The Zeiss White paper on Optimized, FF progressives

[Barry Santini]

I've downloaded and read a white paper by Darryl Meister explaining the principles and optimization process behind Zeiss Individual lenses. It is an excellent paper.

There are valid questions raised by this paper as to just how much any ECP can "trust" that *any* FF lens supplier is actually delivering the full benefits of their optimization process. All ECPs essentially lack the tools to verify these lenses. It is up to the manufacturer/lab to ensure the quality and performance expected is that which is delivered. This class of lens designs then, becomes what I call the ultimate "take my word for it".

I have. And I have told my clients the same.

Their response is no different than those detailed in the paper. They uniformly prefer optimized, personalized FF progressive and SV lenses over their present traditional designs.

I've decided (anecdotally) that this class of lens is actually also more forgiving of departures from the ideal/optimal Rx that could be determined for any patient. Therefore, not only is your client more satisfied, the dispenser's job less fraught with sensitivity to where their supplied Rx is in the envelope of Rxs possible for any particular patient.

The questions I now have are:

1. Are our current tools and procedures for determining personalized fitting parameters (including PD, Panto, VD, panoramic angle)reliable, repeatable and representative of the assumptions these designs make for the values obtained?

2. Ditto the above for the assumed refracting parameters (especially Vertex distance).

3. Regarding the precision of 0.1mm inset calculations, as well as corridor lengths, how much of this optimization is compromised by real world fitting values, such as frame misalignment, slippage, skew and the like.

Your thoughts here are appreciated.

Barry

[HarryChiling]

I think 1 and 3 pose the greatest issues in all progressive lenses. I think the underlying root isn't the tools but the lack of education. Many people don't know how to take or measure angles. Many don't know how to properly fit progressives either. I can't tell you how many times I have seen opticians adjust a frame because the patient likes to wear them lower on their nose, or how may times we have remade a progressive because the fitter decided that they would measure the progressives while they were sitting halfway down the nose. These fittings need to be addressed more than the tools, for a handful of opticians that CAN utilize the proper tools to take panto, face, vd , and pd I think for those opticians the results are repeatable and fairly accurate.

[Jacqui]

Do either of you have the web address for the white paper?? I'd like to read it.

[Barry Santini]

Do either of you have the web address for the white paper?? I'd like to read it.

I ditched the email that sent me to a specific and different site for Gradal Individual Info. When I tried to find it on the main Zeiss site, I was unable.

Darryl?

Barry

[Fezz]

I think 1 and 3 pose the greatest issues in all progressive lenses. I think the underlying root isn't the tools but the lack of education. Many people don't know how to take or measure angles. Many don't know how to properly fit progressives either. I can't tell you how many times I have seen opticians adjust a frame because the patient likes to wear them lower on their nose, or how may times we have remade a progressive because the fitter decided that they would measure the progressives while they were sitting halfway down the nose. These fittings need to be addressed more than the tools, for a handful of opticians that CAN utilize the proper tools to take panto, face, vd , and pd I think for those opticians the results are repeatable and fairly accurate.

Are the tools to take these measurements available?

[HarryChiling]

Are the tools to take these measurements available?

You'll get yours on Friday.

[Fezz]

;):cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::bbg:

[rolandclaur]

Do either of you have the web address for the white paper?? I'd like to read it.

I think this is it..

http://www.vision.zeiss.com/41256820...hite_Paper.pdf

[tmorse]

I think this is it..

http://www.vision.zeiss.com/41256820...hite_Paper.pdf

This is a paper on a Sola product, dated 2003.

[Robert Martellaro]

http://www.personalizedlens.com/imag...itePaper_G.pdf

[HarryChiling]

If you look at the chart on page 3 bottom right you will notice that on a traditional progressive you will have a number of prescriptions that have low errors on the particular base curve. I would think that chart would help to determine the patients WOW factor and could be used as a rudimetary tool for chooseing who could benefit from the Individual design rather than the traditional design. I would think that anything from the orange on the chart through the Red will see a WOW and the yellow could be the fence, if the patient trully wants more from their progressive then the individual design would suit but if they have always been satisfied with there progressive then the traditional would suit (maybe just offer to make sure the patient knows it's available and to plant the seed for future Rx changes that would place the Rx outside fo the optimal design parameters). I would love to see this kind of information available for all the FF surfaced designs to help patients gain the benefits of applying corrections using FF.

[Jacqui]

http://www.personalizedlens.com/imag...itePaper_G.pdf

Thanks Robert :D

[Fezz]

Thanks Robert :D

I'll second that, and this round is on me!

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[Optician1960]

Anyone have experience using the new camera based systems to measure PD, fitting height, vertex, panto, face form?
PD and FH seem to be a no brainer (assuming frame adjusted correctly before measurements taken). I am a little more cautious on believing the vertex, panto and face form measurements though.

Appreciate any help.

[Barry Santini]

My main issue with this system is that, at this time, one cannot *verify* the fitting parameters with the lenses installed. (Frame must have no lenses glazed)

Barry

[Chris Ryser]

I ditched the email that sent me to a specific and different site for Gradal Individual Info. When I tried to find it on the main Zeiss site, I was unable.

Here it is.....................

http://www.vision.zeiss.com/41256820...2571b100549914 :bbg:

[Darryl Meister]

Sorry for the delayed response, Guys; it's been an extremely busy week for me. Soon, I will post an article on free-form technology, which I am sure you will all find very informative.

[rolandclaur]

Looking forward to it.. always learn so much from all the articles you've written!!

[Darryl Meister]

My article on modern progressive lenses is now available for download from the OptiBoard File Directory at Progress in the Spectacle Correction of Presbyopia.

[chip anderson]

Excellent Article. I think after reading this you probably increased my progressive I.Q. about 75 points.
The only thing wrong with this article is like most of the stuff you write you make the rest of us realize just how dumb we are.

Damn I wish I was as smart as Darryl and Harry.


Chip

[Darryl Meister]

Damn I wish I was as smart as Darryl

I'm not that smart, I just know a lot of impressive sounding adjectives. ;)

[harry a saake]

yeh and darryls only about 18, think of how much he will know when he grows up