New Zeiss Returns Policy?

[Stylus]

I got a letter from CZV today with their new returns address and another page with the returns policy as of September 1. It contains this line: "Non-adapt lenses are not accepted; this is not directly related to a manufacturing error."

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but does this mean what I think it means?

[Barry Santini]

No problem...where's the price *decrease* that reflects this new policy?

Barry

[Uncle Fester]

I got a letter from CZV today with their new returns address and another page with the returns policy as of September 1. It contains this line: "Non-adapt lenses are not accepted; this is not directly related to a manufacturing error."

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but does this mean what I think it means?

Sorry to say but this would tremendously affect my lens recommendation. To a new patient especially. And would be a deal breaker to choosing a Zeiss partnered lab unless the lab agrees to disregard this policy.

Or will this be like the airlines and the rest are soon to follow?

I'm starting to switch most VSP patients into Creation and Autograph 2's anyway so it may be a moot point. So far no nonadapts!

[For-Life]

It is amazing, in an industry where Essilor continues to gain market share, it just seems like its competitors just do not care. If this is true, will this save CZV money? Yes, but how much will it cost it.

The best way the company can improve its profits is to do more to make us want to buy from it. Why do people buy from Essilor? Figure that out, and get them to buy from you.

[Jacqui]

No problem...where's the price *decrease* that reflects this new policy?

Barry

Surely you jest

[HarryChiling]

The best way the company can improve its profits is to do more to make us want to buy from it.

Raise your hands if you think any manufacturer gives a non adapt warranty because their lenses are that good? It's a marketing tool and nothing more and it's outlived it's usefulness at least in traditional surfaced progressives but I bet the new FF GT2 I heard wind of will still carry the warranty.

[karen]

since the manufacturer merely gives the lab an extra percentage to cover such things it's not like there really is a "warranty" It's not like we can send them back or anything. Y'all noticed the person who posted this works for a lab, right? We rarely pass those things on to you guys. Don't even get me started on how we only get 50% on a Crizal redo and never pass that charge on to our accounts. :angry:

I wonder if we got one of those letters.......

[For-Life]

Raise your hands if you think any manufacturer gives a non adapt warranty because their lenses are that good? It's a marketing tool and nothing more and it's outlived it's usefulness at least in traditional surfaced progressives but I bet the new FF GT2 I heard wind of will still carry the warranty.

and yet, they get rid of the tool. Great idea!

[optigrrl]

The best way the company can improve its profits is to do more to make us want to buy from it. Why do people buy from Essilor? Figure that out, and get them to buy from you.

While I was dispensing, my Essilor lab did change their redo warranty for 50% on the 1st Dr. redo, 100% on the second. They lost alot of business until they changed the policy. CZV will do the same.

Another sad fact is that I actually had an account tell me that an Essilor rep out and out said they could buy my accounts' business - "just say the word. Whaddaya need, new edger? Cash?"

Just passing along what this person said to me, not making a judgement...however that might be a dealmaker to some people on what lab to use.

[Uncle Fester]

Don't even get me started on how we only get 50% on a Crizal redo and never pass that charge on to our accounts. :angry:

We feel and share your pain. If you dare-- pray tell how much is this? Of course post the answer to this in the Pro's forum.

You do realize that those of us in the trenches are spending significant time trouble shooting every non adapt and we're not sending it back just because we can.

[allanon]

Just makes me thankful that I dropped Zeiss like a bad habit.

[optigrrl]

Just makes me thankful that I dropped Zeiss like a bad habit.

I think that eventually all the labs will go that route, once freeform becomes the standard and can be produced economically for the ECP.

[Chris Ryser]

I got a letter from CZV today with their new returns address and another page with the returns policy as of September 1. It contains this line: "Non-adapt lenses are not accepted; this is not directly related to a manufacturing error."

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but does this mean what I think it means?

The fist major corporation to smarten up. Obviously this is the result of too many non-adapts that have been coming back for digestion by CZV............... This includes the cost of the lens plus the labor and cost of surfacing and finishing at the lab level.

This is the direct result of optical retail sales people pushing these most expensive lenses on patients that should not wear them.out of hundreds of different reasons. Careless selling of this type lens has been going on forever mostly out of greed by the retailers. but also out of some ignorance by many.

I would just about make a bet that the brass at Essilor is heavily turning the thoughts of following suite. If CZV had to make the first step they most probably be not the only ones in a very short while.

It is vary easy to sell super expensive lenses in the retail optical if you can assure the customer that if it don't work out, the manufacturer will take it back, no questions asked.

The independent optician, without red tape, can easily change his selling policy and have his employees spend the time to clarify according to the basic rules, if the patient is a good case for progressives or not.

However some chains that employ non qualified person-el to sell their products, .........................and even more so in non regulated states...............will run into some serious problems and will have to re-think their sales policy's.

Progressive lenses are superb products for the right people to wear and use them...............but they are also awfully bad lenses for the patients who's visual demands do not qualify their use.

Carl Zeiss Vision now has the guts to throw the ball and the responsibility back into the hands of the retailer who has been carelessly selling progressive lenses because he was never at risk to loose anything, while the manufacturer and the labs had to absorb the cost. Another move to correct during tougher times. Very probably the other companies will give you similar news very soon.

[morinput]

How about having a lab that gives an additional net discount (say 10-15%) to accounts that agree to self warrant everything except lab errors?

[allanon]

I have never had a non-adapt on a Brevity or a Gradal Top. Never's a strong word. GT2 - I had 23 non-adapts in the year that we used it.

[DragonLensmanWV]

You guys have non-adapts?


:D

[Happylady]

I have never had a non-adapt on a Brevity or a Gradal Top. Never's a strong word. GT2 - I had 23 non-adapts in the year that we used it.

That's a lot. What was the problem with this lens that caused that?

[Dougfir8]

The fist major corporation to smarten up. Obviously this is the result of too many non-adapts that have been coming back for digestion by CZV............... This includes the cost of the lens plus the labor and cost of surfacing and finishing at the lab level.

This is the direct result of optical retail sales people pushing these most expensive lenses on patients that should not wear them.out of hundreds of different reasons. Careless selling of this type lens has been going on forever mostly out of greed by the retailers. but also out of some ignorance by many.

I would just about make a bet that the brass at Essilor is heavily turning the thoughts of following suite. If CZV had to make the first step they most probably be not the only ones in a very short while.

It is vary easy to sell super expensive lenses in the retail optical if you can assure the customer that if it don't work out, the manufacturer will take it back, no questions asked.

The independent optician, without red tape, can easily change his selling policy and have his employees spend the time to clarify according to the basic rules, if the patient is a good case for progressives or not.

However some chains that employ non qualified person-el to sell their products, .........................and even more so in non regulated states...............will run into some serious problems and will have to re-think their sales policy's.

Progressive lenses are superb products for the right people to wear and use them...............but they are also awfully bad lenses for the patients who's visual demands do not qualify their use.

Carl Zeiss Vision now has the guts to throw the ball and the responsibility back into the hands of the retailer who has been carelessly selling progressive lenses because he was never at risk to loose anything, while the manufacturer and the labs had to absorb the cost. Another move to correct during tougher times. Very probably the other companies will give you similar news very soon.

If you notice, most promotions (did you get the trip to Italy) go for PAL's of some kind, not SV or FT28! The rest of them go for overpriced AR coatings or Transitions®.

[For-Life]

The fist major corporation to smarten up. Obviously this is the result of too many non-adapts that have been coming back for digestion by CZV............... This includes the cost of the lens plus the labor and cost of surfacing and finishing at the lab level.

This is the direct result of optical retail sales people pushing these most expensive lenses on patients that should not wear them.out of hundreds of different reasons. Careless selling of this type lens has been going on forever mostly out of greed by the retailers. but also out of some ignorance by many.

I would just about make a bet that the brass at Essilor is heavily turning the thoughts of following suite. If CZV had to make the first step they most probably be not the only ones in a very short while.

It is vary easy to sell super expensive lenses in the retail optical if you can assure the customer that if it don't work out, the manufacturer will take it back, no questions asked.

The independent optician, without red tape, can easily change his selling policy and have his employees spend the time to clarify according to the basic rules, if the patient is a good case for progressives or not.

However some chains that employ non qualified person-el to sell their products, .........................and even more so in non regulated states...............will run into some serious problems and will have to re-think their sales policy's.

Progressive lenses are superb products for the right people to wear and use them...............but they are also awfully bad lenses for the patients who's visual demands do not qualify their use.

Carl Zeiss Vision now has the guts to throw the ball and the responsibility back into the hands of the retailer who has been carelessly selling progressive lenses because he was never at risk to loose anything, while the manufacturer and the labs had to absorb the cost. Another move to correct during tougher times. Very probably the other companies will give you similar news very soon.

fine, but like one poster said, where is the price cut to compensate for this change?

[Stylus]

I expected someone to reply with something like, "Oh, no, you read it wrong. You still send non-adapts to the old address" or something like that. I guess I read it right after all.

I guess the opticians we sell to know what they're doing, since we really don't get all that many non-adapts, but if I know my customers, they won't buy something without that warranty, even if they've had a perfect adaptation rate. I've been trying to wean some of them from Zeiss anyway. This will just make it easy. I just wanted to make sure it was true before I told them about it.

[karen]

You do realize that those of us in the trenches are spending significant time trouble shooting every non adapt and we're not sending it back just because we can.

I know that YOU do that and thank you :D I also have accounts that use their Dr redo when their lasik patient get their new after surgery RX 5 months and 29 days after we made them so unfortunately your ethics, morals and skill get lost in the fray. I hear people sell lenses and AR on the warranty alone while I am waiting in their waiting rooms.

moreinput. i LOVE that idea and if I was in charge would likely implement something along those lines.

[finefocus]

This is the direct result of optical retail sales people pushing these most expensive lenses on patients that should not wear them.out of hundreds of different reasons. Careless selling of this type lens has been going on forever mostly out of greed by the retailers. but also out of some ignorance by many.

Carl Zeiss Vision now has the guts to throw the ball and the responsibility back into the hands of the retailer who has been carelessly selling progressive lenses because he was never at risk to loose anything, while the manufacturer and the labs had to absorb the cost. Another move to correct during tougher times. Very probably the other companies will give you similar news very soon.

I don't think the biggest problem is greed; I sell PAL's because I believe in them. The biggest problem is that at the first mention of a problem, non-capable dispensers access the re-do policy. If they could do basic adjustments, many of the problems would be solved; if they could trouble-shoot properly, most of the 'non-adapts' would be happy wearers; and if they explained the use of these lenses, created realistic expectations initially, the questions would not come up. Some other poster (Fezz?) mentioned getting down to work in the trenches, solving these problems through proper fitting. Our non-adapt rate is very low. We have many patients who take our Rx's elsewhere, and have trouble, which we solve. We use good lenses, but a VIP properly fitted is better than a FF fitted badly. It's not the lens, it's the Optician.

PS-it was Uncle Fester in the trenches.

[Fezz]

I
PS-it was Uncle Fester in the trenches.

Yo Bro.....

I am knee deep down in the trenches too!! I am so deep in the trenches that most Opticians stand on my shoulders to survive! Oh, yeah...I am in the trenches and carrying those weaker than I!

;):cheers::D:cheers:;)

[k12311997]

Yo Bro.....

I am knee deep down in the trenches too!! I am so deep in the trenches that most Opticians stand on my shoulders to survive! Oh, yeah...I am in the trenches and carrying those weaker than I!

;):cheers::D:cheers:;)

I once saw FEZZ take a bullet for another Optician. or was that buy a silver bullet (Coors light) for an Optician? for some reason I can never seem to clearly recollect time spent with FEZZ.

[KStraker]

Our stuff is in a box and waiting to ship. We'll beat the date, and then probably go out of the Sola business. We've been testing the Concord series from Ilenco and the results have been very good to say the least.