Freeform choices

[MarcE]

Barry's got me thinking. I have been contemplating diving into the freeform progressive lenses. I've been knocking it around for over a year. But my criteria are tough. For example, I will only offer freeform to my patients if transitions is available because often transitions is the last thing mentioned and I don't want to have to tell them "sorry, not available".
So I would like the massive brainpower of the board to help - If you would be so kind.

Here are my criteria:
1. as mentioned, must be available in Transitions
2. must be able to fit as low as 15mm (I'm not going to try a 13mm fit, even if it's possible)
2. must be available in poly, Trivex, 1.60 and at least one of the high-index materials from 1.66 to 1.74. CR-39 availability is of no value to me.
3. must be a design that someone has had good luck with
4. must have turn-around time (w/AR) of one-week or less
5. THis is the most important: I must be able to turn a profit at an $80 add-on charge for the "Freeform" processed lens. And I get my traditionally surfaced lenses pretty inexpensively.

Is there anything even out there? Maybe I need 2 go-to lenses for these criteria. My short list includes Accolade freedom (no trivex:( and no personal experience), Definity, Unique, Autograph II (no experience, is cost an issue?), Hoya iD lifestyle (too expensive??), Seiko/pentax internal (Succeed? Superceed? I don't even know the proper name). I noticed Craig loves the Indo product, but I can't find a lab that even offers it.

I love the combined knowledge and experience of the board, so you are my go-to guys and gals for this type experimental data.

Since this is public, you can PM me with specifics on pricing or any negative comments.

Thanks in advance!!
Marc

[Fezz]

I think the AutoII fits the bill. The Unique may fit most of it. The Seiko will fit most as well.

I suggest you look into:

US Optical-They provide the AutoII, Unique and Seiko. Fast turn times, in house AR.
www.usoptical.com
1-800-445-2773

Or

Pech Optical-They offer the above as well

www.pechoptical.com

1-800-831-2352

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[Jacqui]

Rochester Optical is where I get the Autograph II. I'll get contact info up when I can.

[Uncle Fester]

Shamir got it right. The Auto 2 is available in all the materials and add ons we use. I've now dispensed a few with great success.

My one complaint is that the laser etchings are very noticeable especially if it's got an AR. It's so pronounced that I make a point of telling patients they will probable see it if held "at the right angle" but it has to be there, it's not a defect or scratch and to ignore it.

I'm thinking of getting a sample but so far no patient has balked upon seeing them.

One patient with a short corridor said the near was significantly larger than the Brevity I fit her previously.

9/15/2008 More examples--
1st time progressive Rx R-8.50sph. L-8.00sph. add +1.50 poly AR
Freeform rx R-8.12 -0.38 x66 L-7.64 -0.35x114 add R+1.12 L+1.14
Pts comment "no problem"

Post IOL previous Multigressiv 1.6 R -6.00 Left -6.25 -2.50 x10 add+2.25
New rx -2.75 -2.25 x170 L -5.75 -1.75 10 add +2.50 B=26 Auto 2 Variable 16.5 high "feels good"

mild myope Definity poly to Auto 2 Variable poly "Oh yeah- nice- ghosting gone"

[Fezz]

Hey Unc-

Incoming PM concerning engravings coming at ya!

[JerryR]

Hi Patsy, welcome!!!
As stated on another post I am affiliated with Luzerne Optical Laboratories, they are an authorized laboratory for all of the lenses mentioned in your post respones as well as having in-house AR for both Essilor Crizal coatings and Zeiss Carat coatings amongst others.

[Jacqui]

Rochester Optical is where I get the Autograph II. I'll get contact info up when I can.

Contact Crickett13 on OB. Matt Ballester is the manager for Rochester Optical that makes the Autograph II and they do have a coating lab on-site.

Contact info is here http://www.optiboard.com/forums/member.php?u=5563

[Fezz]

Hi Patsy, welcome!!!
As stated on another post I am affiliated with Luzerne Optical Laboratories, they are an authorized laboratory for all of the lenses mentioned in your post respones as well as having in-house AR for both Essilor Crizal coatings and Zeiss Carat coatings amongst others.

Hey Jerry,

Is Luzerne doing any *free-form* in house? If so, what designs are you producing?

[snowmonster]

MarcE:

Forgive the question, but why are you thinking of switching?

I know the Unique is available in nearly every material under the sun, but we've only done one Freeform and it was on a patient I thought would be a total failure. He did great, but it was his first PAL ever so there's really no comparison.

We just have very few non-adapts with today's PAL's.

[Fezz]

We just have very few non-adapts with today's PAL's.

Great point Doc!

This is what I struggle with. Believe me, I want to provide the very latest and greatest out there. But, I have not had a bunch of *WOW* going on, so I am reluctant to start offering and charging for it.

Could you use your experience with contact lenses and apply to these free-form lenses?

Meaning...I am sure that you have great success with contact lens wearers and the various lenses. Why change? Why upgrade to the newest materials? Etc.......You know what I am getting at.

[MarcE]

MarcE:

Forgive the question, but why are you thinking of switching?

I know the Unique is available in nearly every material under the sun, but we've only done one Freeform and it was on a patient I thought would be a total failure. He did great, but it was his first PAL ever so there's really no comparison.

We just have very few non-adapts with today's PAL's.

That's a good question. It's always good to question why you are doing something.
Sure, we have very few non-adapts. But is it the best vision it can be? Sure I also struggle with what Fezz is talking about. THe few definity's we have used generated a few wows, so have quite a few accolade freedoms and accolades non-freedoms and smallfits, for that matter.
1. I want to have a product that I can offer that is the best visually that it can be. So first I have to be confident that it is better than conventional surfaced lenses.
2. And I want to have a higher-end product for those clients that desire it, or have had problems with previous lenses.

[snowmonster]

Good answers.

[MarcE]

Here is what I learned from this forum and others on Optiboard:


Auto II - available in what I need. Not much profit margin on any of these.
Definity - Ditto except that the turn-around may be a problem because nobody produces it on-site
Accolade Freedom - Ditto to Definity. No Trivex, but it does come in 1.60 Trans.

Plan: Order Auto II and and Accolade Freedom to compare to my Definitys.

I have seen many reviews about the Definity. Any on the Auto II or the Accolade Freedom??

[Optisyen]

Where is Autograph II?
I know only autograph.

[Jacqui]

Here is what I learned from this forum and others on Optiboard:


Auto II - available in what I need. Not much profit margin on any of these.
Definity - Ditto except that the turn-around may be a problem because nobody produces it on-site
Accolade Freedom - Ditto to Definity. No Trivex, but it does come in 1.60 Trans.

Plan: Order Auto II and and Accolade Freedom to compare to my Definitys.

I have seen many reviews about the Definity. Any on the Auto II or the Accolade Freedom??

Autograph II reveiw.

WOW !!!

[Uncle Fester]

I have seen many reviews about the Definity. Any on the Auto II or the Accolade Freedom??

I'm starting a list of ones I'm starting or switching to Auto 2's. Of the 10 or so so far- Wow's- come from older type progressives. A Mutigressiv 2 and Definity I switched were ok with it just not as enthused.

I'm trying to track what the many variables that come with any change but until I have a non adopt I'm not complaining.:)

[MarcE]

Of the 10 or so so far- Wow's- come from older type progressives. A Mutigressiv 2 and Definity I switched were ok with it just not as enthused.

That is a good point. Is it worthwhile to switch the older type progressives to the new 'Wow' lenses? What if they have always been happy with their XLs? Ovations? SOLAMax?

And secondly. How do you present this new lens. Do you just quote a price and don't mention anything about the new great lens or do you try to explain it to them and justify the upcharge? What is your upcharge BTW?

[snowmonster]

I'm starting a list of ones I'm starting or switching to Auto 2's. Of the 10 or so so far- Wow's- come from older type progressives. A Mutigressiv 2 and Definity I switched were ok with it just not as enthused.

So that would be 10 out of 12 patients that have been wow'd over by the new PAL's or have you tried them on quite a few more patients than that?

[KStraker]

We have tried the Accolade Freedom and Lifestyle iD lenses. The iD series seems to have more customization and the patient definitely sees the benefit of the digital lens. As you said though, they aren't cheap. Our doctor wore iD's, got a free pair of Acc freedom, then went back to another pair of iD's.

[MarcE]

We have tried the Accolade Freedom and Lifestyle iD lenses. The iD series seems to have more customization and the patient definitely sees the benefit of the digital lens. As you said though, they aren't cheap. Our doctor wore iD's, got a free pair of Acc freedom, then went back to another pair of iD's.

Thanks for the input. I'm not sure the Lifestyle iD meets my criteria for turning a profit at an $80 upgrade. But I'm sure its very good. An optician on our staff has an original iD and it's her favorite. But no wow. But she doesn't have a special Rx. But she is picky.

[Jubilee]

I *LOVE* my Autograph II. However I will admit it is my one and only pal. Though this by far has been the most comfortable lens I have EVER worn.

While if I order customized lenses from my traditional labs, I could not make much extra from them.. using a "Digital" lab such as Rochester or a few others who are making freeform their niche, the pricing is quite a bit better.

[sharpstick777]

Here is what I learned from this forum and others on Optiboard:


Definity - Ditto except that the turn-around may be a problem because nobody produces it on-site

Freeform lenses are mostly done at specialty processing centers or larger labs because of the special equipment involved, although they are now pushing production farther out on the chain as costs have dropped.

I get my Definities with A/R in 6 days total even though they are processed by Essilor in Dallas and edged at Meridian in AZ.

A huge difference is how quick your lab is on ordering. Some wait to order lenses only when they receive the frame, some will only order lenses the next day, some will the instant they recieve the order.

Van

[AdmiralKnight]

We use the Seiko line exclusively as our freeform options. They have three lenses, the Succeed, the Succeed WS and the Supercede. Most people who are hessitent to switch to the freeform lenses ask the question: "Do you get the wow effect from people?" and I can honestly say I have, with the Supercede.

All three lenses come in great options, transition, polarized (both gray AND brown).

[Uncle Fester]

see examples post #4 9/15/2008

[Jacqui]

see examples post #4 9/15/2008

???