Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: High Index versus Poly

  1. #1
    Bad address email on file
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Occupation
    Optical Retail
    Posts
    21

    High Index versus Poly

    Hi everyone!

    How do you explain the difference between high index and polycarbonate to your patients? I know that high index is thinner, but is that the only benefit to the patient?

    Sorry if this is a repetitive question, but I have searched the other posts and I can't find anything specific as far as what to say to patients.

    Thanks so much for all of your help!

    -Whitney

  2. #2
    Rising Star melthemadhatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    The Circle Of Most Confusion, PA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    57
    I always explain to people that light travels faster in Hi Index vs. poly, thus providing clear vision. Itell them that since poly is softer it is more impact resistant, but light travels slower causing more distortion. I hope this helps.:)
    ABOC

    "No man in an idiot in his own mind"-Dad

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Only City in the World built over a Volcano
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    13,002
    You might also mention that poly distorts colors and other images more.
    Poly scratches much more easily.
    Poly is easily eaten by chemicals such as acetone.
    The only reasons to use poly are: It's light weight, and to protect the dispenser from lawyers.

    Chip

  4. #4
    Bad address email on file
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Occupation
    Optical Retail
    Posts
    21
    Than why do so many people prefer poly? That's amazing! GREAT tips! Thanks, Chip and Mel!

  5. #5
    Rising Star melthemadhatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    The Circle Of Most Confusion, PA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    57
    1) It's cheaper to make, and is marked up considerably making a good profit.

    2) Impact resistant.

    3) Most places sell it because of those reasons.

    I personally sell it only to people who are wearing it already, and to children. Other than that, I use CR 39, high index or trivex.

    Polycarb has to be cured for a year. If not it will develop stress cracks. Being the demand is so high, they are not curing them as long, so more cracks.

    I do not wear it because with my whacked out prescription i will go batty. Hi index for me!

    That's my take on it.
    ABOC

    "No man in an idiot in his own mind"-Dad

  6. #6
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter rbaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Massachusetts & Oregon
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    2,908
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by whitneyd74 View Post
    Than why do so many people prefer poly? That's amazing! GREAT tips! Thanks, Chip and Mel!

    Probably because the have never worn a CR-39 or crown glass lens.

  7. #7
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Oakland, California
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,447
    Quote Originally Posted by melthemadhatter View Post
    I always explain to people that light travels faster in Hi Index vs. poly, thus providing clear vision. Itell them that since poly is softer it is more impact resistant, but light travels slower causing more distortion. I hope this helps.:)
    Actually, it travels slower, which is why you don't need as much of it to bend light the same amount.
    Also, what high index do we mean? Some high indexes are higher that other high indexes. Do you think of 1.55/1,56/1.58 as HI ? Or do we start at 1.6, 1.67, and 1.70? Or do we need 1.74 to be truly "high" index?
    Last edited by finefocus; 12-03-2008 at 08:10 PM.

  8. #8
    Rising Star melthemadhatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    The Circle Of Most Confusion, PA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by finefocus View Post
    Actually, it travels slower, which is why you don't need as much of it to bend light the same amount.

    Indeed. I stand corrected! I was thinking one thing, but typing another. I must have been thinking of Spectralite..:o
    ABOC

    "No man in an idiot in his own mind"-Dad

  9. #9
    Rising Star
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bellevue, Washington
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    59
    I know the chain I used to work for would push poly more than any other lens type.

    When the big chains push something I suppose it probably affects the consumers perceptions. If a consumer walks into a big chain and then writes them an estimate with the "best" lens material available and they do it for poly (assuming they trust the mctician working there) that consumer now thinks poly is the best available material.

    now that I have escaped the chains... of the chains... I see that poly is really only good for its impact resistance when you dont (for some reason) want to use trivex.
    Life is too important to take seriously.
    WALDO!

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Only City in the World built over a Volcano
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    13,002
    You could tell them it's cheap because there was so much of it left over from ship's hole liners after WWII. They had to do something with it.
    In fact if it's so cheap why do sheets of it cost more than sheets of plexiglass at the Home Depot?

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,818
    I recommend poly specifically for weight and safety. Hi index for cosmetic reasons or for better visual acuity. I try to keep it simple.

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,203
    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    You might also mention that poly distorts colors and other images more.
    Poly scratches much more easily.
    Poly is easily eaten by chemicals such as acetone.
    The only reasons to use poly are: It's light weight, and to protect the dispenser from lawyers.

    Chip
    Poly distorts colors more than 1.67?? I thought they were pretty much the same.

    Poly doesn't scratch, the hard-coat scratches. The scratch-resistance is only as good as the hard-coat. There are good and bad. Same with high-index. I also needs a hard-coat. Every type lens needs a hard-coat except CR and glass.

    The other reasons to use poly are low cost, thin centers are available, relatively high index, and to prevent chipping and flaking in rimless.

    I know lots of people are down on poly and I will admit that it is never THE BEST choice. But it is very often the best compromise lens in terms of light weight, thinness, toughness, and availability.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Only City in the World built over a Volcano
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    13,002
    Poly do scratch, dat why it need hard coat. Duh.

    Un coated you finger nail or even your finger pad enough to scratch it.

  14. #14
    Bad address email on file OptiChick21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Noblesville, IN
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    225

    My POV

    Wow chip, you really do come off as a grumpy old man sometimes... LOL. :p

    Anyhoo, we really dont have very many problems with poly compared to what I've heard in the past, like many many moons ago when poly was considered not as clear as plastic. I guess in a high Rx comparison, hi index would be a little clearer, maybe little less distortion, but we still use poly quite often. These days especially, I find our patients dont want to spend much over what their insurance will cover for them, so poly is a great bang for your buck option. We always use poly for children, safety glasses and for our monocular pt's too. We consider 1.56 and 1.60 mi-index's and 1.67 and 1.74 are hi index. I guess to summarize I would say poly is thin, lightweight and impact resistant... where hi index can be even thinner and great for hi Rx's.

  15. #15
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter DragonLensmanWV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Greatest Nation
    Occupation
    Optical Retail
    Posts
    7,635
    Quote Originally Posted by OptiChick21 View Post
    Wow chip, you really do come off as a grumpy old man sometimes... LOL. :p

    Anyhoo, we really dont have very many problems with poly compared to what I've heard in the past, like many many moons ago when poly was considered not as clear as plastic. I guess in a high Rx comparison, hi index would be a little clearer, maybe little less distortion, but we still use poly quite often. These days especially, I find our patients dont want to spend much over what their insurance will cover for them, so poly is a great bang for your buck option. We always use poly for children, safety glasses and for our monocular pt's too. We consider 1.56 and 1.60 mi-index's and 1.67 and 1.74 are hi index. I guess to summarize I would say poly is thin, lightweight and impact resistant... where hi index can be even thinner and great for hi Rx's.
    My suggestion as a former really high myope is to scrap the 1.67 and 1.74 index and use the 1.70. Better ABBE means clearer vision.
    DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
    "There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."

  16. #16
    Enjoying the education drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    5,574
    Dang, check out this link:
    http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...orrective-lens

    Pretty awesome.

  17. #17
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments OptiBoard Gold Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Naples Florida, using AC instead of heating
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    17,425
    Blog Entries
    3

    Redhot Jumper easy to apply edge protection coatings ...............

    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    .
    Poly is easily eaten by chemicals such as acetone.
    The only reasons to use poly are: It's light weight, and to protect the dispenser from lawyers.

    Chip

    Chemicals will not damage poly if properly protected. The hard coat protects the surfaces there is only the un protected edge that can start a chain reaction.
    However there are now easy to apply edge protection coatings that will prevent any damage.
    Chris Ryser
    ________________________________________
    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  18. #18
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Now I See's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    counting...4
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,847
    Quote Originally Posted by whitneyd74 View Post
    Hi everyone!

    How do you explain the difference between high index and polycarbonate to your patients? I know that high index is thinner, but is that the only benefit to the patient?

    Sorry if this is a repetitive question, but I have searched the other posts and I can't find anything specific as far as what to say to patients.

    Thanks so much for all of your help!

    -Whitney
    Hi Whitney...

    The way I explain it to the pt depends on what their needs are...

    For example, If the RX is SV and it's a child or any pt with a balance RX, I'll go over the benefits as far as impact-resistance, and UV protection...

    If the RX is for a BF, TF, or PAL I will recommend 1.60, or 1.70 (depending on the RX, when a hi-index material is needed)...I don't usually give a choice of poly for these pts (unless it's a balance RX, or it's a money issue for the pt)...from my experience, I will rarely have trouble with material non-adapts with a 1.60 or a 1.70. *I also use 1.60 for drilled frames, regardless of the RX..I like the results better.

    As far as a real explanation for the pt...I just tell them as much as I think they want to know...

    I've had pts that say...'don't tell me, just do it, your the Optician, not me!'...for them, I just tell them their cost and go with it! :)

    I've had others that come in and say..'what's the difference?'...for them I tell them about ABBE values and my personal experiences with the different types of lens materials they are considering and why I would (or wouldn't) use certain materials.

    Best advice I can give, is get comfortable with the reasons YOU like the lens materials and what their benefits are for different applications...and share that with your patients...some will want lots of explanation, others won't want much...either way if you are familiar with the benefits of the lenses your office offers to patients, your patients will be comfortable with your suggestions and explanations.

    Hope this helps a little..:)
    Last edited by Now I See; 12-04-2008 at 10:58 AM. Reason: needed to clarify something..
    ___________________________________________

  19. #19
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    NA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,255
    One thing I hear a lot that drives me batty is the idea that High Index is "thinner and lighter" than poly.

  20. #20
    Enjoying the education drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    5,574
    I think it may be true in circumstances where mass removal via thinning and/or asphericity outweighs higer indices' higher specific gravities.

    But, yeah, a cubic cm. of polycarbonate will be lighter than a cubic cm. of MR7, e.g.

  21. #21
    Always learning OptiBoard Bronze Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wauwatosa Wi
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,048
    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Dang, check out this link:
    http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...orrective-lens

    Pretty awesome.
    Pretty solid information, although they got a little lost with...

    "This qualification is necessary since best-form spherics are always better than aspherics for an ophthalmic lens application".

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeFitWell View Post
    One thing I hear a lot that drives me batty is the idea that High Index is "thinner and lighter" than poly.
    Right. In many cases the implication is that super high index is lighter in weight than mid and high index. This is simply not true (see below).

    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    I think it may be true in circumstances where mass removal via thinning and/or asphericity outweighs higer indices' higher specific gravities.

    But, yeah, a cubic cm. of polycarbonate will be lighter than a cubic cm. of MR7, e.g.
    Using typical lens sizes and similar surface designs, Poly is the lightweight king up to the low to mid-teens (except for Trivex, which is lighter than all lens materials below about 9 D).
    Robert Martellaro
    Roberts Optical Ltd.
    Wauwatosa Wi.
    www.roberts-optical.com
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself"
    -Richard Feynman
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    A mime-free zone.

  22. #22
    Optician Extraordinaire
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Somewhere warm
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,856
    I know some people have problems with poly but I think it's very few. I have right now both cr 39 and poly eyeglasses and I see just as well with the poly as I do the cr 39. My husband's eyeglasses are polycarb, also. It's not the perfect material for everything but it works well a lot of the time and is cheap which patients like.

  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Only City in the World built over a Volcano
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    13,002
    Everyone keeps talking about how Poly is cheap. The labs I use charge a little more for Poly than CR-39. Is there something I don't know?

    Chip

  24. #24
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,203
    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Everyone keeps talking about how Poly is cheap. The labs I use charge a little more for Poly than CR-39. Is there something I don't know?

    Chip
    Poly is less expensive than everything except CR-39.

    It doesn't chip, it's thin, it's lightweight, it's impact resistant and it costs only $30 more (in our shop). That is value that 85% of you patients will want. Try selling it. Your patients will appreciate getting lenses that aren't thicker that what they get at Wal-Mart.

    Or you could ask your clients "Would you like the absolutely cheapest lens that I can get?" You might be surprised at how many will say no.

  25. #25
    Optician Extraordinaire
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Somewhere warm
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    2,856
    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Everyone keeps talking about how Poly is cheap. The labs I use charge a little more for Poly than CR-39. Is there something I don't know?

    Chip
    Yes, it costs more then plastic but less then anything else. It's thin, it's light, it's safe. I can't remember the last time I've had a patient have a problem with vision through it.

    Of course, I don't recommend it to everyone. I recommend higher index lenses for stronger prescriptions, high index or Trivex for drills. I recommend regular plastic,too, if the rx is low, less then -2.00 or so.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Poly/High Index Transitions
    By Jo in forum Smart Lens Technology by Transitions Optical
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-12-2009, 09:13 AM
  2. Poly versus Glass
    By For-Life in forum Just Conversation
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-05-2007, 06:18 PM
  3. Another Query re High Minus High Index Progressive
    By snoopybird in forum Progressive Lens Discussion Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-01-2005, 08:15 AM
  4. Poly or Hi-Index
    By UFRich in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-26-2004, 07:55 PM
  5. Oddity of a high minus, high index pal.
    By Cameron in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-13-2000, 12:49 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OptiBoard is proudly sponsored by:
Identity Optical, Younger Optics, Carl Zeiss Vision, Vision Systems, Inc. and Chemistrie Eyewear