What is the best material for drilled lenses in your opinion?
Usually I use Poly but this RX needs High Index
(I'm not fond of Poly above 4 diopters)
Would you go with 1.6 or 1.67 or other?
RX is around -5.00 in a Lindberg Frame
What is the best material for drilled lenses in your opinion?
Usually I use Poly but this RX needs High Index
(I'm not fond of Poly above 4 diopters)
Would you go with 1.6 or 1.67 or other?
RX is around -5.00 in a Lindberg Frame
1st choice = Hoya 1.70
2nd choice = 1.60
Ditto what Fezz said.
1.7 is ok for drilling?? Its not too brittle??
1.74 is too brittle.
1.70 is just fine!
have Seen 1.70 in drilled work fine.
Chris and Chip should be around soon to assure us that crown glass would be fine in a rimless with this power. I am sure if any of us were *Real* Opticians, we could handle this just fine with an old hand drill, coconut oil, and some sweat equity!
;):cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::bbg:
Yes, glass is the BEST material for this. ;) If you send me the Rx, I may have some PGX around that will work. :D It really isn't that hard to do it in glass, just don't drink tooo much beer before starting. :finger: :hammer:
And drill really slow!Originally Posted by Jacqui
;):cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::D
Back here in the woods we don't have none of that there fancy coconut oil, we just use good old fashioned kryptok oil.:cheers:
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
Jacqui, I would like those heat treated, not chemed, so they get darker outside. Can these be done by friday?;)
trivex will also work very well in this situation
Is 1.66 or 1.67 too brittle for drilling? (compared to 1.60 or 1.70)
Trivex works great, easy to surface & edge with NO STINK!;)
yes...but it's too thick in this case
I'd go with 1.67, There's not enough difference in thickness to go with 1.74.
I find that the middle drill speed on a Santinelli Less-stress drill does quite well with either 1.67 or 1.74.
1.67 is a fabulous choice for drilled rimless (as is 1.60, Trivex, and 1.70)
Polycarbonate is about the worst choice especially in Lindberg products or any tension mount systems (like the old Marchon Airlock 1 (with the wedge shaped post)). The constant pressure on the hole (slot) would eventually cause radial fractures to appear as it is non interlaced material and acually starts to seperate.
That is not the case with the MR resins and Trivex (Pheonix, Trilogy, whatever).
Matter of fact, you would be better off using CR39 in the old Air (not the case in the Spirit) than Poly.
I will caution you about using a "manual" drilling procedure other than the Lindberg drill in processing your Air or Spirit frames, unless you have modified them considerably (difficult, but possible). The reason for that is in order to maintain a perfectly formed slot and removing only a small amount of material with each pass. (dimensions for spirit are 1.1 X 2.43mm, in order to create exactly the desired tension on the "folded" wire).
The new breed of edgers with in chamber drilling are very capable of processing lenses for these highly technical mountings. If you were to go that route, a machine which cools and lubricates the milling bit (water) will give the most satisfactory results, as opposed to one which cuts (drills) dry.
Thats my 2 pfennig worth, and yes, I have processed a few thousand drilled rimless jobs in every material including glass (still have glass chips embedded in my fingers to prove it:)).
Good luck,
Rob
I will caution you about using a "manual" drilling procedure................
Very nice post and well explained...............................
However this is only an opinion of probably a younger person that relies on a automatic edger drill, that can not differentiate between materials.
All the active old timers that have learned lens drilling by hand can tell that no machine can replace well trained fingers to drill a proper hole into any type of material used in glasses.
I can still drill a proper hole into a flint glass lens using a 30 years old Essilor lens drill press, a diamond or carbide drill bit and turpentine for cooling
Poly is a perfect material if you drill properly without ripping the hole surface by overheating, and use a drill bit that is not dull. You can also chemically secure the hole surface with a drop of "Drillseal" and you will not have any problems coming from mounting poly into rimless frames of any kind.
It is a shame that the lens materials are blamed for improperly done lab work. Don't forget. rimless frames have been around periodically for over a hundred years and used to be made by opticians that were working with much more primitive equipment compared to today..................but had less complications doing the job properly. It all boils down that the younger generation in this profession does not have any proper basic
training.
Chris,
Thanks for the reply.
Although I agree whole heartedly on some of your comments, I will respectfully disagree on a few items.
I have been drilling lenses for nearly thirty years, and have done many jobs in glass. Even used to do the AO? or B&L? (my memory is failing), where we would melt lead into the chassis and lens to hold it together.
Talking about melting, I have one of the old "hot iron" (Essilor) drilling (melting) machines we used for putting holes in CR39 when it first became popular.
Anyway, the procedure I was specifically referring to was SLOTTING as is done on Lindberg frames (all of them).
I will eat (actually consume for your ammusement) , in your presence, any pair of glass lenses you can successfully slot and have consistant dimensions from anterior to posterior surface if the lens.
You are absolutely correct about Drillseal, but how many people do you know who are aware of its existence?
I still see people who dont a least partially polish polycarbonate lens edges (providing the same "sealing" effect).
Besides, with such superior products as 1.6, 1.67, 1.70 and trivex, why bother with extra procedures? There is no point in using polycarbonate other than cost.
I also am an adjunct instructor at an optical school, and instructing drilled rimless is not part of the "basic training". There is nothing basic about it.
If a student wants to learn (and I encourage it!) I will gladly stay after class for as long as it takes to teach them the skills that they will have to PRACTICE and DEVELOP over time to become proficient at drilled rimless processing.
I hope I didnt just open a can of worms with you, and if so, please accept my apologies, but drilled rimless eyewear is a passion for me, not an opinion, and I spent many years (and earned a boatload of money because it was a niche no one else could fill successfully until the new equipment started popping up) doing nothing but processing drilled rimless eyewear.
With the utmost respect for your talent,
Robert:cheers:
Hi Robert..............you actually do not have to respectfully disagree, you can also just plain disagree. I am not always right and can take a hammer on my head. :hammer:
However we might make a lunch date where you could maybe eat a pair of lenses even if I do not agree with consistant dimensions as you describe.
Having looked at the Lindberg frames a minute ago on their website and found that are made with the old B&L "Balgrip" system, which then was also used by Marwitz and Hauser in Germany in the 50s and 60s.
I still have a Marwitz and Hauser notching grinder which dates back from the early 60s in my R&D lab which still works fine. We used to keep the cut off the tips of the clamps and preserved them in a metal candy box as proof of how many of these frame where mounted. Actually in those days we just about could do them with our eyes closed.
On thick minus edges we even made a curved notch to get a better and more solid hold, and it was all in glass then. :)
Last edited by Chris Ryser; 11-26-2008 at 12:50 PM.
I haven't looked at the website, but if Chris is right they brought back the B-31 mounting system. I remember doing lotsa those, high minus, plus, prism, execs, you name it and all of it in GLASS. Probably broke my share too. Still have a B&L notcher here somewhere.
Nail on the Head Chris......
Notching grinders are for wimps, you can put an excellent notch in with a cable drill and an fiber disc. Or if desparate it can be done with a hand file if it's small enough. However I do concede that some sort of grinder is best for glass.
Still have an old ball-grip frame that I would wear if I could find a replacement temple.
Chip
OK Chip...............I am a wimp..............
OK Chip...............I am a wimp..............
However if you would have to do between 10 and 20 notchy frames a day I would love to see you do it with a hand file, or even with a fibre disc, you'd burn marks into every 2 nd lens notch.
As for the temple you would need for your Balgrip, post it on Oopti Board, they used to be so standard that you probably could even put a temple made by AO on you B&L frame. There must still be thousands lying somewhere at opticians that have been around forever.
Last edited by Chris Ryser; 11-26-2008 at 01:10 PM.
So am I ;) The last one I did I used a needle file on plastic lenses, seemed to take forever.
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