What brand of ARC do you use most?

[coda]

It's all about the contact angle when it comes to keeping a lens clean. Crizal Alize has the highest in the biz, 112 to be exact.

There is at least one product on the market with a contact angle of about 120. Since it's not my product I'm not going to pimp it but kudos to them for their performance.

While a high contact angle is indicitive of cleanability it's not that simple, there are a few products with high contact angles (~105) from which finger prints and other natural oils and grease are very difficult to remove. Cleanability is a complicated issue and water contact angle is only one factor. I'm sure others will weigh in on this topic but I like to get my $.02 in early.

[spexer]

Oh go ahead and pimp it, I am sure you have a velvet suit and perhaps a hat with a big ol purple feather in it just waiting for the weekend!
I agree, contact angle is not everything, you have to consider the light transmission, cleanability, edging compatibility, and how well they fare on bayer and steel wool tests. All those factors considered I have had fantastic results with Alize but the market is always moving forward and thank god for that, can you imagine selling the lenses of years ago? I welcome advances.
Consider your 2 cents cashed.

[Chris Ryser]

I think the new Zeiss Carat Advantage has a degree very close to 112 degrees.

Just forget the degrees at which a drop of water beads off. That was and still is a sales gimmick between the different companies in the 90's and it is still going on.

The whole idea about a Hydrophobic topcoat is to seal the surface, so that dirt and facial grease does not penetrate between the microscopic gaps of the AR coating and the lens is easy to clean by just wiping it.

If you want to want to talk about advances in this field, how about talking about the newest and latest type hydrophobic top coat that only one of your fancy brand name AR coaters have picked up yet, but does not advertise it's features.

It contains all the advantages you are talking about, but it provides also ANTI-FOG and ANTI-STATIC properties. The lenses stay clean for days and any fogging up dissipates in 8-9 seconds.
:idea: :idea: :idea:

[DaveD]

originally posted by P Doble

Kind of wondering what the opinions are for Hi Vision from Hoya. Lots of remarks for Crizal and Zeiss but not Hi Vision. Does anyone use it? What's your thoughts on quality, turn time, etc.

Hoya Hi Vision is good but Super Hi Vision is the most scratch resistant AR on the Market. It has a 10.94 Bayer rating I believe that Alize's Bayer rating is 5.2.
Hoya doesn't spend near the advertising dollars as they do on Alize but it is a far superior coating. Sola's Teflon does actually have a Higher Bayer rating than Alize as well I belive it comes in right about 6.0.

[For-Life]

I have used the Super Hi-Vision. It is a great coating, but it does not clean up as well as Alize. As for the scratching, I do not have a problem with scratching with Alize, so to me it is splitting hairs.

I have never been impressed with the Sola Teflon. It is better than UTMC, but not better than the rest.

[rinselberg]

... If you want to want to talk about advances in this field, how about talking about the newest and latest type hydrophobic top coat that only one of your fancy brand name AR coaters have picked up yet, but does not advertise it's features.

It contains all the advantages you are talking about, but it provides also ANTI-FOG and ANTI-STATIC properties. The lenses stay clean for days and any fogging up dissipates in 8-9 seconds.

Hello Chris. Could you fill us in -- could you identify the "one fancy brand name AR coater" that has picked up this new topcoat with ANTI-FOG and ANTI-STATIC properties? Is there a brand name that reliably identifies this product -- a brand name that identifies not just the topcoat, but the entire AR stack including the topcoat?

[Johns]

I have only used the Super Hi Vision once (free coupon), but I must have goten a lemon. The customer just came back after 7 months and it looked like a $4 coating. Ton of scratches, and smears. (May have been abused) I just paid to put him in Alize because it was his first experience with ARC and I didn't want it to end on a bad note.

[For-Life]

I have only used the Super Hi Vision once (free coupon), but I must have goten a lemon. The customer just came back after 7 months and it looked like a $4 coating. Ton of scratches, and smears. (May have been abused) I just paid to put him in Alize because it was his first experience with ARC and I didn't want it to end on a bad note.

That is what it all comes down to. We used the Nikon ICE and got burnt by customers complaining about how hard it was to clean (after the coating came off). At that point we switched them to Alize. You will lose that customer if they are not happy with the coating.

As for that coating Rysler is talking about, I assume it is Super Hi. They never really advertised it like Essilor, Zeiss, Nikon, and Sola have.

[Chris Ryser]

-- could you identify the "one fancy brand name AR coater" that has picked up this new topcoat with ANTI-FOG and ANTI-STATIC properties?

Of course I could............but I wont......In business you are often bound by non disclosure agreements.

Very simple business politics. If some company finds a product on the market that suits their purpose they will buy it, use it, convert it to their own purpose.
They will not tell you the ingredients of their receipe, or a least not more than they have to, in some instances.

Making AR coatings is not a big secret, you need the equipment and the chemicals. However the way you apply the chemicals and which ones you use together in any combination to make a successful end product is a closely guarded secret.

You could compare an AR coating industry to GM and Ford or any other car maker. They are usually assembling products that come from many sub-contarctors and are not made by them. These AR coating companies have to be on the lookout for new products and applications these days as competition becomes more fierce.

One more thing is that large corporations do function with a lot of red tape and are slow to move towards new ideas, while a smaller company is much more flexible. That is why they should not be ignored as they might have a super product long before their mighty competition.

[DaveD]

I have only used the Super Hi Vision once (free coupon), but I must have goten a lemon. The customer just came back after 7 months and it looked like a $4 coating. Ton of scratches, and smears. (May have been abused) I just paid to put him in Alize because it was his first experience with ARC and I didn't want it to end on a bad note.

John, I was just curious what lens material did you put this customer in orignally?