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Thread: Strong-arming by Luxotica

  1. #1
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Strong-arming by Luxotica

    When Luxotica became my competition, I pledged not to do business with them if at all possible. An O.D. I know cracked and joined EyeMed last year, and has seen 3 patients on the plan. I got a call from the local rep today and his exact words were, "Well, we bought ECPA (Eye Care Plan of America) last month, are you ready to give in yet ?" I told him that until they were the last frame company on earth, I had depleted my current stock of frames, and customers were asking for them by name, I still don't plan on buying from my competetion. He laughed and said, "I'll call back nex t month after we buy SOLA ". Question:
    (1) Are all the Luxotica reps this cocky ? (2) Has anyone joined Eyemed that would like to share their experiences (good and bad) ?

  2. #2
    Optical Curmudgeon EyeManFla's Avatar
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    Be careful when you do business with The Evil Empire! I do business with them and I am an Eyemed provider, but there is a trick to it.

    First, Luxottica is a company in trouble. No not $ wise, but the optical community as a whole. Nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to work for them. NONE of my reps have had any optical experiance at all. One of my reps can barely speak english, he go shipped here from Italy and had never sold a frame in his life. NEVER let your reps think for one minute that they are doing you a favor. Always be more agressive than they are, it will pay off in the end.

    Eyemed.....the dirty little secret about Eyemed is, you can make a whole lot of money....if you DON'T use Luxottica frames! Also, the corporate people at Eyemed have NO loyality at all to existing Eyemed providers. When I pecame a provider, I was the only one from Sarasota to Ft. Myers (the only other providers were Lenscrafters). We no sooner signed up when their corporate promoters were calling other ODs and independents in my area with the come on that they would be "exclusive" Eyemed providers. Of course, most of these people already knew we were providers! Eyemed also told them that they didn't have to get the 250 frame minimum from Luxottica. But guess what happened when they tried to get reimbursed by Eyemed (sorry, by you heven't met your frame minimum).

    Oh, and the Sola thing...they have been trying to buy Sola for 5 years...nothing new there. And quite frankly, they can have Sola.

    What you do is up to you. I have been able to work it with a minimum of fuss, but it may not be such a good deal for you....

    Be careful!

    :finger:

  3. #3
    OptiBoard Professional Ryan's Avatar
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    Confused

    Dr. Johns, I can't agree with you more about Lux/Eyemed. I am currently a provider for ECPA and am sitting on the fence about EYEMED. We do very little of Lux. product and am very leery about purchasing $7500 worth of frames. You are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Lux makes out like a bandit either way, 1. Independents purchasing all of those frames, or 2. if independents don't purchase all of those frames, the pt. can just go to LensCrafters. Either way, Lux. gets something out of it. I wish Lux. would buy Sola, that way they can lose some of their profit of the Eyemed plan. Sola will bring them down big time. I use Essilor more than I use Sola, and would never use Sola again if Lux. bought them. What are all the other ECPA providers doing about the change to ########, I mean EYEMED.:hammer: :hammer:

  4. #4
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    Ryan:

    I like Eyeman's idea of making $$ w/ the plan but not using the frames. However, you would still have to put in the frames to get started. We do that w/ other plans, but those plans supply the frames. (We have a second dispensary in our broom closet where we "display" our 3rd party frames. They look great next to the Hoover and the dust mop)

    Another way we've been servicing Eyemed customers is by running an ad in the local paper targeting Eyemed subscribers. We offer an additional discount on top of their new fee schedule, which isn't too bad, and we just charge them that and use all our own frames and stock. Some people have even commented that they got a better deal than when they went to the guy down the street that has all the plan frames. By carrying all the frames from the "evil empire" (thanks eyeman!), the competition can't afford to give anymore of a discount because all of his $$ is already in Italy (Lux), or Cincinnatti, Oh.

  5. #5
    Optical Curmudgeon EyeManFla's Avatar
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    Corporate Pearle (OK, read that Cole National - the slightly less than evil empire) came up with a good one.
    When Eyemed took over the eyecare for Federal retirees, Pearle?Cole sent out letters to all it's patients that Pearle would still honor it's discounts.........
    Great for the patients, bad for the Doctors! Ya see-Eyemed pays alot better than Cole!


    Oh, on that 250 initial frame purchase....ya know you can get 12 month split billing! But don't go the consignment route...straight 12 month billing.....but don't replace the frames (do you really think anyone keeps 250 peices of Luxottica in their store?!)

  6. #6
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    O.K. I am a Luxottica rep!!! 8 Years

    First Eyemed deal right now for none ECPA accounts is 150 Frames 10 month dating and 10 Free frames. But that could end this week!

    Second since Luxottica has bought Lenscrafers I think they have done many good things.
    1. Before they bought LC Eyemed had already started. But it was going to be between LC and a select group of MD'S Only! Luxottica got out of that deal!
    2. They closed all the low end LC (I think they were in Kmart or something like that)
    3. No more 50% off at LC! They do $99 sales but anyone can do that!
    4. They have bought out many other chain stores and closed a good deal of them down.

    When they bought Ray-Ban and Revo they stopped the deep discount to warehouse stores. This made it possible for the independent to compete again with price.

    I'm not trying to say that Luxottica did all this because they wanted to help you! They want to sell more frames. Since they bought LC they have gone from about 19 million frame to 30. And LC only sells about 5 all together (I Think)

    Eyemed makes all its money from frame sales not from selling the plan like many other 3 party plans. That is why they have gone form 2 million lives to 30 million lives in less than 3 years.

    As far as competition goes Luxottica does business with competition every day. Charmont sells Lux frames in Japan. They buy from many companies like Modo for Lenscrafters. Why do they do this? Because it helps them make more profit.

    If Eyemed can help you make more profit for doing business with Luxottica it might be for you! You should look at this and see if it is right for you!

    If I can help answer and questions let me know!

    This is just my bias opinion! I don't want to get anyone mad!

    Just here to Help!



    :bbg:

  7. #7
    :shiner:
    ye, ye, ye
    $99 complete for a Genny frame with single vision lenses tint and uv !!!!
    Ye, ye , ye
    I would never sell it in my life
    especialy if the frame cost me 30-40 bucks

    BTW for eyemed i saw people getting $3-4 frames made in china and discontinued 3 years ago

  8. #8
    Optical Curmudgeon EyeManFla's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by optirep

    .

    If Eyemed can help you make more profit for doing business with Luxottica it might be for you! You should look at this and see if it is right for you!




    First, I commend you for putting up with Luxottica for as long as you have!

    And you are right. Bottom line, if it makes you money, you got to take a look at it.

  9. #9
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    Eyeman

    Thank you (I Think) I don't sweat much for a fat guy either!

    Eyemed is making me more money! (In a different way) So I will stick with Lux until further notice!

  10. #10
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    Optirep:

    You're absolutely right...anyone can have a $99- sale. Anyone one can also undercut their competition , everytime, if they own the factory. Don't tell us they don't do it. The local LC manager told me that he has the authority to go as low as he has to on frame price to make his units-per-store quota. He was told to not let any sale walk., even if he had to give the frames away.

    Everytime the rep comes in he tells me how much Luxotica is doing for my business. He only recently stopped trying to convince me that LC & Lux were not the same company (He'd say, "Well..uh..sure...they're kind of owned by the same people, but uh...they really don't get a better deal on frames than you do. You know... if you buy through a buying group, your getting them as cheap as they sell them to themselves ???!!!&??) Now all he talks about is how he's surprised I'm still in business because I'm not on Eyemed. The last time he stopped in. I told him I was too busy w/ real customers to talk to hime about how many "lives" he could offer.

    You guys should stick to trying to BS the select group of M.D.'s you mentioned.

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder Jeff Trail's Avatar
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    optirep,

    You would have been a lot better off if you would have just posted the first paragraph and the last.. a lot of the stuff inbetween you were incorrect about...


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Second since Luxottica has bought Lenscrafers I think they have done many good things.
    1. Before they bought LC Eyemed had already started. But it was going to be between LC and a select group of MD'S Only! Luxottica got out of that deal!
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I know some pretty high up people in both the LC chain and Lux. and the one from Lux. I know, which would probably be your bosses boss or maybe a higher up in the chain, (VP of something or another regional director) I forget his exact title but will get it if you like, needless to say he did not agree with your #1 answer or #2.. and #3 was somewhat partially correct but it is based more on district structure and regional basis (some big winded thing like that.. he went on for about five minutes :-) ....#4 is kind of right (his words)


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    2. They closed all the low end LC (I think they were in Kmart or something like that)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Nope not the according to my information


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    3. No more 50% off at LC! They do $99 sales but anyone can do that!
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Again, nope not according to my information, the one structured thing I know he mentioned was the add on's (scratch etc. etc.) and spiffs




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    4. They have bought out many other chain stores and closed a good deal of them down. -
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Somewhat true, but the number I was given wouldn't constitute "many", as I think you might be trying to convey.




    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    When they bought Ray-Ban and Revo they stopped the deep discount to warehouse stores. This made it possible for the independent to compete again with price.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Again this is not the information I got, the main thing behind it (simplified from the big long explanation I got was) Alot of it was generated from when Wal-Mart started pushing out the two comapnies that were leasing from them in places like "Sam's" and the like, I'm not saying the two names since most of us probably all ready know :-) ... but it was the Wal-Mart side that was the guys who more or less shut it down NOT Lux.




    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm not trying to say that Luxottica did all this because they wanted to help you! They want to sell more frames. Since they bought LC they have gone from about 19 million frame to 30. And LC only sells about 5 all together (I Think)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I don't know about this part but I can get the exact numbers probably if anyone is interested.. I just was not interested enough to try and dig it up and ask about it.



    If I were you I would have just posted the first and probably the last paragraph.. more or less if you think you can make money at it, do it, if not than don't... but save the sales pitch on how "great lux. is and all the things they did for independants" As a wholesaler (lens) I talked to a wide range of OD's and OMD's and ind. Opticians and a post like yours just rubs salt in the wound. Might as well face it, what Lux. did may make great business sense BUT it sure insulted a lot of people who felt they were stabbed in the back. I'm sure if you are honest than you would probably agree on that point I'm sure you probably lost a few customers or heard a lot of gripes ... Of course you won't probably post that though :-)


    Jeff "sometimes beating the comapny tom-tom's can really rub in the pain" Trail

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    America for sale or else!

    So, this guy from England (Martin Franklin ostensibly an American whos roots and Daddy are from UK and Lisbon. Don't tell me theey are any different than any other "industrialist", as he calls himself.) appears on the scene in the mid nineties . . . buys up a bunch of good American companies, raids them, kills them off, makes a ton of money, and then dissapears, leaving disaster in the wake. He also went into the insurance business by dissmantling Superior Optical, but building on its tremendous third party program. Optical Radiation, another, Omega, and Benson.

    The French (optical industry) lands on US soil (again), buys up a bunch of labs and starts taking control of US wholesale optical dollars. . . Essilor. The supreme burn...they bought from Martin Franklin!

    Lenscrafters (who was hated buy Americans in the optical business at the beginning for innovative merchandising and less than traditional optics), grows and then gets bought buy Italians who use it as an outlet for their product. Then they jump into insurance and what not.

    There's probably more to the story with a bit more research. But, the American Optical industry is for the most part dessimated. Word on the street is that Sola could be bought by Lux? Another example.

    The American flag went half mast on the optical industry 10 years ago. So, while we put lots of bucks in the hands of one Bin Laden family for oil and stuff, they are using the worlds money (and mostly from us) to take us over for the first time in our history, with anger.

    So, regardless of the issues of doing business as usual . . . I'm getting really really p - - - -d! Now . . . I am officially blackballed as far as ever getting a job with these people, because I am speaking out and, while not against them, certainly not for them. And, I know a bunch of Americans still work for them, so in effect, I am speaking out against the security many of my fellow Americans now have, which I know you know I have no desire to do. From my heart of hearts, if I could, I'd see that these people have jobs so they could eat and take care of their families.... and then I'd kick some of these companies the h - - l out of our physical borders if not financial ones. There was a time when speaking out was not playing cricket. Anti-business. The issues are so convoluted right now, our identity as Americans in the optical business is severly in question. Come to think of it...our identity in any industry is questionable. And, to think of it...Ben Franklin (God, I hope not related to Martin!), designed the first bifocal. It's all his fault. I'm not trying to host a pitty party here. But, when are we going to say to some of these entities.....get lost...take a slow boat to China.

    Go ahead, beat me up, tell me I'm all wet!

  13. #13
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    O.K.

    I can see we are going to keep running around this tree all day!

    If anyone has Eyemed questions I can TRY to help.

    I should have known better!:hammer:

  14. #14
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    2. They closed all the low end LC (I think they were in Kmart or something like that)
    Optirep is correct. They owned a chain of discount stores in Sam's Clubs, or another similar outfit, called Sight and Save. Those stores were closed down.
    3. No more 50% off at LC! They do $99 sales but anyone can do that!
    Those 50% off sales haven't happened for at least 7 or 8 years. They brought in market share but wore down associates working there and cost big bucks in extra lab supplies needed to keep up with the increase.
    4. They have bought out many other chain stores and closed a good deal of them down.
    At one point it sure did seem like they bought out many chains. Remember, they once owned stores in the US, Canada, Puerto Rico and the UK. From what I understand, perhaps John or one of our other UK members can verify this, the UK chain wasn't working out so they allowed local opticians at those stores to buy them from LC.
    As far as competition goes Luxottica does business with competition every day. Charmont sells Lux frames in Japan. They buy from many companies like Modo for Lenscrafters. Why do they do this? Because it helps them make more profit
    With the exception of Marchon and Sailo - correct.
    I'm not trying to say that Luxottica did all this because they wanted to help you! They want to sell more frames. Since they bought LC they have gone from about 19 million frame to 30. And LC only sells about 5 all together (I Think)
    I think it may be 1 or 2 more than 5 but Optirep is correct it is not too many. LC also faces the same clip-on back order situations as the rest of the industry. Private shops have a better and more frequently updated Lux frame selection than LC stores with the exception a few LC's in the big cities.

    Now, back to the subject of this thread.

    Dr. Johns,
    We just started with EyeMed last week because we did alot of ECPA. So far, we had 4 ECPA memebers come in so it is looking like we will be dealing with EyeMed quite a bit. We own two stores, one near a city and one in a rural setting. Only the store close to the city was required to purchase Lux frames. A good thing because the rural store can't afford to tie up alot of money in any more frames. Most of us are trying to be positive about EyeMed. Looking at the plan and how EyeMed handles frame coverage, we are hoping it will leave us with more profit than VSP and other big plans. VSP can be a killer if folks buy mid priced frames. With EyeMed, you don't get killed if someone buys a non-Lux mid priced frame. It is too early to see how EyeMed handles re-imbursements so I can't comment on that yet. My only complaint - the Emporio and Lux reps were supposed to come out and set up our Lux sections. They have been out to make sure everything was going smoothly concerning getting our product in but they haven't done anything as far as displays or our frame board yet. This does leave me wondering about any future customer service issues and how promptly they will be handled but that is an issue with Lux and not so much EyeMed.

  15. #15
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    I'd like to ask everyone to please tone down the rhetoric and stick to facts. Let's be professional in our discussions and avoid unnecessarily flammatory remarks, ok?

    Thanks!


    OptiBoard Administrator
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    OptiBoard has been proudly serving the Eyecare Community since 1995.

  16. #16
    Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox optirep's Avatar
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    Jo,

    If your reps have not come in yet I would just give them a call and let them know your concerns!

    I can't speak for all of our reps but I try to get back to my customers as soon as possible.

  17. #17
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    Thanks Optirep! One question for you. It seems the Lux rep is waiting for the Emporio rep to come in. They have said that they will set up some nice displays. Any chance of a written sneak preview on the Armani display?

  18. #18
    Master OptiBoarder LaurieC's Avatar
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    In Support of Luxottica

    Every few months, a similiar thread to this one starts up. While I have no doubt that there have been some less than positive experiences out there, I equally have no doubt that there's not a frame company out there with a 100% positive customer rating. Luxottica has become the Microsoft/Bill Gates of the Optical Industry. I don't have a problem with Bill Gates being the richest guy in the world because..hey somebody has to be. I don't have a problem with Luxottica being the giant it is, somebody was bound to do it. I wish it had been an American company but is it their fault it wasn't? So once again we talk about Luxottica becoming the competition. Actually, it's the other way around, the competition (LC) became Luxottica. At the time of the aquisition, LensCrafters was actually larger than Luxottica in sales and assets. I really admire the savvy it took to buy it. I was concerned at the time that the tail would wag the dog but I can't say I've ever seen that happen. I have had the opportunity to meet and negotiate with Claudio Del Vecchio and Guiseppe Servidori on a number of occassions. They are not Darth Vador and Jaba the Hut. Leonardo Del Vecchio is not the Evil Emperor and Gene Stevens is not Bobo Fet.
    And Alan W......I love you and enjoy a good disagreement with you....but come on! Luxottica and Bin Laden in the same post as if it's somehow related? Isn't this a bit carried away? You and I both worked for LC for a fair amount of time. And we both were not very happy with certain directions in the company when we left. But Luxottica didn't own them then and we've had numerous conversations about how much we learned while there. I consider the 7 1/2 years I spent with the company to have been overall a very positive growth time in my career. And yes I can name (but won't) negatives as well as positives about LC, but Luxottica is not the Evil Empire.
    I would like to say that both when I was the President of a top 50 chain as well as in a variety of occassions as a consultant I have never had anything but the most positive of feeling about the company and faith in their integrity. Furthermore, until 9 months ago, my daughter was a Chanel Rep, first in California then in New England. She left for personal reasons. She had extremely positive feelings about Luxottica and their leadership and ethics. My daughter is an honest, ethical person. She would not have worked for a company that did business in a shady way as a matter of course. She and I used to talk at length about Luxottica's exceptional rep training program, I don't recall there being tactical training on strong arming!
    I don't want to negate anyone's feelings but I do recommend that if you have a problem with the representation you're receiving, you follow the appropriate channels to correct it. In the past, when I had a problem with a line rep in Luxottica, I found the company very responsive to my issues.

  19. #19
    Optical Curmudgeon EyeManFla's Avatar
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    There are two really positive things about Eyemed that have worked for us.

    First, it pays my Doctor a whole lot better than Cole...and we take every chance we get ti point that out to them.

    And second, with on-line billing, we get payment in less than 10 days!

    Pete, I'm glad you have a few good reps. All of our original reps have quit and the ones I have now don't know a temple from a nose pad!

  20. #20
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Regarding my post

    I didn't equate Luxottica to Bin Laden, Laurie C. You might want to reread what I said and understand clearly that I am NOT associating the two. However, your experience as President of a retailer has little to do with the management behavior of the supply side of the American optical community. I cited a series of patterns which were indicative of the aggressivenes of foreign businesses towards American AND the lack of effort the management of the majority of American manufacturers have made to counter it either in the marketplace or other. I can understand that you are positioned in such a way that business interests need to be protected. I refer to some classic booboos made by Americans in the manufacturing and wholesale side of the industry. You should know better....you are degreed in business and even if you haven't spent a lot of time in the supply side of American optical, it wouldn't take much to identify lack luster design efforts (Martin Copeland was the most aggressive for a long time in design but poor in marketing and when I say marketing I am NOT saying sales) , lack luster innovation in manufacturing technology (until the eleventh hour we held back on supporting creativity from the mold / model maker to the ad photographer) , lack luster in using modern management techniques with the people who worked with these companies, but fast on the "yes" answer when off shore investors wanted to buy them out. We made our own bed and now we are lying in it. And, when I said what I did about saying "sorry, but no" to foreign take overs, I meant we should have done better to prevent it. I am sorry if you think I am attacking foreign interests. For 35 years I have seen our solid companies make a lot of mistakes. You weren't around for that . . . I was and so were a lot of those who saw the Universal Opticals, the Martin Copelands, Styl Rites, so on and so forth bite the dust. Brush up on the American optical industry history first before confronting me. Then you'll understand what I am saying. We presented a protracted weakness and outsiders found it. But, we need to say, as our country is now saying in many ways . . . "That's enough. No more." We need to accelerate our learning curve and regain our viability . . . real quick. It hurts me deeply to think that I have seen so many American companies fall by the wayside that did the same thing as European companies. This industry has never been in the forefront of management excellence. We're paying for it. It's gotta stop.

  21. #21
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Thanks for the information on you experience w/ Eyemed. However, you must be a pretty good negotiator. I was told that Lux could make no exceptions to their policy that every store had to carry the 150 frames. One of our stores is a high-end boutique, and we only dsiplay 165 frames. Since we advertise all our stores in regional publications, having some stores on the plan, and some not on, is not an option.

  22. #22
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    I know our doctor is one tough negotiator. He had called his bank's customer service department over a billing issue on a loan. After getting no where fast, he asked to speak to her supervisor. She told him there was no supervisor and that tore it. He knew that it was against policy for her to hang up on a customer so he kept her on the phone for just over an hour. Eventually, she gave in and apparently a supervisor must have been promoted on the spot. Result - there was a bank error that was immediately corrected.

    Perhaps Optirep could give us some info on minimum frame purchases required by EyeMed.

  23. #23
    Master OptiBoarder LaurieC's Avatar
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    Angry I've tried one too many time to be a lady with you, and now I"ve failed

    "I didn't equate Luxottica to Bin Laden, Laurie C. You might want to reread what I said and understand clearly that I am NOT associating the two.”

    Alan, please explain why it’s in the same post. I didn’t say you equated, I said placing it in the same post would infer that it somehow related! If there is a rational to this, I would love to hear it, will sincerely apologize, but otherwise shouldn’t the Bin Laden portion be in “Just Conversation?” Why is it in a post about Luxottica if you’re not trying to make a correlation?

    “However, your experience as President of a retailer has little to do with the management behavior of the supply side of the American optical community.”

    I make reference to my tenure as president of a Retailer in that’s where I have had the most direct relationships with the company in question. So that’s what would be pertinent here. How dare you, when you know better, imply I have no insight into the behavior of the supply side of the community? I have never attempted to use OptiBoard, and will not now, as a marketing vehicle for my company. But YOU know who my clients are, you know exactly what my credentials are, and you need remember……I KNOW YOURS.

    “I can understand that you are positioned in such a way that business interests need to be protected.”

    I’m positioned in such a way? Alan, you wouldn’t know positioning if it bit you in the a..! I am not now, have never been and do not expect to be under a compensation program of any sort with Luxottica. But I am with 3 of their direct competitors, so I say what I think to be true, in spite of that.

    “You should know better....you are degreed in business and even if you haven't spent a lot of time in the supply side of American optical”

    I haven’t???? Alan, you have direct knowledge that I wrote Strategic Business Plans for three supply side corporations this year alone! Oh, that’s right, they weren’t “American” companies. Only companies doing business in America with headquarters here. Find me the American companies and I’ll do business with them too! When will you quit attacking the hand(s) you ask to feed you.

    “(and when I say marketing I am NOT saying sales)”

    Thank you for clarifying the difference……degreed though I am, I’m easily confused. And further speaking of my credentials that according to you mean nothing, let’s match up our certifications as opticians, since in the past you've implyed I'm not one of those either!

    We made our own bed and now we are lying in it. "

    Maybe, the only thing I can agree with here. But, wake up and smell the coffee. The marketplace has become global.

    “And, when I said what I did about saying "sorry, but no" to foreign take overs,”

    No, that’s not what you said…you invited me to reread….you reread it.

    "For 35 years I have seen our solid companies make a lot of mistakes. You weren't around for that. Brush up on the American optical industry history first before confronting me."

    I’ve been around for a lot more than you are implying here and for a heck of a lot of yours! I didn’t confront you other than to really question why Binny was in the same post as Luxottica and wonder why you would think that necessary and appropriate. But I’m questioning you now. ALAN…. When, if ever, have you had direct dealings with Luxottica? My last direct dealings were 9/27/01. The next time you want to knowingly minimize and falsefy my credentials, put yours on the table.

    “Then you'll understand what I am saying.”

    Ya? I hope you understand what I’m saying.!

    “America for sale or else!”

    This is your quote, you don’t find it out of line and trying to imply a threat? Oh, and everyone should read this particular thread reply again and know that the same Essilor you disparage, you told me you were trying to get a job with! I guess you’re the only one who wants to eat so exceptions should be made for you!
    -
    "Go ahead, beat me up, tell me I'm all wet!"

    Okay, you asked for it, feel like Gary Hart yet? You are all wet. And to close, I really want to apologize to Darris, who didn’t like that I complained about a thread where the two of you were not speaking to each other in what I considered a professional or gentlemanly fashion. My comments were targeted to you not him. And you want a piece of me, have at it. You want to say I have a lot to learn..... you do. Start studying Cause, effect and consequences. I don't like that I felt compelled to do this, but you know you can disagree with me without pretending I know nothing and you know everything. So now I'm sure I have become the subject of your favorite form of gorrilla warfare.....half of OptiBoard will receive emails saying nasty things about me. My hope is they will consider the source.

    That said, this wasn't supposed to be about our differences, THE THREAD IS ABOUT LUXOTTICA, and I will reiterate.... my personal professional experiences are overall positive.
    Last edited by LaurieC; 10-01-2001 at 09:47 AM.

  24. #24
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Since this thread has gotten a bit off track, I'm going to close it. Apologies to all, and please don't hesitate to start a new thread on this subject. Maybe we can keep it on topic the next time.


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