Is 8 years old too young to shoot???

[obxeyeguy]

The point I am trying to get at:

The father and gun club used terrible, very poor judgement.

I think that there are many 13, 23, 48, 93 year olds that are not mature enough emotionally and physically to handle such a machine. I wonder if there was a law, if this father would have let Jr. shoot the gun on the farm, at hunting camp, or something like that. Sorta like the mom and dads that let Skippy and Suzie have a beer or two....as long as they are at home with them?

I wonder if this father would have let this 8 year old handle another dangerous tool: Like a chainsaw?

This is a tragic, sad story. Regardless of the age of the child, no law or rule will mend the wounds of those touched by this.

+1 to this, a terrible tragedy. Remember, we had an 8 YO kid with a class 3 fully automatic firearm. Poor judgement killed this kid, and I don't believe any law would necessarily have stopped it. Just as no new law to take away Roys class 3 weapons, which happens everytime something like this happens, would prevent it either.

Bottom line, Father makes a serious error in judgement, (i've been there), only this time with fatal results, and has to live with that the rest of his life. No winners here.

[peregrinerose]

Should 8 years old be considered too young to fire automatic weapons even with adult supervision?

Should Massachusetts change its gun laws so this would be illegal for 8 year olds?

What age is old enough to handle automatic weapons?

I would think that the physical strength of an 8 year old is not enough to handle an automatic weapon such as described, however in rural PA where I live, there are a lot of 8 year olds that are better shots with lower caliber rifles and handguns than I am. Laws should not be changed to protect the stupid from themselves, laws should not be written to step in when basic common sense fails. This is a sad scenario, but some people really are too dumb to be allowed to breed. Anyone that would let an 8 year old handle a tool far too powerful for him to physically control falls in that category.

[Uncle Fester]

So Massachusetts law apparently is written that anyone under 18 cannot legally fire a machine gun.

The sponsor of the event as well as the site are now facing manslaughter charges. The father of the victim is not being charged as the DA is saying he faces a lifetime sentence for his trust in others. He felt that since it was a small machine gun his son could better handle it.

The "Certified Instructor" who by law assisted is apparently a 15 year old who is not certified.

Wow.

[Fezz]

Wow.

Double WOW!

Ugh.

[obxeyeguy]

The sponsor of the event as well as the site are now facing manslaughter charges.
Wow.

The sponsor of the event I believe was the local sheriff. Ooops...

[QDO1]

From the outside looking in:

"utter lunacy"

How on earth can a automatic gun be classed as a tool?
If you want a hole in something use a drill (and wear saftey spectacles)

My feelings go out to the family of the child

_____________

A screwdriver, nailgun, hammer, drill are all tools. The intention of such tools is to build things. In the hands of a craftsman, fine things can be built, with few accidents

A gun is designed for killing things, thats the point of them. REMEMBER THAT. So long as turkey comes in a plastic wrapper down at the store, there is no need for the average joe to need to kill anything. Your constitutional rights come from a different era. Nowadays, there is little point in it. I live in the UK, and I only have ever seen guns, in the hands of the very highly trained police at the airport, and that is an utter comfort

The last major killing spree here (using guns) was actually based using leagal weapons, that were linked to a gunclub. We tightened the law up a lot since then, and to be honest it isnt far enough

Read here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_Massacre

In the best possible way, I think you guys in the US could learn a lot from us in this respect

[Roy R. Ferguson]

When our constitution was created the founders had learned from English history that force of arms was the only effective check on government. Because this right was to check government, the right necessarily belonged to the individual, and was thought to be absolute in that it could not be abrogated by the prevailing rulers.

Our framers believed the greatest danger to the republic was tyrannical government and the ultimate check on tyranny was an armed population. As the constitutional debates prove, the framers recognized that the common public purpose of preserving freedom would be served by protecting each individual's right to arms, thus empowering the people to resist tyranny and preserve the republic. The intent was not to create a right for other governments, the individual states; it was to preserve the people's right to a free state, just as it says.

This is what separates the population of the United States from the rest of the world. While others exist as subjects dependent upon the paternalistic whelms of government, our republic insures a plethora of freedoms coupled with an expectation of individual responsibility.

Roy

[obxeyeguy]

Well said Roy.

[QDO1]

When our constitution was created the founders had learned from English history that force of arms was the only effective check on government. Because this right was to check government, the right necessarily belonged to the individual, and was thought to be absolute in that it could not be abrogated by the prevailing rulers.

Our framers believed the greatest danger to the republic was tyrannical government and the ultimate check on tyranny was an armed population. As the constitutional debates prove, the framers recognized that the common public purpose of preserving freedom would be served by protecting each individual's right to arms, thus empowering the people to resist tyranny and preserve the republic. The intent was not to create a right for other governments, the individual states; it was to preserve the people's right to a free state, just as it says.

This is what separates the population of the United States from the rest of the world. While others exist as subjects dependent upon the paternalistic whelms of government, our republic insures a plethora of freedoms coupled with an expectation of individual responsibility.

Roy

Modern democracy in action - If we don't like our leaders it is OK, we have guns. When will people take a pinch of common sense whilst looking at the future, instead of looking at the past with very rose tinted spectacles

It isn't like children are not being killed here or anything

[Fezz]

From the outside looking in:

"utter lunacy"

How on earth can a automatic gun be classed as a tool?
If you want a hole in something use a drill (and wear saftey spectacles)

My feelings go out to the family of the child

_____________

A screwdriver, nailgun, hammer, drill are all tools. The intention of such tools is to build things. In the hands of a craftsman, fine things can be built, with few accidents

A gun is designed for killing things, thats the point of them. REMEMBER THAT. So long as turkey comes in a plastic wrapper down at the store, there is no need for the average joe to need to kill anything. Your constitutional rights come from a different era. Nowadays, there is little point in it. I live in the UK, and I only have ever seen guns, in the hands of the very highly trained police at the airport, and that is an utter comfort

The last major killing spree here (using guns) was actually based using leagal weapons, that were linked to a gunclub. We tightened the law up a lot since then, and to be honest it isnt far enough

Read here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_Massacre

In the best possible way, I think you guys in the US could learn a lot from us in this respect

Until the tide of people who risk their lives, leave their families, risk their health, and so on, stops flowing into this great country of mine and starts flowing into yours, I will continue to enjoy all that this country offers..even if you think some of it is "lunacy"!

I for one am proud to be a GUN OWNING and GUN CARRYING AMERICAN! I feel very fortunate to live in this amazing country. I count my blessings everyday for the freedoms I have! Our way must be working, there are plenty of people trying to get into our country everyday!

Happy New Year All!

;):cheers::cheers::cheers::D

[Fezz]

A screwdriver, nailgun, hammer, drill are all tools. The intention of such tools is to build things. In the hands of a craftsman, fine things can be built, with few accidents

A gun is designed for killing things, thats the point of them. REMEMBER THAT. So long as turkey comes in a plastic wrapper down at the store, there is no need for the average joe to need to kill anything. Your constitutional rights come from a different era. Nowadays, there is little point in it. I live in the UK, and I only have ever seen guns, in the hands of the very highly trained police at the airport, and that is an utter comfort

If you are ever stateside, please be my guest for dinner. I would love to serve you some smoked dove breast for an appetizer, and a nice wild venison filet wrapped in bacon, and maybe even some roasted duck or wild turkey, all washed down with a nice hearty cabernet. My hopes would be that you would gain an appreciation for fresh, food that hasn't been processed and wrapped in plastic.

I guess that you couldn't accept my invitation though, seeing how those tasty delights were taken with a firearm. Shame...........keep on eating those plastic wrapped delights!

[QDO1]

If you are ever stateside, please be my guest for dinner. I would love to serve you some smoked dove breast for an appetizer, and a nice wild venison filet wrapped in bacon, and maybe even some roasted duck or wild turkey, all washed down with a nice hearty cabernet. My hopes would be that you would gain an appreciation for fresh, food that hasn't been processed and wrapped in plastic.

I guess that you couldn't accept my invitation though, seeing how those tasty delights were taken with a firearm. Shame...........keep on eating those plastic wrapped delights!

How niaive. Who says I eat plastic wrapped? We have an excellent farm shop just down the road

[QDO1]

Until the tide of people who risk their lives, leave their families, risk their health, and so on, stops flowing into this great country of mine and starts flowing into yours, I will continue to enjoy all that this country offers..even if you think some of it is "lunacy"!

Have you idea how multi-cultural and open to imigrants the UK is?

[Fezz]

Have you idea how multi-cultural and open to imigrants the UK is?

No....I am rather ignorant of such affairs. Actually, I am rather embarrassed that I tried to match wits with you. It is painfully obvious that you are a much brighter, more worldly educated, and a far superior debater than I will ever be. Thanks for pointing out my shortcomings.

I apologize to the original poster for continuing to post as this thread veered off course.

[Uncle Fester]

Laws are now changed so this is a crime in Massachusetts. Apparently the initial statement by the DA that it was criminal was wrong.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/14...oys-uzi-death/

Note the defense at the end of the article- "It's the fathers fault."

Wow.

[hcjilson]

Fleury should have been acquitted in this case. Unfortunately it WAS the father's fault. I would agree that he has been punished enough, but it certainly was not the fault of the person organizing the gun shoot. Who, in their right mind, would give an 8 year old what essentially is a loaded machine gun? Jacqui mentioned that she shot a semi automatic when she was 8, but dollars to doughnuts says she was well, if not over supervised.

[chip anderson]

Who has automatic weapons, a federal permit is $250.00 annually. Unless you are bracing for a riot who needs one.
Now as to 8 year olds learning to shoot (regular single shots and repeating arms) down hear we would concider a male child to have had his education neglected if he didn't know about guns by this age. Now in Mass, I don't think they should have guns at all as this would offend the social concience of the entire state. You did notice that in the War of Northern Aggression that there were three Yankee casulaties to every one for the South. The North had the best weapons but we knew how they worked.

[Judy Canty]

...and it begins...again.

[Uncle Fester]

Fleury should have been acquitted in this case. Unfortunately it WAS the father's fault. I would agree that he has been punished enough, but it certainly was not the fault of the person organizing the gun shoot. Who, in their right mind, would give an 8 year old what essentially is a loaded machine gun? Jacqui mentioned that she shot a semi automatic when she was 8, but dollars to doughnuts says she was well, if not over supervised.

So can we agree that we should allow our State Legislatures to set minimum ages to shoot these powerful weapons and not let those who stand to gain monetarily from letting the ignorant spray the ammunition?

Dad was assured this was safe. He had no firearms experience!

[hcjilson]

[QUOTE=
Dad was assured this was safe. He had no firearms experience![/QUOTE]

Then what the heck was he thinking ? Not too much common sense methinks. I can't believe anyone that bright could be that stupid!

[chip anderson]

Odd so many of us want laws when they either don't really effect us or act to our benefit. Odd so few of us obey and support Eye Glass 1 which does effect us.

[Roy R. Ferguson]

[QUOTE=chip anderson;376937]Who has automatic weapons, a federal permit is $250.00 annually. Unless you are bracing for a riot who needs one.QUOTE]

This is just a minor correction and clarification. An individual purchasing a “ National Firearms Act Weapon “, NFA weapon or class 3 weapon is required to pay a one time, $200 Federal Excise Tax fee. This fee has been the same, since 1934. Additional hoops include fingerprinting, background checks, and a local law enforcement official’s signature. The full transfer takes three to 6 months. To the best of my knowledge, one crime since 1934 can be attributed to such a legally registered firearm.

Since my fully automatic, class 3 weapons, are valued at $15,000 to $20,000 each, I would suggest that anyone “bracing for a riot” select a simple, inexpensive, and effective Remington 870 shotgun.

Roy

[DragonLensmanWV]

Bracing for a riot = waiting to kill someone.
Our forefathers (two of them were mine that signed the Declaration) wanted armed people "as part of a well-organized militia" in case the British or French landed troops on our shores and the people could then defend America until the real military arrived, thus the formation of Minutemen. Armed insurrection against the government is treason, punishable by death.
All you now need is one guy who can pass a background check, and he can supply military weapons to any terrorist who wants them, American or not.

America dropped the ball back in 1938, when the public's outcry caused them to ban automatic weapons. If they had banned handguns at that time, our wonderful country would not be leading the world in gun murders. And nobody would have objected because of the rampant gun crimes being committed by gangsters. What do we have now? Gangsters killing people with illegal automatic weapons.

[Roy R. Ferguson]

bracing for a riot = waiting to kill someone.
Our forefathers (two of them were mine that signed the declaration) wanted armed people "as part of a well-organized militia" in case the british or french landed troops on our shores and the people could then defend america until the real military arrived, thus the formation of minutemen. Armed insurrection against the government is treason, punishable by death.
All you now need is one guy who can pass a background check, and he can supply military weapons to any terrorist who wants them, american or not.

America dropped the ball back in 1938, when the public's outcry caused them to ban automatic weapons. If they had banned handguns at that time, our wonderful country would not be leading the world in gun murders. And nobody would have objected because of the rampant gun crimes being committed by gangsters. What do we have now? Gangsters killing people with illegal automatic weapons.

huh?

[chip anderson]

Fester:

Most of the things an 8 year old does can be forgiven due to thier age. Only a few of them need to be shot! Now when they become adults the percentage needing shot increases.

Chip