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Thread: New Eyemed thread!

  1. #1
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    New Eyemed thread!

    The question was about frame requirements!

    If you are in a rural location it is true that you don't have to buy any frames at this time. Each Lux Rep has a list of what is considered rural areas. That however does not mean you will never have to buy frames. When you start making claims you may be asked at that time to buy!

    You must display 150 frames at all times. If you are not seeing many lives. This may not be strickly enforced but agian if you do see lives you will be asked to carry them!

    I have accounts in rural areas and I have them add 10 or 20 board spaces each visit so they won't get Zonked when the are asked to fill the buckets.

    The deal on the table right now is 150 frames 10 free and 8 Months to pay. No bill for 3 months the 5 split bills. Plus if you pay by the 10 of each month you get 2% prompt pay for each month. (This deal could end at any time)

    If you are a current ECPA member you can also get a sample fund program. You buy 100 frames 12 month dating and get 50 Pre-selected frames that you must replenish or adjust from time to time. This deal ends Oct. 12th

    I hope this helps !!!

  2. #2
    Moderator - Joann Raytar
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    Thanks optirep! That explains why a couple of us had conflicting information.

    One of our stores currently is enrolled in the first deal you mentioned. Is it too late for our more rural store to ask about the ECPA deal?

  3. #3
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    If you were on ECPA before-you can do the deal until Oct. 12th

    If you rural shop is on ECPA I would recomend this deal. After the 12th it MAY never happen again.

    I like the 1 for 15 free frame deal better. It's like 6% better discount. But in a rural account the other deal may make better sense.

  4. #4
    Moderator - Joann Raytar
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    Question Lives?

    ...they have gone form 2 million lives to 30 million lives in less than 3 years.
    Do these numbers include ECPA members? Does EyeMed see itself as becoming the largest provider in the near future? Do you have any idea where the largest concentration of lives come from (ex - the East Coast, West Coast)?

  5. #5
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    30 million is all lives combined!

    And I believe they would love to be the largest plan! V.S.P. Has been around for 30 or 40 years so they have a little head start.

    Eyemed lives are all over! Some places have many more lives than others but that changes month to month.

    New contrats are signed everyday.

    Your reps should have a list of local and national contrats from Eyemed and ECPA

  6. #6
    Moderator - Joann Raytar
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    Is there an EyeMed website where folks could read up on some information?

  7. #7
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    WWW.EYMEDVISIONCARE.COM


    You also file your claims at this site

  8. #8
    OptiBoard Professional Mike Fretto's Avatar
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    We recieved a memo stating we would be getting started with EyeMed how does it affect our onsite lab. Are we able to process the eyeglasses or is it similar to VSP in that they have to be done at the contracted lab.
    Mike

  9. #9
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Question eyemed

    :hammer: How many more lives will eyemed get, has anyone thought about the day that say everyone is on an eyemed plan? Can you afford to give up that much money? Insurance for glasses is a ripoff and is never going to be good for this business. There,s just a heck of a lot of gullible people out there.

  10. #10
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    Mike,

    You can do your own lab work or use your own lab!

    You make the most money when you do your own lab work!

    Also if you sell the customer up to a varilux panamic or crizal coating (Or any premium product) you charge them 80% of your normal customary fees.

    Insurance plans or not selling up and selling second pairs become more and more important when the economy starts to slow!

  11. #11
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    One more point!

    Eyemed is one of the only funded plans that allows opticians to sign-Up. Opticians have been squeezed out of most plans unless the O.D. they hire is on the plan.

  12. #12
    Bad address email on file Darris Chambless's Avatar
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    Hello Optirep,

    I'm the guy you didn't want to see come in on this subject, but I promise not to go into all the details I've gone into with "rep" before. The long and short of it is this: Eyemed makes Luxottica more money, which there is nothing wrong with and I've never faulted them for what their doing. It's smart business. But I will limit the amount of business I do with them because I refuse to get myself or my patients caught up in the cogs.

    I've heard the arguement of "If Eyemed makes more money wouldn't it stand to reason that prividers are making more money?" Some do but most don't.

    There is a flaw in your reasoning reguarding the economy and the benefits therein to the Eyemed plan (so I pray you're not an economic anylist for the company because I'm sure they would see it differently which I will point out in a second.)

    "Insurance plans or not selling up and selling second pairs become more and more important when the economy starts to slow!" Nothing could be more incorrect than that. It's just not possible to be more wrong. When the economy slows you do what you can to get MORE money into the economy i.e. increasing sales in any business, cutting taxes and lowering intrest rates to get people to start spending. That's where the economy comes from not from third party plans or reducing up sales.

    Luxottica knows this as well and they use it to sell more of their plans to more would be providers. Luxottica isn't taking less to help with the slow economy and in fact are positioning themselves to take even more through administrative duties which are much less costly than warehousing and selling products.

    This part is for everyone to see:

    "Also if you sell the customer up to a varilux panamic or crizal coating (Or any premium product) you charge them 80% of your normal customary fees."

    A business makes more charging 100% of their normal or customary fees. Not to mention their UC fees are usually based on the total income required (emphasisi on "required") to maintain the business and make a profit. So Eyemed is saying "Look how nice we are. We'll let you take 80% of your UC when the other guys make you take even less." To me, personally, that ain't a deal, it's a discount that I'm being forced to give. I don't want a company that has no financial stake in my business dictating how much money I will or won't take in through the promise of patients I may never see.

    I would also like to analyze this same sentence a little more "Also if you"...YOU, the person doing all the work... "sell the customer up to a varilux panamic or crizal coating"... This would be an up sell which according to you isn't what one should do during an economic slowdown... "(Or any premium product)" Read the afore mentioned..."you charge them 80% of your normal customary fees." Translation you take 20% LESS than what you normally would be taking if you were set up on private pay. You don't gain anything by getting into this plan and in fact take 20% LESS than you normally would on the thinly veiled promise of patients (lives) that may or may not exist in your area. Plus you get to buy and maintain (10 months to pay or not) 150 pieces of Luxottica product

    So in a nutshell, Luxottica increases frame sales via provider requirements. Luxottica gets more "lives" on their plan with an offer to save them money on eyewear which translates to more money for Luxottica. Then the provider makes 20% LESS on all sales to Eyemed patients and has 150 pieces of Luxottica inventory (which he or she must pay for eventually and maintain to stay on the plan) I'm failing to see where the "benefit" to me is. I can see where the benefit to Luxottica is but I'm more intrested in Me and what's in it for Me. I like to be able to eat and keep the doors open and I just can't do that by being overstocked on inventory and making 20% LESS for it.

    So what did I miss? Was I asleep during Accounting 101 or what? I'm just curious, not to mention I ain't buyin' it. Taking LOSS never makes sense unless you can make it up on the front or the back end of the deal and you can't do that on this or any other plan. You LOSE 20%. I guess the positive to this is that you LOSE less on the Eyemed plan ;)

    Keep in mind I'm not telling you any of this on a mean spirited or yelling manner. I'm simply telling it like it is and emphasizing where I feel it's necessary.

    Take care,

    Darris C.

  13. #13
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    Darris,

    Eyemed or any insurance plan are not for everyone!

    I have said it before: Luxottica is doing this for Luxottica.

    If you have time in the day to see more patients and take no insurance them Eyemed or any other plan may not be for you!

    As far as accounting goes. If you see 10 customers a day and profit $100 each but have time to see 12. And you can see 2 more but only profit 50$ off each you still made $100 more. Insurance plans are another from of advertising.

    My point about the economy was: If YOUR business starts to slow you need to make the most out of every customer.(Second pairs ect.) If you can see more customer because of Eyemed you make more money! I understand you don't make as much as you would off private customers. But you make nothing if you don't see that customer! Half of nothing is nothing half of something is still something!

    As far as the frames go: Most people need to carry many more than 150 frames. We just ask that 150 are ours. Most people would agree that Luxottica makes a good product. They would not sell 30 million frames a year if they did not.


    Again: This is not for everyone! Each person needs to look at this plan and see if it makes sense for them. If you use V.S.P. or Davis it most likley will.

  14. #14
    Master OptiBoarder EyeManFla's Avatar
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    OK, Here we go again...........

    Rep, here is my question........

    Rural accounts don't need to buck up the frame requirements,BUT, who at Eyexottica determines who is a rural account?

    Case in point. There is a nice town 20 miles south of Sarasota,Florida call Venice. In this town, they have a Pearle Vision (run by very nice people, by the way). They sign on to Eye-med over a year and a half ago and get the required number of frames. Now, a few months down the road, a small little independent, let's call them oh...Venetian Optical...is contacted by Eyexottica and are told that as a "Rural" account they didn't have to meet the frame requirements to join Eyemed.

    Now, the Doctor who owns the place...nice guy, but a Florida State grad......buys into this and signs up. (Oh, did I mention that he was told by Eyexottica that he would have an 'exclusive' in his little 'rural' area of Venice?) Well, the day after he does that, his manager informed him the the Pearle Vision Center.......1/2 down the street.....has been doing Eye-med for SIX months.

    And it gets better.....three other Doctors in this 'rural' town called Venice were contacted with the same deal and promise of exclusivity! (and were they ticked off when they found out they didn't get much of a deal because Pearle beat them to the punch six months to a year earlier).

    No wonder Ken Clanton left Eyexottica and got a job at Cole!:p

  15. #15
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    As far as rural accouts go it is determined by population! Each rep has a list!

    As far a exclusives go! There is none. At this time any independent can join if credentialed!

    You can always go to WWW.EYEMEDVISIONCARE.COM to see who is on the plan in your area!

  16. #16
    Bad address email on file Darris Chambless's Avatar
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    Hello optirep,

    "Darris,

    Eyemed or any insurance plan are not for everyone!

    I have said it before: Luxottica is doing this for Luxottica.

    If you have time in the day to see more patients and take no insurance them Eyemed or any other plan may not be for you!

    As far as accounting goes. If you see 10 customers a day and profit $100 each but have time to see 12. And you can see 2 more but only profit 50$ off each you still made $100 more. Insurance plans are another from of advertising.

    My point about the economy was: If YOUR business starts to slow you need to make the most out of every customer.(Second pairs ect.) If you can see more customer because of Eyemed you make more money! I understand you don't make as much as you would off private customers. But you make nothing if you don't see that customer! Half of nothing is nothing half of something is still something!

    As far as the frames go: Most people need to carry many more than 150 frames. We just ask that 150 are ours. Most people would agree that Luxottica makes a good product. They would not sell 30 million frames a year if they did not.


    Again: This is not for everyone! Each person needs to look at this plan and see if it makes sense for them. If you use V.S.P. or Davis it most likley will."

    Didn't I just say all that? with the exception of "Eyemed isn't for everyone" that is. I basically said it isn't for anyone.

    "Half of nothing is nothing half of something is still something!" I use to work with a doctor and know two other doctors that had this same philosophy. Two are out of business now and the other cut out all insurrance plans except Medi Met and is doing fine now. As you yourself (and I as wel)l said you make more money on private pay patients so why start tying up chair time with those you would take in less money on? Eventually you'll end up with a practice that see predominantly insurrance or third party plan patients at which point you have to tighten the belt up. So my question is why would anyone want to get into a situation that could cause them to have to tighten the belt i.e. getting into ANY third party plan? As soon as you sign up for one of these "plans" you know you will make less money on each one you see. My brain just doesn't work that way and thus the reason why I can't understand it I guess.

    I used a sceanrio a long time ago, let's see if I remember it correctly since I've slept since then.

    Third parties are like a stranger that approaches you one day "Hi. You don't know me but I'm here to offer you more patients for less money. I don't have any vested intrest in your company nor do I share any of the liability in your company, but if you'll just sign here on the dotted line I can make sure that you're over worked, over extended and under paid. Thank you and have a nice day." The sad part is that people actually sign up for this stuff. I just don't get it.

    Oh well, I can't make everyone see the truth through the dog and pony show, but if I can get to just one person I've done my job.

    Take care,

    Darris C.

  17. #17
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    Pete,

    That is a good question. I don't know if I have the answer!
    My guess is - because you do the lab work you would treat them like a private pay. But I could be wrong.

    Do most labs credit you for redo lenses?


    And Darris,

    I don't expect to bring you to the dark side. But things are differnent from practice to practice. Many of the O.D.'s that I call on tell me that 80% of their business is 3 party and without Davis, V.S.P. and other they would be out of business. Many Opticians tell me that they want to get on these plans but can't.

    Every year there are fewer and fewer private pays across the country. 10 Years ago (I worked for a different company) I use to show up at my accounts and would get big orders even if they did not need a thing. Every Davis live is one less that will buy one of my frames. Same with many state plans.

    Each practice needs to look at every plan to see if it is good for them. I understand you think that no plan is good for anyone but at least 25,000 shops are on some kind of plan.

    We can go around this tree all day and I get dizzy fast!

    We are like SNL's "Point Counter Point" Remember that Bit.
    Just don't let me Your Dan and I'm Jane!

    I hate get all serious like this!


    Joke: What costs more a pound of Opticians brains or a pound of Reps brains?

    Awnser: A pound of Reps brains. Do you know how many reps you have to have to get a pound of brains.

    It's old I know - Just trying to lighted things up

  18. #18
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Originally posted by optirep
    And Darris,

    I don't expect to bring you to the dark side
    ROLFLMAO!! :D :bbg: :D

    [Sorry - this was just too funny!]


    OptiBoard Administrator
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    OptiBoard has been proudly serving the Eyecare Community since 1995.

  19. #19
    Master OptiBoarder Jeff Trail's Avatar
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    Oh my GOD..If I was trying to survive on 80% of my practice as 3rd party and Ins. ..give me the pistol now and point me in the direction where blood splatter will make the least mess :finger:

    That is a down right scary thing to even think about if you had a practice with a split like that..
    I think the highest OD I know is around 67% and I know he made less this year than he did 4 years ago (his words) Last I talked to him he was trying to sell out...
    I do know one other OD that has around 73% of his work as Ins. but he does not count he "ownes" the local health care contract under a captiated bid and he makes actually more by NOT seeing "lives" They start wiht a pool based on the number of people enrolled in the health care plan and than you cipher off the payment with the co-pay.. so the less he see's of them he actually has more profit at the end of the year....

    Hey maybe that would make Darris happy.. Eyemed says "ok you give them the job less 20%"... We cut you a check for that other 20% ...you get 100% of it and than you stock the Lux. frames... sort of a reverse discount..instead of 2% prompt payment we give you an additional 18% :bbg:

    Fly that one up the flag pole and see how long it takes to get "chopped" dowm..

    Jeff "grind em if ya can afford em" Trail

  20. #20
    Questions:

    1 Dont you usually give discounts to your private patients?
    10% or 20% when they buy a complete set of frames lenses coatings ?

    2 I am wondering how much does the company pays to give its employee vision insurance?
    Lets say eyemed which does not pay us opticians a penny and wants to give everybody discounts?
    And how much is the plan that they can get giorgio armany glasses from us?

  21. #21
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    Optic,

    I don't quite understand what you are saying!

    Eyemed does pay opticians. Each plan is different! It is not JUST a discount plan.

    The more a company pays for the plan the less the patient pays. Dispensers get the same pay if it comes from the patient or Eyemed.

    As far a GIORGIO ARMANI goes! They can get those on any plan! The they just pay more. When you sell them up to a more expensive frame you just make more money!

  22. #22
    Bad address email on file Darris Chambless's Avatar
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    Hello optirep,

    I'm not trying to be cruel only truthful. I understand marketing and I don't consider Eyemed to be "the darkside" (Steve nearly busted a gut on that one evidently. Something really funny might kill him, but I digress :)

    You actually pointed out the main problem as far as third party is concerned. 60% to 80% of an offices clients are third party. So the way to make money is to create another third party. That's great for those that own or work for third party but eventually (and unfortunately sooner than later) you run all the doctors out of business, hence the invention of the PA and nurse practitioners. They work for peanuts and are all the hospitals can afford due to lower reimbursement rates. It creates a really bad situation that no one realizes until it's too late. That's where my concern comes from.

    As I said I don't fault Luxottica for doing what their doing. It's smart business, but they better be prepared to bail when it collapses. Luxoticca won't be hurt by it but many others will which will in turn create a domino effect. Think of it this way application to medical school is less than 50%, application to Optometry school is less than 50% that's gonna leave a severe shortage of doctors to collect from in the near future. The moneys good now but the ramification will be somewhat extreme. It's all a vicious cycle that so many are walking blindly into. On the surface it looks good but people aren't reading the fine print and can't see the forest through the trees sometimes.

    So just to be repetitive I don't fault you nor do I fault your company. I'd do the same thing and make money when and where I could. The end result will be where the problems begin. At that point I thik there will be...No, let me rephrase that to "I know" there will be people sitting around scratching their heads saying "What just happened here?" when the walls start tumbling down. When all the clientele base is third party we might as well have national healthcare because that's basically what it is only private com0panies are making the money instead of the Government.

    Well, that's my doom and gloom for the day. Remember everyone, no "Why did the chicken cross the road?" jokes or Steve could burst a vein or rupture his spleen :)

    Darris "Now that's what I call funny :)" C.

  23. #23
    Master OptiBoarder EyeManFla's Avatar
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    Originally posted by optirep
    As far as rural accouts go it is determined by population! Each rep has a list!

    DUH ! OK, so I wasn't a business major at the University of Maryland, but I did study enough about demographics to know that the Sarasota-Venice-Port Charlotte area is hardly "rural". And you still dodged the basic premise of my question.

    As far a exclusives go! There is none. At this time any independent can join if credentialed!

    Granted. So that means that two of the Doctors I spoke to were either lied to by Eyemed or are liers themselves.

    You can always go to WWW.EYEMEDVISIONCARE.COM to see who is on the plan in your area!
    Been there, done that, so what?

    :hammer:

  24. #24
    sub specie aeternitas Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    As far as third party plan trends go, optirep is correct- there will only be more and more patients out there with optical insurance plans. Ironically, the reason for this is the same reason more and more private practices are joining buying groups- volume discounts!

    Part of living in the "information age" is that people have access to many many more providers of goods and services than in times past. The fact that you live in a small town doesn't mean you have to go to one little optical practice anymore. Chances are, there is a superstore or wholesaler somewhere near your town- and they're going to let you know they're there through the internet, the tv, the paper, the radio, or any of the other countless ways we've come up with to advertise.

    So, the consumer has gotten wiser. They want to get everything "at cost" because they are told that they can... Of course, this means it is harder and harder to justify "value added" expenses on things like frames and lenses and especially contacts!

    Third party is just part of the wholesale and "buying club" mentality that is taking over our country. It isn't insurance! After all, you don't buy insurance to get discounts on retail goods... What I'm saying is, if you don't like Sam's Club or WalMart and don't want to work at a place like that, don't worry... you won't have to go there to work, because they will come to you! We are all becoming Sam's Clubs and WalMarts as more and more "buying club" third party plans creep their way into our practices- some of us just don't realize it.

    Now the challenge is to make money off of people with this mentality! Good luck to us all!

    Pete

    PS- Of course, there will always be the exception that can carve a specialty business or practice if there are enough people in the area to make the niche...

  25. #25
    Bad address email on file Darris Chambless's Avatar
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    Hello Pete "Xeron, the battle axe wielding small to medium sized Viking"

    You are correct and rather blunt so let me be as blunt. Third parties will do one of two things either shut you down or assimilate your practice into larger corporations. You'll have to sell out to them or work for them. This may be good to some but it sure does limit your independence. It also dictates how much money you will make.

    As I said to optirep, I don't fault Luxottica nor do I think of them as "The darkside." They are smart business people, but they're not unlike strip miners. Take it while it's available and then let the shaft collapse under it's own weight. Strip miners get what they want out of it though. That's business.

    I'm not a "go along to get along" kind of guy when I can see what the end result will be. Sorry.

    Take care,

    Darris C.

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