Compression Mounts

[chip anderson]

I have had so much trouble (daily) with compression mounts that become loose after a period of time (two weeks or two years doesn't matter.) I have come to wonder if this is a satisfactory method of lens mount at all, reguardless of frame brand (please don't bother posting how wonderfull the line you prefer is), brand of inserts used, or who the lab origionally doing the job is. I also have observed a number of variations that have caused me to wonder just what is the proper method of applying same.
Hense the following questions.
1) Should the plastic insert be trimmed exactly flush with the lens or should the insert be allowed to be slightly above the lens?
2) Should the insert be "stiffer" or "Softer" have seen some variations of insert brands but no enough to determine the "best."
3) What are the "Best" tools for removing and inserting the inserts and frame parts? I have bought and use a number of specialized tools for this but they all work excellently sometimes and leave something to be desired in others.
4) I have come to suspect that re-clamping old inserts is just putting off the inevitable replacement no matter how satisfactory it seems after re-clamping.
5) And yes I already know how wonderfull trivex is.
6) anyone ever thought of possibly using tapered mounting holes in the lens? Any possiblility this would be worth doing?

Your thoughts please, and no not every patient will find that they think
Sillhouette frames meet thier desires. Unless a frame or line proves itself to be junk, we have to sell what we can afford and what sells to the customer.

Chip

[Chris Ryser]

................we have to sell what we can afford and what sells to the customer.
Chip

If mounting Polycarbonate lenses a drop of "Drillseal" in every hole will prevent crazing from the holes.

Many labs are using it and if you have them done in a lab make sure they are making the drilled holes safe against crazing.

[Framebender]

when I trim the insert. The thing I've found that helps is to turn a hot air blower on high heat with the air blowing straight into the insert. Then quickly mount the harware, snug it up and drop it in a bowl of ice water. It doesn't need to be in the hot air more than a second or two and the insert will still shrink up around the barbs on the post. I'm with you though, they're generally a pain to deal with.

Nice to see you back!

:cheers:

[Now I See]

Hi...glad to "see" you Chip!

I usually leave the plastic sleeve just a tiny bit long (I like the softer ones better than the rigid ones)...I've also found that the base curve of the lens has a great deal to do with my success with drilled fames. Seems like a 4 or 6 base works better, when I edge/drill them in-house. I've never had any trouble with cracking lenses as long as I give the holes a little "safety bevel" on each side.

[For-Life]

I think the compression mounts are VERY overrated.

The best system is when the screw goes behind the lens and mounts into the front. Unlike the nut and bolt system, it will not loosen over time. Unlike the compression mount system, it will not fall off.

[Now I See]

I think the compression mounts are VERY overrated.

The best system is when the screw goes behind the lens and mounts into the front. Unlike the nut and bolt system, it will not loosen over time. Unlike the compression mount system, it will not fall off.

I don't think I've ever seen that type...so all you see is the head of the screw on the back of the lens?

I have used the compression mount, and the "nut & bolt" type, I like them both...but I'd be interested to know more about the type that you like, ForLife.

[Uncle Fester]

Hense the following questions.
1) Should the plastic insert be trimmed exactly flush with the lens or should the insert be allowed to be slightly above the lens?I trim it flush with a razor.
2) Should the insert be "stiffer" or "Softer" have seen some variations of insert brands but no enough to determine the "best."soft
3) What are the "Best" tools for removing and inserting the inserts and frame parts? I have bought and use a number of specialized tools for this but they all work excellently sometimes and leave something to be desired in others. For inserting Silhouettes specialty plier. For a broken hinge piece that's flush at the lens edge I use an old small cutting plier (not chappel but like an electricians wire cutter).
4) I have come to suspect that re-clamping old inserts is just putting off the inevitable replacement no matter how satisfactory it seems after re-clamping. True. Once loose forever loose.
5) And yes I already know how wonderfull trivex is.
6) anyone ever thought of possibly using tapered mounting holes in the lens? Any possiblility this would be worth doing? Nope and no. (imo)
Chip

I only carry Silhouettes as I am fortunate enough to work in a relatively wealthy community. I also feel that the pain of dealing with them should be compensating the practice proportionally. I strongly discourage selling them in over a -4.00.

[For-Life]

I don't think I've ever seen that type...so all you see is the head of the screw on the back of the lens?

I have used the compression mount, and the "nut & bolt" type, I like them both...but I'd be interested to know more about the type that you like, ForLife.

Yes. I used it a few years back with one Canadian company here and now Eschenbach uses it with its drill mounts.

What you get is this screw that comes at variable lengths. The front of the frame has the part where you put the screw in (the doohicky). You then estimate the length that the screw should be. You take the screw and cut off the desired length. Mount it in until it is tight. If there is a gap in between the lens and the screw, take the screw out, cut a thread or two off, and repeat.

The only caution point is that when you tighten the screw, you have to stop when tight. Otherwise, you will snap the screw. You tend to learn once, and never do it again.


Sounds confusing, but compared to the compression mounts, I find it relieving.

[optigrrl]

I dispensed a large amount of the Silhouette's and found that Aspex had a tool kit for their compression mounts that worked great!

For insertion - trim grommets flush, open slightly with a thumbtack and push the endpiece in manually to stabelize, making sure I didn't press the rear of the grommet out. Then I use the specialty plier, holding the jaw against the backside with my thumb and pressing the endpiece into the grommet. This is to make sure I didn't press the back of the grommet out of the holes on the back of the lens.

Never had a loosening issue, unless there was actual damage to the frame and lenses.

IMHO - the Silhouettes were a breeze compared to the Airlocks. Worked part time for an OD who sold them on the weekends and had one in every week. I did not look forward to having to fix those!

[Fezz]

Airlocks BLOW!!!

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[allanon]

The key to Silhouettes is to use their bushing. The key to non-silhouettes is to use a Silhouette bushing. We sell about 150 Silhouette drill mounts each year and I have to replace the bushings on less than 5 per year.

I cut them close to flush, apply pressure to the back of the bushing to keep it flush with the back surface, then push the frame in from the front. Most of the ones I see that loosen weren't flush with the back surface of the lens, allowing some play in the mount.

[ScottV]

I have had so much trouble (daily) with compression mounts that become loose after a period of time (two weeks or two years doesn't matter.) I have come to wonder if this is a satisfactory method of lens mount at all, reguardless of frame brand (please don't bother posting how wonderfull the line you prefer is), brand of inserts used, or who the lab origionally doing the job is. I also have observed a number of variations that have caused me to wonder just what is the proper method of applying same.
Hense the following questions.
1) Should the plastic insert be trimmed exactly flush with the lens or should the insert be allowed to be slightly above the lens?
2) Should the insert be "stiffer" or "Softer" have seen some variations of insert brands but no enough to determine the "best."
3) What are the "Best" tools for removing and inserting the inserts and frame parts? I have bought and use a number of specialized tools for this but they all work excellently sometimes and leave something to be desired in others.
4) I have come to suspect that re-clamping old inserts is just putting off the inevitable replacement no matter how satisfactory it seems after re-clamping.
5) And yes I already know how wonderfull trivex is.
6) anyone ever thought of possibly using tapered mounting holes in the lens? Any possiblility this would be worth doing?

Your thoughts please, and no not every patient will find that they think
Sillhouette frames meet thier desires. Unless a frame or line proves itself to be junk, we have to sell what we can afford and what sells to the customer.

Chip

Hello Mr. Anderson!

(Sounds like "the Matrix")

Based on my experience of many years dealing with the "compression mount system" There are several factors to consider.

The softness of the plug is deterimined by the flexibility of the frame. ie if the frame is very flexible, a softer plug is used. The theory behind this is that you will have more forgivness with the plug wear because of the amount of pressure put on it during normal wear.

I have to comment on the Brand because I think it has everything to do with what you have asked. Warning*****Do not read any further, unless you wish to be subject to my rant!******

I know that the Silhouette brand has 2 main plugs-- Bls40 & Bls58.
40 being the softer one & used in TMA series & TNG series.
58 being used in Folding rimless & Enviso, Edge.

58 is also used in the adidas collection (stainless steel).

Silhouette plugs are made of spx (s=Silhouette, p=Polyamide, X= secret)
Combined with the frame design It has proven to be the only solution.
SPX wears well & is less affected by external factors such as temp, skin oils, smoking, make-up. It is more flexible that other plugs made by the followers.

Plugs are always cut flush to front surface of the lens. Silhouette also has a very good mounting kit for its frames.

Always use a new plug, you cannot tighten an existing mount that has loosenend.

All holes must be tapered slightly-use a tapered bit from a dremel tool.

Your time is too valuable & having a "daily" trouble with this is unacceptable.

Have you tried Silhouette in your store? It is quite an investment but your customer satisfaction will go up on rimless. Rimless is here to stay.
There are opticals out there that feel there customer cannot afford it. I have several that have converted to Silhouette & never looked back.

If I can be of any help, PM me.

Scott

[sparky]

I assemble all compresion mounts the same. After drilling the holes I tape them and use a safetypin to poke through. Put the bushing in and cut flush, ( use infant finger nail clippers). Heat with hot blower and assemble. Hilco makes a tool which works for compressing most brands of 3 pc. mounts. I then put it in cold water. that usually makes the mount very tight. If you use a particular brand, ahve you thought of talking to the rep about the best way to mount them?

[cocoisland58]

I don't think I've ever seen that type...so all you see is the head of the screw on the back of the lens?

My "discontinued" Ralph Lauren sunglasses are mounted this way. Haven't had an issue yet after two years.

As far as compression mounts. We only use Silhouettes. I have no problem inserting and mounting but I will not remove the old stuff. I have not yet figured out how to do it without scratching the darn lens even bsing as careful as possible. We have an employee who worked in the lab and is quite good at it so it's always "here ya go".

[LilKim]

1) Always trim flush with the lens.
2) Depends on the lens material. The best and longest-lasting inserts seem to be from Safilo--those things will NEVER loosen up! The frame will break before the prongs loosen in the lens!...the only problem is that their regular inserts measure 3.20mm, and the majority of prongs on compression-style drill mounts measure 3.0mm. If you drill the holes 3mm apart and use Safilo inserts, you'll put stress on the outside of the holes, and if you drill holes at 3.2mm and use another type of compression insert, you'll put stress between the holes. Charmant's inserts are a close second. Silhouette's work well as long as they are firmly in the hole, no wiggle room whatsoever. Some frames have thicker prongs that will just not fit into a "firm" insert, only then would Silhouette's be ideal. I use Safilo's and Charmants' "firmer" inserts in thin polycarb, hi index and some cr39, and Silhouette's "softer" inserts in thick poly and all cr39 and all hi index.
3) Angled cutters, thumbtacks and for frame removal, the best is a pair of pliers from Sadler (sorry, can't think of the model).
4) Why on earth would you re-use inserts? That's just asking to have them returned for either the whole frame wobbling or the lenses actually falling out.
5) I hate trivex. I don't care what the sales rep says.
6) If you drill from the backside, which is what the Optidrill does, they're already tapered at the front on the lens, which ensures a better "grab" on the inserts.

To me, it doesn't matter whether you're using the most expensive line of compression drill mounts (Airlocks, Silhouettes, Safilos, etc), I'll never give up my nut n' bolt Rodenstock titanium frame!

[coffee joe]

I'm sorry to hear that you're having so much trouble with your compression mounts chip. i do allot of 3 pieces and most of them are compression. off the top of my head i'd have to say that we have about as many of those come back with a problem as any other type of frame. of course they are more fragile than other designs. ptnt mishandling is the most common problem i see. the next most common problem i see is poorly drilled holes (not mine obviously!!! :P). most of the drilled i do are still in polly. if you're using poly, it's important not to over heat the material with the drill bit. i keep my drill speed way down and work my way through the material slowly with an up and down 'pecking' motion using a slow smooth movement. i find that this gives me a very clean hole. this is important because you can use a slightly smaller bit to make a smaller hole that will fit tighter. the hole is less likely to spider because it has fewer flaws in its wall. also, chamfering the edges of the holes is very important for the strength and durability of the hole. this has two benefits for your problem. once again, stronger holes can be smaller and take the extra pressure. also, holes that spider, grow, making them looser. let me repeat that. holes that spider, grow, making them looser.

1)
Always trim the sleeve flush with the front of the lens. the reason for this is, you want the post to have as much friction on its sides as possible and any protruding sleeve isn't being pushed against the side of the hole to create this friction. also, any protruding sleeve material is pushing the chassis away from the lens.

2)
never gave it much thought.

3)
i am partial to western's line of tools for almost everything rimless. and no i don't work for them or anything like that. i'm just a satisfied customer.

4)
you are absolutely correct. always use new bushings.

5)
i'm still not convinced. if you're looking for a material that's an improvement from poly, look at mr-10

6)
by 'tapered' do you mean not parallel? if so i would say nothing ventured, nothing gained but i'm highly doubtful. i hypothesize that you will see more hole defects and broken posts.

btw... why so much hate for air lock. i've had allot of success with them and find them very easy to mount. now invincilites can go away imho. they need to pick a damn size for their mounting hardware and stick with it. as if there aren't enough small parts to keep track of in a lab.

bbtw... does anyone know of a supplier that has a wide array of sleeves available in different materials and dimensions?

[Fezz]

I
btw... why so much hate for air lock. i've had allot of success with them and find them very easy to mount.

I don't have a problem mounting airlocks. The problem I have had is that I have had to replace just about every single one that I dispensed-defective. I honestly think that I have replaced EVERY single one!

:angry::cheers::angry:

[KStraker]

IMHO - the Silhouettes were a breeze compared to the Airlocks. Worked part time for an OD who sold them on the weekends and had one in every week. I did not look forward to having to fix those!

That's odd. I have great luck with the Airlocks, but I can't do a thing with the Silhouette.

[DragonLensmanWV]

We don't carry Silhouettes (we are stopping any puchase from Lux) but we see a lot of broken ones in here that people got elsewhere, but can't seem to work on them.
If the frame is total toast, we replace it with a Kishimoto chassis that won't break. Otherwise we replace temples or bridge with a Kishimoto part so the customer wil not have any further problems. Then we usually see them when it's time for a new Rx. Almost invariably, they come to us with broken pins or cracked poly lenses. We replace with Trivex lenses and Kishimoto frames and then we see them only for adjustments.
I've found the Hilco sleeves to be pretty effective

[scriptfiller]

I first drill the hole at a 90 degree angle to the base curve of the lense. Second, I use the Silhouette BLS 40 sleeves on 90% of my jobs. Third, I cut the sleeve flush to the lense using a cuticle trimmer, it has a nice flat straight edge. Fourth, if the sleeve has not been cut cleanly I will use a push tack to open the sleeve. Fifth, I use the Silhouette compression pliers to fit the piece to the lense.

I do find the Silhouette barbs the best.

[allanon]

We don't carry Silhouettes (we are stopping any puchase from Lux)

What exactly do you mean?

[DragonLensmanWV]

What exactly do you mean?

Isn't Silhouette still part of Lux?

[scriptfiller]

To my knowledge Silhouette has never been part of Lux.

Although, give Lux. enough time.......

[DragonLensmanWV]

To my knowledge Silhouette has never been part of Lux.

Although, give Lux. enough time.......

30 years ago we got our Silhouette frames from our Avante-Garde rep, which became Luxottica, so I guessed they were still at least an unofficial part of Lux.

[Happylady]

I don't have a problem mounting airlocks. The problem I have had is that I have had to replace just about every single one that I dispensed-defective. I honestly think that I have replaced EVERY single one!

I hear you! The ones without a hinge get brittle and break usually sometime in the second year. We have a one year warranty with all our frames but I started to replace these free anyway.

They were defective, Marchon would always take them back and usually the people had spent a lot of money on the glasses. I personally wouldn't carry them if I had a choice and I try never to sell them. I recommend the ones with the hindge every time.