When do you say no?

**Visionista** · 07-01-2008, 08:01 PM

On Saturday I had a patient's husband drop off her frame & a new rx from an outside OD, he simply stated that we would 'know what to do'. Well, naturally I looked up the patients account, seen that she had a warranty, & priced it out. I called her, after asking if anyone in our office knew what was going on, which they didn't, and called her letting her know the price to replace her lenses, $30.00. Today, she calls, screaming beligerantly at me, that unless I originally helped her, she wanted nothing to do with me. Well, just so happens, I helped her with her glasses. After explaining to her that she had the glasses made in November, and that over 6 months has passed, I can't just make the new lenses & eat the cost. This threw her over the edge. She starting going on & on that she told me in the beginning that they were incorrect, and that she would have to go back to her eye doctor, which would take a while. Well, in November I said that was fine, I'd remake the new script, if changed, within 60 days at no charge. Well, after screaming at me that wasn't the case, that she had said a while, (and in her mind, 8 months is a reasonable amount of time), she then accused me of changing the date she bought the glasses.... & claimed she had the reciepts, dated March. Well, I said if that was the case to bring them in.... she didn't want to waste the gas. I said I would pass the message to my office manager & have her return the call. That was unacceptable as well.... thankfully, she walked in & took the call then, but was greeted with the exact same thing I got. In the end, she said 'fix it' and hung up. ....anyone else run into these people??? How do you handle these situations? :hammer:

**For-Life** · 07-01-2008, 08:16 PM

If she was in the right, then why did she send in her husband? Clearly, she did it, because she wanted to avoid lying to you.

Best way to handle these people is to brush them off as nice as possible. They know they are in the wrong. They do not need to be told it. They just have to be pushed away, and let them stew in their own idioticness (w00t, made up a word).

**jeanne2020** · 07-01-2008, 08:23 PM

sorry hon, you are never gonna win..... suck it up, make her happy and hope she never comes back. you will never win an argument with a nut.

**Visionista** · 07-01-2008, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by jeanne2020

sorry hon, you are never gonna win..... suck it up, make her happy and hope she never comes back. you will never win an argument with a nut.

Eh, unfortunatly, I already know that.... I think that's part of optician 101. I suppose it still amazes me, the audacious requests that people make... err, demand.

**Fezz** · 07-01-2008, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Visionista

Today, she calls, screaming beligerantly at me, that unless I originally helped her, she wanted nothing to do with me. Well, just so happens, I helped her with her glasses.

End of "discussion".

I don't allow anyone to treat me, my family, staff, etc like that. If a patient raises their voice, I'll ask very nicely once to refrain from that. If the patient continues in such manner......end of story. I will hang up. I instruct my staff to hang up.

Life is too short!

Hang in there!!!!

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

**Against the Rule** · 07-01-2008, 09:04 PM

I agree with Fezz. Once someone crosses the line, all bets are off and they're no longer a patient or a customer. I don't get paid enough to genuflect to some would-be tyrant.

**bob_f_aboc** · 07-01-2008, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by jeanne2020

sorry hon, you are never gonna win..... suck it up, make her happy and hope she never comes back. you will never win an argument with a nut.

I consider myself quite a nut. I still have yet to win an argument.

Or does it go in degrees???:idea:

**Snitgirl** · 07-01-2008, 10:10 PM

Visionista,

Its an unfortunate situation you had to deal with and yes, there are people out there like this.

One thing you might want to consider is to have something "written" so that there is proof of the time frame you told her you would take care of it. Its people like this that makes us create such forms. Maybe at the bottom of your receipt it can state something??? Just as long as its something that you have a copy of and they have a copy of. Heck, have them initial it as well. lol

Basically you're just covering your butt when it comes to these kinds of people. They'll probably still give you heck when the time comes when they need a redo and you have this information that states its beyond the redo time, but.... you would have proof of it all vs. all the she said this and that.

What is the redo going to cost you?? You were going to have her pay 30 bucks. Heck, that is a nice bottle of wine.. Redo the glasses and if she is still a pain and completely ungrateful and you don't mind loosing her as a patient, give her the speech. Mrs. Jones, we're sorry we're not meeting your expectations. We don't want to loose you as our patient but we highly recommend you seek your eye care services elsewhere since we are not meeting your needs. blah, blah, blah.. <----I am sure you can word it better than that but you're basically telling her byebye in a kind way!

Hope that helps a bit...Cheers

**chip anderson** · 07-01-2008, 10:19 PM

Visionista: Don't know about Pa. But heah in de South, when to say no is the first thing a girl learns.

**Scott R** · 07-01-2008, 10:34 PM

I had the same type of "nut" in my shop a couple of weeks ago. He spent 2 hours picking out golf glasses (Drivewear lenses) for a golf tournement on the west coast. The lab had breakage so I offered to next day the specs to the west coast at my expence, he accepted. As it turns out he disputed the AMEX charge the same day I called him to tell him I would have to ship the specs to him.
He called me the day after the golf event screaming and curseing on the phone so I hung up on him. He called back a second later so I told him if he returns the specs I will give him a refund. He decided to give me a lesson in "good buisness" on the phone so I hung up on him a second time. His secretary called back and insisted that I send a messenger 40 blocks to pick up the specs. I told her I will deduct the cost of the messenger from the refund. She told me that's "unacceptable due to the inconvience that i caused her boss." I told her to mail the specs to us and I will issue the refund at the end of the week when the office manager is in because I dont have access to the credit card slips which are locked in his office.
AMEX refused to accept his dispute because the goods were delivered. His secratary made 2 round trips 40 blocks each way in a cab first to return the glasses second to bring the credit card so I could swipe the credit card refund. Probably took 2 hours and $50 in a cab in NYC traffic.

**ziggy** · 07-02-2008, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by Visionista

In the end, she said 'fix it' and hung up. ....anyone else run into these people??? How do you handle these situations? :hammer:

Do you work for a chain? In this situation I tend to start sinning Ray Charles...." Hit the road Jack, and dont you come back no mor, no mor, no mor, no mor"

**obxeyeguy** · 07-02-2008, 07:36 AM

sorry hon, you are never gonna win..... suck it up, make her happy and hope she never comes back. you will never win an argument with a nut.

If she's never going to come back, why suck it up?? Thirty bucks sounds very fair, take it or leave it. People like this will bad mouth you whether you give in or not. I'll live with that, and the money.

**Nettie** · 07-02-2008, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Fezz

End of "discussion".

I don't allow anyone to treat me, my family, staff, etc like that. If a patient raises their voice, I'll ask very nicely once to refrain from that. If the patient continues in such manner......end of story. I will hang up. I instruct my staff to hang up.

Life is too short!

Hang in there!!!!

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

Can I come work for you???

**KStraker** · 07-02-2008, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by jeanne2020

sorry hon, you are never gonna win..... suck it up, make her happy and hope she never comes back. you will never win an argument with a nut.

Tell her to beat it and make sure she never comes back.

**Uncle Fester** · 07-02-2008, 10:20 AM

I agree with snitgirl to be sure in the future to note on the record that the vision was not comfortable and that she was advised to come back within XX days if she didn't adjust.

I'd also let her walk and not re do them n/c unless this patient and her family have a long history of coming to you and this behavior is an aberration.

If she is new you may be the latest in a long series of optical shops "who can never get my glasses right".;) (How many shops are closer to her home?)

I must say it's the yelling (bullying) that would have me digging in my heels. Like mom always says, "You get more bees with honey not vinegar".

**wolfman** · 07-02-2008, 10:26 AM

You shouldn't have to take that kind of abuse period. Even if they were your best patient ever that doesn't give them the right to kick and scream like a two year old. I think the $30 would be fair just for the pain and suffering of having to listen to that. Besides, even if you do the redo at no charge it just reinforces the idea that kicking and screaming will get them what they want, and it will happen again.

Do you think we could start billing patients a pain and suffering fee when they are like that. :shiner:

**Ineed Chocolate** · 07-02-2008, 10:56 AM

"In the end, she said 'fix it' and hung up. ....anyone else run into these people??? How do you handle these situations?"

Try a bipolar cocktail of Prozac and Depakote. That works well with these patients
:drop:

**allanon** · 07-03-2008, 11:35 PM

You did your job. Me? I'd hang up if I owned the place.

**chip anderson** · 07-04-2008, 06:56 AM

I always say:

"I don't care what they call me, as long as it's me they call."

Chip

**kidsparrow** · 07-04-2008, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by wolfman

Besides, even if you do the redo at no charge it just reinforces the idea that kicking and screaming will get them what they want, and it will happen again.

Indeed! When my 3 year-old throws a tantrum, he doesn't get what he wants. How I wish I could apply this rule at work!

**edKENdance** · 07-04-2008, 06:55 PM

We say no all the time.

That's all I got. We're the experts. You can't really tell us what to do.

**bob_f_aboc** · 07-04-2008, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by edKENdance

We say no all the time.

That's all I got. We're the experts. You can't really tell us what to do.

In my case, its the doc that signs the paycheck that gets to tell the expert (me) what to do. I have been hung out to dry by bosses all in chain stores as well as private practice.

All I can do is stand behind what I believe and if someone above me chooses to override my descision, that is their business. I know that most patients/customers that get to this point will never set foot back in your office whether you tell them no or hand them everything they want on a silver platter. The few that do come back won't even look at me while they are in the office. So again, I don't let it bother me any longer than it takes to rant on here or vent to a collegue on the phone.

In the end, I try to be as knowledgable and helpful as possible, but as long as I'm still breathing and my family is taken care of, its just a job.

rant off

**bt5050** · 07-06-2008, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Snitgirl

Visionista,

Basically you're just covering your butt when it comes to these kinds of people.

I am a little confused about the "covering your butt - " -
It will not matter if you have your conversation tatooed on there forhead - it will not make a differance " - and personally - if i have one more form to fill out - i will shoot myself "

what it comes down to for us - is that we do not want these folks as pts - once they cross that line -
As long as we are totally in the right - ( no ?s asked ) - I would not remake 1 thing for her at this point. ANd i would make it very appearent that if she handled herself better - maybe she would get further - however since she decided to insult us - and scream - she is S-O-L- and that is it -

we did have this one nut that wanted us to take back the glasses - now we are not a big company - and can not offer those - return your glasses until you are happy - anyways - she really thought we all did that crazy stuff - anyways - in the end i did give her the $ back - ( minus our cost ) - BUT i did make it a POINT to THROW THE GLASSES directly in the trash can in front of her !!)--- YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN HER FACE ! I thought she was going to have a heart attack - since she paid almost 700 bucks for them - I just wanted to see the reaction - and it worked like a charm !!

We always go into issues thinking the pt is always right - but once things go to far south - I give it right back - (( with in professional conduct that is - ( no throwing punches yet LOL ) I just call it as i see it - and if they lye to me - i also call them on that also -

**Visionista** · 07-11-2008, 05:18 PM

So... yesterday the mad woman came in & picked up her new, free, lenses, and within the same sentence they were too strong, & too weak (sv by the way). after i explained to her that the perscription came in correctly from our lab, i was told that was impossible, because her doctor was perfect (...so why did i just make the rx over in the first place???) she plans on going back to him & then bringing the lenses back (which i made her aware that i would not eat the cost again) Then we had a tiff about ar coating, which she said we didn't put on her lenses. I pointed out the green ting on them & showed her a demo of with & without AR. To which she said I was a liar, because, according to her ar coat only comes in a purple tint. So... basically, I have no idea what I'm talking about & no matter what I do, I'm wrong. Love it. Hope she never comes back!