Does anyone have a good frame waiver for patients who want to use their own frame and can't be talked out of it? If so, would you please post a link or PM me with it? Thanks...
Does anyone have a good frame waiver for patients who want to use their own frame and can't be talked out of it? If so, would you please post a link or PM me with it? Thanks...
"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."
--Carl Jung
I would love a copy too.
If your frame breaks, we are not responsible!!!!!
Sign here________________________________________________________ ______-
I like that obx, how about......
If you use your old frame it will be broken!
Sign______________________
I like that 24/7!:cheers:
Ditto
Patients Own Frame
In an effort to accommodate our patrons, we (company xyz) are more than happy to reuse your personal eyewear, however; we (company xyz) can not assume responsibility. Damage that may result from adjusting, removing, or reinserting lenses is never our intent. Please be aware that we (company xyz) can not refund the cost of lenses in cases where frames do break, but we (company xyz) will be more than happy to help you in selecting frames to replace the broken pair. Our associates diligently inspect and carefully adjust all eyewear and in the case of a broken frame we (company xyz) do offer our sincerest apologies.
Sign: ______________________________________ Date: _____________
Print: _________________________________________________________
Last edited by HarryChiling; 09-26-2008 at 02:42 PM.
Who is our and we? This doesn't say anywhere that you are not responsible. You should spell it out that the undersigned will not hold xyz responsible.Originally Posted by HarryChiling
It won't make it hold up in a court of law any better by changing those things. Keep in mind that if a waiver is needed that you probably shouldn't be doing it anyway so it's relying on the honor of the person as much as they would be relying on your honor not to maliciously break every frame to turn a quick buck. That's my take anyway, I enjoy createing documents if you enjoy editing then it looks liek we have a team, any other request for me and CME4SPECS?:D
PS - Changed the above to include your suggestions.
This is the one we currently use:
"I understand that in using my own frame for my new prescription lenses that I am doing so at my own risk. I understand that there is always a chance of the frame breaking due to a weak spot which may not always be visible. I agree that I will not hold your shop's name here or its staff responsible should my frame break and that I am responsible for the cost of my new lenses."
Andrew
"One must remember that at the end of the road, there is a path" --- Fortune Cookie
Are you denying POFs because you actually think they will break or you just want to sell them a new frame.
Think that over before replying.
I don't recall anyone saying they were denying them, they just don't want to be held responsible for them.
Below is one we worked up a while ago. We have not actually put it into place yet and I'm not convinced that the waiver is as good as it could be. I also have it on a MS Word .doc that prints two per page and you just tear in half for a pair. PM me your e-mail if you'd like that one.
--------------as follows:-----------------
Using Your Own Frame for New Lenses
Please understand the following:
·We will use the utmost care if we accept your own frame for use with new lenses, but in a small percentage of cases the frame parts or materials are worn, brittle, cracked, or corroded to the point that they will break or not support a new lens.
·Frame defects are not always visible, even by the trained eye.
·Older frames are frequently discontinued by their manufacturers and replacement parts are generally not available.
·Placing new lenses into your own frame may create a pair of glasses that cannot be repaired or replaced later.
Limits of Liability
·The only frames that we will accept responsibility for breaking are those that we supply new at the same time that new lenses are ordered.
·If a patient’s own frame breaks during our handling, we will make new lenses at no extra charge for whatever other frame the patient chooses, but the cost of the new frame will be the patient’s responsibility.
I, __________________________ , understand and agree to the above limits of liability. Signed __________________________ Date __________
-----------------------------------
Feedback and comments appreciated!
Why make new lenses no charge? Not your fault, but you accept responsibility?
Last edited by obxeyeguy; 09-26-2008 at 07:23 PM. Reason: error
I know. And your point is well taken. There are many ways to look at it and I've thought about it long and hard. We are in an area where our market is trusting and loyal and we don't want to create bad will if it can be avoided.
Here are some points that we could discuss - please tell me what you think:
- Whether we waiver the jobs or not, don't we all render our 'verdict' when accepting a old frame for reuse? So, when it's a total loss, we have no reservations about letting the patient know that we won't use it. That means we really do accept or reject jobs and don't just take everything regardless of condition. By taking any old frame in, we're really saying "It's OK to use it." At least that's what's implied. Our patients trust our verdict and depend upon us to be direct and willing to be reasonable. Let's face it, we won't do the job if we don't think it's worth the risk. At the same time, we don't mind directing patients to select premium lenses for any suitable frame.
- It's gets easier to tell what the frame can withstand once you remove the old lenses. Then you know more about what you're facing. You don't have to cut the new ones if the frame is beyond belief once it reaches its dismantled state. Getting the old lenses out gives you a fair indication of whether you can coax a new set in. At least I feel that way. Yes, I've been wrong once or..... twice, or .... three times, or ....four - maybe no more once a year anyway!
- If the old frame makes it to the new lens cut only to then self-destruct, the patient usually is willing to buy a new frame. It will invariably be purchased off of our boards, so we end up selling a frame. Maybe the costs don't always cover the loss, but usually they do. The situation remains honest and our effort shows and the patients reward us with long-term loyalty and their repeat purchases.
- Patients get to know that we are careful and provide a reasonable avenue for their reuse of the frames that they may truly enjoy or truly need to make due with.
- We don't want to be accused of purposefully neglecting patient property. By accepting some of the risk, our integrity remains intact. In all honesty, couldn't just about every patient frame snap during reuse? Wouldn't that be a stickler if the patient had to buy a another set of lenses AND the new frame, too? No matter how fair that may look, the patient would end up quite displeased.
I have never had a waiver...never will! I can't tell you the last time I broke one so I'm not going to worry about it. I have refused many POF'S for one reason or another, but never because I just wanted to sell them a new frame. So maybe that's why I haven't had a problem. If I see a potential problem, I just say no...sorry!
In the rare cases that a frame has been broken, I assume the responsibility, because I think I should have known better! It's just good PR.To date it has not been a problem.
I've had many mangled frames that need to be salvaged so that they are wearable and I've told people point balnk that I will do my best and if it breaks, it's not my responsibility. I will realign them right in front of them and if it breaks...too bad. Never had an issue with that!
Oh I forgot about the court issue! Take me to court...you win, I don't have the time to deal with court!
Last edited by CME4SPECS; 09-26-2008 at 10:08 PM. Reason: addition
Your points taken, and accepted. Doc, we are really not that much different. I was not really questioning why you did it as much as why put it in print. I essentially do the same thing as CME does. No waivers, and if I break it, I deal on a case by case, but will not loose a patient over it.
thanks for all the help
Thank you for all the help re: the frame waiver subject. I know a waiver won't stand up in court. I am not trying to sell people new product when they don't need it. I use plenty of POF's when they are in good condition. We haven't had a frame waiver in the past...never needed one. Normally, I look at the frame & if it looks good & doesn't have any obviously signs of causing a potential problem, I will use it. What started my frustration in all this was that a colleague took in a 10 year old Autoflex which broke. I wouldn't have taken in a frame that old, (Autoflex or not), but oh well, it's a moot point now. Another patient gave us a bent frame, which was bent JUST ENOUGH to get stuck in our Kappa Tracer, and in removing the frame from the grip of the tracer (even gently), one of the tracer pins broke off the front. Now, we are told that because of the breakage, we will need a new tracer table (to the tune of 2600 buckaroos). So, really, the waiver is only to let patients know that, while we will do out UTMOST to take care of their frame, there is always a possibility of breakage. A lot of places won't even consider using a POF, even if it is in good condition. ANYWAY, once again, Optiboard has help me out a LOT!
"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."
--Carl Jung
we considered a waiver, everytime a frame breaks when we are cutting pof's, which like cme is one in a thousand maybe, so we, like cme consider it a moot point, and deal with it on a case to case manner. If an optical is having frequent problems in this regard, they had better train their people to look more carefully at the patient's old frames prior to agreeing to cut lenses for them.
This subject came up some time ago and I asked an attorney for his opinion. I didn't like the opinion that he gave me and I asked another attorney the same question. He agreed with the first attorney. Thankfully both of these guys were relatives so I got the advice or free. In any case, apparently these waivers are of no validity. They are a total waste of time. If you accept a frame and break it you must replace it with a product that is of equal or better value. It is an implied warranty under commercial codes and if the offended customer takes the matter to court, you lose.
Unfortunately, most of us don’t consult an attorney until the Lord High Sheriff arrives at the door with a summons or complaint.
Great points, the waivers are of some value they are very similar to EULA's on software or websites, they are more social engineering than anything else. It takes the sting off when a frame does break and it allows us to provide great customer service by replacing the frame instead of the patient feeling like we owed them something. Which as you pointed out we do. Our office for this reason also charges 20.00 for a POF and believe me the number of frame we break is far less than the fee accounts for so we can offer them a frame of greater value in almost every case.
I know that this is a VERY old discussion. However, I wanted to add some insights since this is a very important and much-discussed topic in optical/optometry.
As regard to liability and waivers, someone mentioned the convenent of merchantability or implied warranty law. Depending on the flexibility of the judge seeing the case, it can be argued (and correctly) that this law does NOT apply to eyeglasses since the FDA considers eyeglasses and contact lenses as medical devices. And, according to FDA laws, they don't follow usual consumer protection laws. Hence, results of medical treatment cannot be guaranteed like with normal consumer products.
As far as waivers, only gross negligence cannot be waived by a posted or signed waiver by any retailer or party. The breakage of eyeglasses during the insertion of new lenses wouldn't be deemed gross negligence. When the drycleaner damages your garment, they're only liable up to the disclosed amount on the back of the receipt.....industry norm is like 5-10 times the drycleaning fee. Hence, waivers can be enforced in a court of law since drycleaning cases are often seen in small claims court.
I think perhaps the poster above who mentioned speaking to two lawyers and stated that they said it wasn't enforceable, may be talking about the lens fees. In the event that the POF is broken and the pt cancels the order, the office may not be liable for the POF (if proper waivers were signed) but the office must refund the lens order fees since the customer didn't get that service. It's simple contracts law. For example, if the drycleaner ruined the garment but was deemed not liable for the garment (due to waivers), they must still refund the drycleaning fee since that customer didn't receive the benefits of that service.
This is an 8 year old thread, a time when on-line opticals were still at a baby stage
This is an 8 year old thread, a time when on-line opticals were
still at a baby stage.
Today where some of the largest, best and well equipped optical corporations own also the largest amount of the big on- liners, they can supply any frames with lenses without any problems.
If old frames dried out are used, there should be a policy that removes any responsibility for breakage and is the customers problem. You can always find them an older frame that will take the lenses if needed.
I think the easiest and quickest way is to point out that we charge $40 to refurbish, realign and re-adjust an old frame. No charge and no fault if the frame breaks in the process (rare) in which case there may be a problem finding a new frame to fit those new lenses to. If that happens, you have bought a new pair of lenses that may not be usable.
No single policy will cover all of the possible scenarios that you will encounter when dealing with the public. You can establish a policy to give the farm away or to be a total Dick head.
Of course there is a middle ground. Take each case on an individual basis and do what is right for both you and the customer. Just remember, sometimes you eat the bear and sometime the bear he eats you. And, in the big picture it ain't no big thing either way.
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