from that?
1) Basic course : Internet & computer, Accounting, Management, Business, Merchandising, Geometry, Eye Anatomy, Chemistry, Physics
2) Optics & Lenses: Ophthalmic optics, Lens material, Lens design, Lens Manufacturing, Lens fininshing, Lens Surfacing, Equipments
3) Dispensing
4) Frame Design, Frame manufacturing
5) Coating or dying: AR, AS, AF, Photochromic, Polarize...
6) Vision Measuring
7) Safety
8) Opticianry Laws
9) Contact Lenses: Principles, Materials, Prescription, Fitting...
10) Opticianry products and insudtries


3. Do you think BS/ms/phd in opticianry would be necessary in the future?

4. Also, the education should be the requirement of all state licenses in near future?
:)

[Jacqui]

OK, I'm gonna shoot my big mouth off here. :D

1. What should be the ideal image of future optician?
I think an optician should be technomarketer.
Technomarker = Technologist + marketer

Somebody that isn't primarily a salesperson. I want people who know how to do the job properly, sales is a far distant second.

2. What should be the desirable opticianry education?
Regarding curriculum, are the classes ideal? or do you think any improvement from that?
1) Basic course : Internet & computer, Accounting, Management, Business, Merchandising, Geometry, Eye Anatomy, Chemistry, Physics
2) Optics & Lenses: Ophthalmic optics, Lens material, Lens design, Lens Manufacturing, Lens fininshing, Lens Surfacing, Equipments
3) Dispensing
4) Frame Design, Frame manufacturing
5) Coating or dying: AR, AS, AF, Photochromic, Polarize...
6) Vision Measuring
7) Safety
8) Opticianry Laws
9) Contact Lenses: Principles, Materials, Prescription, Fitting...
10) Opticianry products and insudtries

Good start, just make sure they can actually do everything here.

3. Do you think BS/ms/phd in opticianry would be necessary in the future?

No, an AAS should be enough

4. Also, the education should be the requirement of all state licenses in near future?
:)

YES, especially in Minnesota.

[tmorse]

1. What should be the ideal image of future optician?
I think an optician should be technomarketer.
Technomarker = Technologist + marketer

2. What should be the desirable opticianry education?
Regarding curriculum, are the classes ideal? or do you think any improvement from that?
1) Basic course : Internet & computer, Accounting, Management, Business, Merchandising, Geometry, Eye Anatomy, Chemistry, Physics
2) Optics & Lenses: Ophthalmic optics, Lens material, Lens design, Lens Manufacturing, Lens fininshing, Lens Surfacing, Equipments
3) Dispensing
4) Frame Design, Frame manufacturing
5) Coating or dying: AR, AS, AF, Photochromic, Polarize...
6) Vision Measuring
7) Safety
8) Opticianry Laws
9) Contact Lenses: Principles, Materials, Prescription, Fitting...
10) Opticianry products and insudtries


3. Do you think BS/ms/phd in opticianry would be necessary in the future?

4. Also, the education should be the requirement of all state licenses in near future?
:)

In an earlier thread I listed everything in opticianry into these three (3) categories...
MUST KNOW, SHOULD KNOW , AND NICE TO KNOW
Now check over you list and see which category all your 10 items fall. Does that tell you anything?? :hammer::hammer:
BS/ms/phd... necessary in opticianry??? Give your head a severe shake:p

[CNG]

I think most licensed opticians at one point or another their salary is capped as an optical dispenser and the choices are either go into management or open their own dispensary.

I would strongly suggest a degree in optical management. There are many employed opticians in the field but very few are expert managers.

[Jacqui]

I still would like to know why he wants all the information he has been asking for. Not only this thread, but 2 or 3 others.

[eoptics]

I think most licensed opticians at one point or another their salary is capped as an optical dispenser and the choices are either go into management or open their own dispensary.

I would strongly suggest a degree in optical management. There are many employed opticians in the field but very few are expert managers.

That's why I think we need business classes for opticianry marketer~! :D

[eoptics]

I still would like to know why he wants all the information he has been asking for. Not only this thread, but 2 or 3 others.

I do believe we need standard in opticianry for advancement. At this moment, we don't have enough data for it. But One person's opinion will flow into the sea of standard in opticianry in the near future.:D

[wmcdonald]

This is a debatable issue, and has been beatn to death here. Do a search and you will see what I mean.

[tmorse]

That's why I think we need business classes for opticianry marketer~! :D

The ambitious self-starter that will find a way to open his own optical dispensary will also get/find the assistance he needs through a variety of resources. That's why he/she have joined the ranks of entrepeneurs. ;)

[Johns]

The ambitious self-starter that will find a way to open his own optical dispensary will also get/find the assistance he needs through a variety of resources. That's why he/she have joined the ranks of entrepeneurs. ;)

:cheers:

[Newyorkoptician]

OK, I'm gonna shoot my big mouth off here. :D



Somebody that isn't primarily a salesperson. I want people who know how to do the job properly, sales is a far distant second.



Good start, just make sure they can actually do everything here.




No, an AAS should be enough



YES, especially in Minnesota.

DIDO ALL SAID!

[jediron1]

This is a debatable issue, and has been beatn to death here. Do a search and you will see what I mean.

So lets beat it some more!

[Newyorkoptician]

OK, I'm gonna shoot my big mouth off here. :D



Somebody that isn't primarily a salesperson. I want people who know how to do the job properly, sales is a far distant second.



Good start, just make sure they can actually do everything here.




No, an AAS should be enough



YES, especially in Minnesota.

I m glad to see someone say what I have been thinking for quite some time now. "just make sure they actually do everything". Here in the Box I work at I just had to redo a St.top because the people who did it measured so high I would have had to have the guy wear his glasses on the tip of his nose. On top of that I had a friend call and tell me he had to redo three st.tops because the people ordered them too low. The do over rate in these Boxes is enormous, it's running around 20 to 25%. If the Boxes only hired people who knew what they were doing instead of basing it on selling only they would be in a lot better shape then they are know. But most of the do-overs is basic stuff that most one week old optician should know but again when you hire only for selling then you get this crap, sorry for that but I couldn't help myself. just me ranting

[eoptics]

Just think about this.
What should be the reason that some of college graduators(even Master or PhD degree holders) from other areas have tended to take additional opticianry education? For example, the opticianry program of Indiana University has filled with around 50% college graduators in the different fields as far as I know.
I think the cause explans the main character that is different from other health professionals. What should be the main componet? :D

[Chris Ryser]

If the future optician has the real education of the past opticians, of course including the new technologies....................that will be fully sufficient.

[Roy R. Ferguson]

Just think about this.
What should be the reason that college graduators(even Master or PhD degree holders) from other areas have tended to take additional opticianry education?
I think the cause explans the main character that is different from other health professionals. What should be the main componet? :D

HUH?

Roy

[eoptics]

What should be the reason that some of college graduators(even Master or PhD degree holders) from other areas have tended to take additional opticianry education? For example, the opticianry program of Indiana University has filled with around 50% college graduators in the different fields as far as I know.:D

[wmcdonald]

I think you mean graduates, correct? The reason some may have returned is to find a job. Some who receive degrees at the senior college or university in areas such as English or History fine the job market very slim, and need to gain some additional education in another area. As a professor, I feel for the liberal arts folks in manmy regards, but I can tell you that they are well-equipped to succeed. The average college graduate makes significantly more money over their career than those who do not have a degree.

As to our difference in comparison to other health professional, let me ask this, are we truly a profession? Professions are based upon some sphere of knowledge. What is our sphere. Are we more appropriately technicians simply doing a technical task (think PDs and Seg Heithts; edging and surfacing, etc)? Either way is fine, but we need to collectively decide. We throw the term "professional" around, and for years, I thought we wanted to be considered professionals, but that takes paying significant dues through education and training well beyond current levels found in Opticianry. Many now come to the field as a source of a job, and see it that way. They would just as soon leave and do something else for a slightly higher salary.

I want us to expand and do more. Others feel we need to remain lab techs and make pretty glasses, and that is fine if that is what we want. I don't belittle making pretty glasses, but with the technology coming down the pike those skills will not be as necessary as in the past. I feel strongly that there will soon need to be another split, much like that of the early 1900s, from which there will be two deperate the distinct kinds of Optician, the professional and the technical. Nurses have followed that path, and it works well there, and we may consider that as well. All can then find their own level of satisfaction and enjoyment. The professional will be trained and educated at a higher level, and a path can be developed for those who initially seek a technical career to advance later if they choose. The professional would be required to have a degree, and advanced training. They would be the contact lens specialists, the educators, the refractionists, etc. The technical Optician would be able to train through apprenticeship, and be the specatcle dispensor, the lab tech, etc. I would enjoy hearing your comments about this concept.

[tmorse]

Just think about this.
What should be the reason that some of college graduators(even Master or PhD degree holders) from other areas have tended to take additional opticianry education? For example, the opticianry program of Indiana University has filled with around 50% college graduators in the different fields as far as I know.
I think the cause explans the main character that is different from other health professionals. What should be the main componet? :D

Spelling, followed closely by grammar;)

[CNG]

Opticianry is in trouble because no one knows who is really in control of making decisions for this profession. I would suggest a 1 hour meeting in which the options would be voted on and that is final.

In my view:

1. Require an associates degree to start the opticianry apprenticeship.
This degree can be of any type. It would only improve the caliber of the student. If it happens that it is an associate in Opticianry then the apprenticeship requirement is waived. This apprenticeship should be 18 months. Endorse one online program only for this apprenticeship. If they do it this way it eventually evolve into what Warren wants. Crawl before you walk

2. Certification: This test should be written and practical. Keep the current ABO and NCLE names so that states that require this test for their examination are not "confused". If this test is hard enough promote it to the licensed states as their test as well (dual purpose) so in essence it would promote job mobility.

3. Since legislation is so difficult to establish Copyright the title. It is cheaper in the long run and ends the endless discussion of who is an optician.


Please post the names and address of this public figures of Opticianry who make the decision so we can write and urge this change. If they are not willing then they have other interests that are not in the benefit of opticianry and should be removed from their position or defunct those organizations.

CNG:shiner:
Ophthalmic technician, manager, licensed optician and jack of all trades.

[tmorse]

As to our difference in comparison to other health professional, let me ask this, are we truly a profession? Professions are based upon some sphere of knowledge. What is our sphere. Are we more appropriately technicians simply doing a technical task (think PDs and Seg Heithts; edging and surfacing, etc)? Either way is fine, but we need to collectively decide.
I want us to expand and do more. Others feel we need to remain lab techs and make pretty glasses, and that is fine if that is what we want.

All can then find their own level of satisfaction and enjoyment. The professional will be trained and educated at a higher level, and a path can be developed for those who initially seek a technical career to advance later if they choose. The professional would be required to have a degree, and advanced training. They would be the contact lens specialists, the educators, the refractionists, etc.
The technical Optician would be able to train through apprenticeship, and be the specatcle dispensor, the lab tech, etc. I would enjoy hearing your comments about this concept.

We do have a core opticianry curriculum... as you say, a sphere of mandatory knowledge. That is the MUST KNOW.
To complement this basic core of knowledge we have available an expanded orbit of optical knowledge... the SHOULD KNOW.
And then we have ALL the rest of optical-related knowledge... the NICE TO KNOW.

IMHO, Dispensing Opticians and Optical Lab Techs always were and are mutually exclusive. Those with bad/green teeth, abundane of home-made tatoos, introverts with limited social skills, bad spellers;), etc are placed in the back of the store, away from the public. Because they specialize in fabrication, repairs, etc they are the lab expert, and should be acknowledged as such. The are good LAB TECHS and they don't need formal education or certification, but no dispensary can survive without them.

Dispensing Opticians have other distinct but necessary qualifications. They require formal optical education since they place the order that the Lab Tech fills. They are required to present themselves in a manner that will not frighten the little old ladies. They are expected to do all the front-of-store work, including dealing with the public, looking after finances, maintaining the frame bars, ordering, etc. And they must be licensed, bondable and usually good natured;).

I look upon this as a no-brainer. If a Lab Tech has acquired dispensing skills, or an Optician has developed edgeing/surfacing skills, they have become cross-trained. But they are still one or the other, unless by necessity are a small independant store owner.

That's our system here in Canada. But here my bias presents... the Dispensing Optician should have a post-secondary Certificate or Diploma certifying that they have attained a certain level of expertise in opticianry.
Certain ego's may be soothed with an A.A.S. degree, but if you expect Optometry or Ophthalmology to consider you a peer, just forget it. It's basic EGO 101... you can work for them, but please do remember your place 'employee'.

Again, speaking for Canada, we have advanced training, protocols and formal exams for contact lens fitting and sight-testing specialties. So you in the States really don't have to re-invent the wheel.

As to apprenticeship, this is simply a playback to the 1800's, where you can lawfully pay someone minimal apprenticeship wages for four (4) years (how dare you ask for a raise in wages...I'm doing you a favour by training you), and keep that someone in servitude until he obtains a skill set that finally requires more pay. Then, find another 4-year apprentice.
Personally, I would like to see some school open a 'x-month' course solely in 'optical lab technician', where the graduate can immediately benefit any lab, and command a reasonable wage.

Warren... for thirty (30) years you have tried to unify opticianry in the States.
My considered opinion? Try a new tact... move heaven and earth to get rid of the ABO/NCLE gang and their basic exam. They represent the 'status quo'... and are quite happy to leave things exactly as they are. And If they won't eliminate this cash-cow basic exam and only use their Advanced exams, start a National boycott. Get everyone to stop handing out praise and congradualtions to OptiBoarders that help perpetuate this 2-tiered system. Get the associations and licensed States behind you, to boycott this simplictic exam. I find it ridiculous that a person with an A.A.S. degree in opticianry is still made to sit this level of competency. SHAME! (RANT OVER)

[Roy R. Ferguson]

Warren... for thirty (30) years you have tried to unify opticianry in the States.
My considered opinion? Try a new tact... move heaven and earth to get rid of the ABO/NCLE gang and their basic exam. They represent the 'status quo'... and are quite happy to leave things exactly as they are. And If they won't eliminate this cash-cow basic exam and only use their Advanced exams, start a National boycott. Get everyone to stop handing out praise and congradualtions to OptiBoarders that help perpetuate this 2-tiered system. Get the associations and licensed States behind you, to boycott this simplictic exam. I find it ridiculous that a person with an A.A.S. degree in opticianry is still made to sit this level of competency. SHAME! (RANT OVER)

Hi Ted:

Over the past 20 or so years Warren and I have promoted the concept of a professional optician. So far the efforts have met with little or no success. We strongly feel that formal education is the proper route since opticians are the only health related field in the United States lacking such credentials.

During this time I have constantly heard many argue that the ABO/NCLE exams are too simple and there is a need for a more comprehensive test. The problem is the pass rates for these two basic exams hover around the 50% mark. How do you increase the breadth and depth of any exam when the candidates’ knowledge base is so minimal?

Here is one example for you. The practical exam I have written and administer in several licensed states has been reviewed by several other Boards and dismissed as “too easy”. When I explain that it has a pass rate similar to the ABO/NCLE, the argument shifts to “something must be wrong with the exam”. No one wishes to address the obvious ignorance of the candidates.

How do we correct this situation? I wish I knew. As a field, we appear to lack both the leadership and desire to advance.

Roy

[obxeyeguy]

How do we correct this situation? I wish I knew. As a field, we appear to lack both the leadership and desire to advance.

Roy

Nothing will change until the leadership no longer has a vested interest in the end result.

Until that happens, they will continue to talk out of both sides of their mouth more than Jeff Dunhams Achmed!

JMHO

[jediron1]

I m glad to see someone say what I have been thinking for quite some time now. "just make sure they actually do everything". Here in the Box I work at I just had to redo a St.top because the people who did it measured so high I would have had to have the guy wear his glasses on the tip of his nose. On top of that I had a friend call and tell me he had to redo three st.tops because the people ordered them too low. The do over rate in these Boxes is enormous, it's running around 20 to 25%. If the Boxes only hired people who knew what they were doing instead of basing it on selling only they would be in a lot better shape then they are know. But most of the do-overs is basic stuff that most one week old optician should know but again when you hire only for selling then you get this crap, sorry for that but I couldn't help myself. just me ranting

Don't be sorry the truth is the truth. I have seen that very thing. Most of what are called opticians today I don't think know the difference between a PD stick and a seg gauge.

[jediron1]

I think you mean graduates, correct? The reason some may have returned is to find a job. Some who receive degrees at the senior college or university in areas such as English or History fine the job market very slim, and need to gain some additional education in another area. As a professor, I feel for the liberal arts folks in manmy regards, but I can tell you that they are well-equipped to succeed. The average college graduate makes significantly more money over their career than those who do not have a degree.

As to our difference in comparison to other health professional, let me ask this, are we truly a profession? Professions are based upon some sphere of knowledge. What is our sphere. Are we more appropriately technicians simply doing a technical task (think PDs and Seg Heithts; edging and surfacing, etc)? Either way is fine, but we need to collectively decide. We throw the term "professional" around, and for years, I thought we wanted to be considered professionals, but that takes paying significant dues through education and training well beyond current levels found in Opticianry. Many now come to the field as a source of a job, and see it that way. They would just as soon leave and do something else for a slightly higher salary.

I want us to expand and do more. Others feel we need to remain lab techs and make pretty glasses, and that is fine if that is what we want. I don't belittle making pretty glasses, but with the technology coming down the pike those skills will not be as necessary as in the past. I feel strongly that there will soon need to be another split, much like that of the early 1900s, from which there will be two deperate the distinct kinds of Optician, the professional and the technical. Nurses have followed that path, and it works well there, and we may consider that as well. All can then find their own level of satisfaction and enjoyment. The professional will be trained and educated at a higher level, and a path can be developed for those who initially seek a technical career to advance later if they choose. The professional would be required to have a degree, and advanced training. They would be the contact lens specialists, the educators, the refractionists, etc. The technical Optician would be able to train through apprenticeship, and be the specatcle dispensor, the lab tech, etc. I would enjoy hearing your comments about this concept.

We have expanded but where has it gotten us? We expanded to do refractions but the OD's are afraid we will take there jobs. So whats the point?