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Thread: Anyone part of "Vision Source!" buying group?

  1. #1
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    Question Anyone part of "Vision Source!" buying group?

    Is anyone out there in a practice that is part of the Vision Source! buying network? If so, any comments?

    Thanks,
    Pete
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Vice President Professional Services
    Essilor of America

    http://linkedin.com/in/pete-hanlin-72a3a74

  2. #2
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    Pete,

    Why don't you ask JA down the hall? Strange to see someone in your position posting this question on the board.

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    Six years ago he may have been in a different position. ;)

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    Optical Clairvoyant OptiBoard Bronze Supporter Andrew Weiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    Six years ago he may have been in a different position. ;)
    And what position does that put those of us who work in Vision Source practices?
    Andrew

    "One must remember that at the end of the road, there is a path" --- Fortune Cookie

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    Optical Clairvoyant OptiBoard Bronze Supporter Andrew Weiss's Avatar
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    On a slightly more serious note :)

    Pete, I'm also wondering what the import of your question is. I know Essilor has a strong presence in Vision Source; is the company evaluating their connection?
    Andrew

    "One must remember that at the end of the road, there is a path" --- Fortune Cookie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Weiss View Post
    And what position does that put those of us who work in Vision Source practices?

    Some would say that this type of practice has already assumed the position!


    (In other words....getting shafted, scr*w*d, taken over, ripped off, taken advantage of, etc. etc, etc.)


    :cheers:;):cheers::D:cheers:;):cheers::D:cheers:

  7. #7
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Oh for pete's sake....check the date on the original post. I think Pete was still at the OD practice he managed.

  8. #8
    On the Sunset Tour! Framebender's Avatar
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    My understanding is . . .

    that Essilor is going to produce a private label lens only available to Vision Source accounts.

    I hope you're all having fun and making money!!

    :cheers:
    Days where my gratitude exceed my expectations are very good days!

  9. #9
    ATO Member OPTIDONN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy Canty View Post
    Oh for pete's sake....check the date on the original post. I think Pete was still at the OD practice he managed.
    HA HA!! For Pete's Sake! I don't know why but It made me laugh:p

  10. #10
    Optical Clairvoyant OptiBoard Bronze Supporter Andrew Weiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy Canty View Post
    Oh for pete's sake....check the date on the original post. I think Pete was still at the OD practice he managed.
    Woops. :o
    Andrew

    "One must remember that at the end of the road, there is a path" --- Fortune Cookie

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    Rising Star Bill Mahnke's Avatar
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    I realize this is an old thread but;
    Why would an optometrist elect to join Vision Source?

    As I understand, members pay 2 to 2.5% of their gross (even on VSP dollars) to Vision Source

    I have been told that after the 1st year it’s extremely difficult to opt out of Vision Source and that you must have their “blessing” if you wish to sell your practice. Does this mean that Vision Source owns a part of the members practice?

    I realize that they have special pricing on products but they don’t appear to provide marketing programs (national advertising, etc.) to drive patients to Vision Source members

    Vision Source appears to be more like apyramid scheme. If you're an administrator you profit from those below you, if not you get screwed!

    I don’t have a bone to pick with VS; I’d truly like to understand what benefit Vision Source provides to their members.




  12. #12
    Optiwizard making films Audiyoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Mahnke View Post
    I realize this is an old thread but;
    Why would an optometrist elect to join Vision Source?

    As I understand, members pay 2 to 2.5% of their gross (even on VSP dollars) to Vision Source

    I have been told that after the 1st year it’s extremely difficult to opt out of Vision Source and that you must have their “blessing” if you wish to sell your practice. Does this mean that Vision Source owns a part of the members practice?

    I realize that they have special pricing on products but they don’t appear to provide marketing programs (national advertising, etc.) to drive patients to Vision Source members

    Vision Source appears to be more like apyramid scheme. If you're an administrator you profit from those below you, if not you get screwed!

    I don’t have a bone to pick with VS; I’d truly like to understand what benefit Vision Source provides to their members.
    The practice I worked for was a VS practice - I was against it for the most part. Pricing was great - the Essilor national price list of VS docs was great - but I had negotiated a great price with the lab we were using (a Essilor partner lab). Once the office became a VS office I noticed that the little things that I had negotiated as being apart of our cut-to-edge price (like rimless mount for example) we were all of a sudden being charged with. So although the lens price was lower, the little add-ons that previously had been apart of our lens price were now separately billed items. So honestly, pricing was a shoot.

    They do offer marketing programs - just Google Vision Source - they are the top two listings. They also provide member doctors with a website (an additional fee above the 2-2.5% from gross) as well as e-commerce. I did appreciate the e-commerce for contacts - it gave us a place to refer our patients who wanted to buy on-line. We could setup the prices and the patient got free shipping. It reduced our having to stock contacts and kept many patients happy. They offer other marketing programs as well - again, for additional fees that I honestly think should be built into the initial fee structure.

    I don't know if it's fair to call VS a pyramid scheme - yes there is a area administrator and his/her job is to recruit as well as help maintain his/her given area in terms of making sure each member OD is aware of promotions, verifying quarterly gross profits and other administrative 'things'. Yes, the administrator gets paid based on how many other doctors sign up in the area - but it's not a pyramid scheme in that other doctors can't profit from signing up more doctors. Only the area administrator can formally invite a doctor to join VS. They are somewhat selective and from what I was reading in their rather oversized manual, they have a national goal and once that goal is met, they plan to freeze membership.

    Basically Vision Source is a overgrown buying group with roughly the same administrative fee structures (the buying group we had been in had an administrative fee per month of around 5.5% of all purchases). But with Vision Source you have access to more than frames, lenses, and contacts. You can purchase software, lane equipment, other diagnostic equipment, dispensing and lab tools, and selling floor aids/tools.

    I still didn't like it because I felt I was being told what to carry. Because the discount is so good on some products you're stupid not to handle them. And they almost bully you into some of their promotions - for example the Alcon promo paid well - but we weren't allowed to so much as display another contact lens solution. We could only give out other solutions if the patient requested a specific one. Otherwise, we had to hand then OptiFree trial packs.

    Oh...And yes, once you're with VS for a year you become vested into the company - basically you own stock in VS. So selling your practice or even getting out of VS is a paperwork nightmare from what I was told by this area's administrator.

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    Audiyoda,

    It sounds like you have had a small change of heart about Vision Source.

    I would like to challenge the statement that Vision Source has similar administration fees to other buying groups. ADO has an annual cap of $4,000 on our administration fees. The $4,000 cap applies even if you have multiple locations. One of our members has over 35 locations and only pays us $4,000.

    Let's look at the math:

    Using the 2.5%, you listed above, a practice with sales of $500,000 will pay VS $12,500.00. The most they would pay us would be $4,000. That is at least an $8,500 difference. Bump it up to a milion dollar practice and the difference goes to $21,000.
    Some would suggest that the difference can be made up with the savings that VS gives. PM me and I will show anyone that the savings is the same in most cases. An added benefit is that though us you are only paying an admin fee on the purchases you make so you won't feel obliged to buy specific products just to justify the expense of joining Vision Source.

    Jobe Sellers
    ADO Buying Group.
    866.448.7388

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    I don't know if this is a new policy or not. But Vision Source has a 5 yr committment with an opt-out at 18 months. No penalty.
    It's expensive, but I don't think it's a scam or pyramid scheme.

    We are not a Vision Source practice. But we looked into it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcE View Post
    I don't know if this is a new policy or not. But Vision Source has a 5 yr committment with an opt-out at 18 months. No penalty.
    It's expensive, but I don't think it's a scam or pyramid scheme.

    We are not a Vision Source practice. But we looked into it.

    MarcE

    Do you mind sharing what made you start to look into it?

    Thanks

    Jobe Sellers
    ADO Buying Group

  16. #16
    Rising Star Bill Mahnke's Avatar
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    Thanks, your comments have given me a better understanding of Vision Source.

    I really didn't believe that Vision Source was a pyramid scheme. It was a poor choice of words but I wanted to describe the fact that the administrator profits from the members that he/she brings in.

  17. #17
    Optiwizard making films Audiyoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADO View Post
    Audiyoda,

    It sounds like you have had a small change of heart about Vision Source.

    I would like to challenge the statement that Vision Source has similar administration fees to other buying groups. ADO has an annual cap of $4,000 on our administration fees. The $4,000 cap applies even if you have multiple locations. One of our members has over 35 locations and only pays us $4,000.

    Let's look at the math:

    Using the 2.5%, you listed above, a practice with sales of $500,000 will pay VS $12,500.00. The most they would pay us would be $4,000. That is at least an $8,500 difference. Bump it up to a milion dollar practice and the difference goes to $21,000.
    Some would suggest that the difference can be made up with the savings that VS gives. PM me and I will show anyone that the savings is the same in most cases. An added benefit is that though us you are only paying an admin fee on the purchases you make so you won't feel obliged to buy specific products just to justify the expense of joining Vision Source.

    Jobe Sellers
    ADO Buying Group.
    866.448.7388
    I really don't want to get into a huge debate on this - I personally don't care that much. But let's compare apples to apples. Do buying groups provide marketing support? Do buying groups provide training materials? Do buying groups provide a free website with e-commerce for their members? Do buying groups offer free or discounted tech support on many of the popular PM software packages currently utilized in office? Do buying groups offer discounts on items beyond consumables (lane equipment, software....)? Do buying groups offer their members a big vendor sponsored extended weekend party at the end of the year? When that party's over, does the buying group split any funds that were left over to pay for that party with their group members?

    Buying Groups offer great perks to their members - Vision Source goes beyond that in many ways. Yes, it costs more. But for many doctors, it's well worth it. For others, the dollars just don't work out and a buying group is a better choice.

  18. #18
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiyoda View Post
    Buying Groups offer great perks to their members - Vision Source goes beyond that in many ways. Yes, it costs more. But for many doctors, it's well worth it. For others, the dollars just don't work out and a buying group is a better choice.
    We have a doctor near us who belongs to VS (he loves it) and our office pays royalties to Pearle as a franchise. I agree with the above statement, if you are shrewd and a great negotiator often you will get better prices and market your own practice, but if all that is daunting then a group like VS may be a no brainer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiyoda View Post
    I really don't want to get into a huge debate on this - I personally don't care that much. But let's compare apples to apples. Do buying groups provide marketing support? Do buying groups provide training materials? Do buying groups provide a free website with e-commerce for their members? Do buying groups offer free or discounted tech support on many of the popular PM software packages currently utilized in office? Do buying groups offer discounts on items beyond consumables (lane equipment, software....)? Do buying groups offer their members a big vendor sponsored extended weekend party at the end of the year? When that party's over, does the buying group split any funds that were left over to pay for that party with their group members?

    Buying Groups offer great perks to their members - Vision Source goes beyond that in many ways. Yes, it costs more. But for many doctors, it's well worth it. For others, the dollars just don't work out and a buying group is a better choice.
    The answer to the majority of these questions is yes. We don't have a relationship with the PM software systems and we don't have the big party.

    We also have some great programs that VS does not offer!

    Thanks for listening.

    Jobe Sellers
    ADO Buying Group.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADO View Post
    MarcE

    Do you mind sharing what made you start to look into it?

    Thanks

    Jobe Sellers
    ADO Buying Group
    Saving $. But what also interested us is some of the stuff that Audio mentioned. The practice management advice is better than some I have seen from outrageously compensated consultants. The party they talk about is not just a party, but a practice management seminar - No CE, just business talk.

    We are growing every month. We aren't going to pay 2.5% for the ability to save money. Our discounts are pretty good already and we don't use much of the big 5 frames companies that VS has negotiated great deals with. All of our equipment is newly bought.

    I'll tell you the truth. I wish we would have signed up with them in the beginning and dropped after 18 months (right after the party!). We would have learned stuff much faster and saved some $ on our new equipment.

    I'm always interested in learning about new ways to save money, but I don't like paying a lot. I just want everything, and I want it for free. Is that too much to ask? You can PM me.

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