Finishing lab help and advice... please :)

**kpshann** · 06-18-2008, 03:03 PM

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post, so please forgive me it I place it in the wrong place!

I need advice please. I am a certified optician who trains other people in a classroom environment. My experience is ALL classroom. I have a few wonderful people in the optics world who help me, that is how I was turned onto this board.

My program is starting a finishing lab. I have had a bit of experience, but I am not an expert on the equipment. I am wanting to know what you all think would be the best purchases for my lab. In the begining the jobs will be few, but over the next year we will be given more work and the work load will increase for the students.

I have been looking at a Santinelli 9000 or the 7070 for my patternless edger. They come in a package with a blocker and a groover (in the case of the 7070). I have been given mixed reviews and as I stated I am not an expert.

Can you all please make suggestions? I will not need lensometers, as I have 12 already and I already have a hand stone. So I am trying to get the basic finishing lab equipment.

Your assistance and kindness is greatly apperciated! I hope you all have a nice day :)

Kpshann

**Fezz** · 06-18-2008, 03:29 PM

Contact a fellow Optibrder=OpticLabRat.

His company, Vision Systems, has what you need. Leo is a respected member and proud sponsor of Optiboard!

**kpshann** · 06-18-2008, 03:35 PM

Thanks Fezz!

He is actually the person I have talked to about the 7070 and 9000. It is good to hear he is super respected! Have you ever used the Santinelli?

**obxeyeguy** · 06-18-2008, 03:36 PM

Contact member opticlabrat (Leo), and he will hook you up with equipment, and train you how to use it.

www.patternless.com
866-934-1030

I need advice please. I am a certified optician who trains other people in a classroom environment. My experience is ALL classroom.

I'm a tad confused by this statement. Your an optician, with no actual retail experience?

Welcome, by the way.:cheers:

**obxeyeguy** · 06-18-2008, 03:37 PM

Beat by Fezz again, had to answer the phone.:cheers:

**optical24/7** · 06-18-2008, 03:47 PM

Leo's THE man!!!

:cheers:

**kpshann** · 06-18-2008, 03:51 PM

I am confused as well! Here is how it goes. I teach in a prison. When I started 6 years ago I had no optical experience and all they wanted me to teach the ladies here was eye anatomy and business skills. I realized that this would not help them to obtain a living wage career.

I was told about the ABO and did alot of research. I worked with local opticians, ODs, OMTs and lab folks. I spent years teaching myself, working with these other great people and creating an extensive year long curriculum for my students. My goal is to assist them so they can pass the ABO (In Oregon you are not required to be certified, which is horrible). With all of the educational experience and knowledge they can transition into the field and gain their hands on experience. We do place orders, fit, measure and such to the clients here when they place orders. In addition I have tons of hands on activities and we recycle over 8000 pairs of eyeglasses a month, so they are extremely proficient on manual lensometers.

The finishing lab is going to provide them with a tremendous amount of experience! I am really excited because I want to help them be the best that they can.

I know it is not your typical optical experience and some people might disagree that I am all book based, but I do the best I can for my students. I have found that the optical community is really supportive and helpful when I get stuck!

As I stated before, I am happy to see that Leo is getting great reviews since that is who I will most likely get my equipment from.

**HarryChiling** · 06-18-2008, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by kpshann

I am confused as well! Here is how it goes. I teach in a prison. When I started 6 years ago I had no optical experience and all they wanted me to teach the ladies here was eye anatomy and business skills. I realized that this would not help them to obtain a living wage career.

I was told about the ABO and did alot of research. I worked with local opticians, ODs, OMTs and lab folks. I spent years teaching myself, working with these other great people and creating an extensive year long curriculum for my students. My goal is to assist them so they can pass the ABO (In Oregon you are not required to be certified, which is horrible). With all of the educational experience and knowledge they can transition into the field and gain their hands on experience. We do place orders, fit, measure and such to the clients here when they place orders. In addition I have tons of hands on activities and we recycle over 8000 pairs of eyeglasses a month, so they are extremely proficient on manual lensometers.

The finishing lab is going to provide them with a tremendous amount of experience! I am really excited because I want to help them be the best that they can.

I know it is not your typical optical experience and some people might disagree that I am all book based, but I do the best I can for my students. I have found that the optical community is really supportive and helpful when I get stuck!

As I stated before, I am happy to see that Leo is getting great reviews since that is who I will most likely get my equipment from.

Teach them as much book as you can, they won't get that in the field.

**DragonLensmanWV** · 06-18-2008, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by kpshann

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post, so please forgive me it I place it in the wrong place!

I need advice please. I am a certified optician who trains other people in a classroom environment. My experience is ALL classroom. I have a few wonderful people in the optics world who help me, that is how I was turned onto this board.

My program is starting a finishing lab. I have had a bit of experience, but I am not an expert on the equipment. I am wanting to know what you all think would be the best purchases for my lab. In the begining the jobs will be few, but over the next year we will be given more work and the work load will increase for the students.

I have been looking at a Santinelli 9000 or the 7070 for my patternless edger. They come in a package with a blocker and a groover (in the case of the 7070). I have been given mixed reviews and as I stated I am not an expert.

Can you all please make suggestions? I will not need lensometers, as I have 12 already and I already have a hand stone. So I am trying to get the basic finishing lab equipment.

Your assistance and kindness is greatly apperciated! I hope you all have a nice day :)

Kpshann

It depends a bit as to which of those machines you should get. If you do or plan to do any grooved rimless, but all means get the 9000. If you do or plan not to do grooved rimless, then the 7070 is the perfect machine for you. As you can tell, the 7070 does not groove and the 9000 does a good job of grooving right in the machine.
Do you have a layout marker?

**kpshann** · 06-18-2008, 04:31 PM

Hi,

Thank you so much for your advice! To be honest, I have not decided if we will do rimless. Our population can be very hard on glasses, so I am unsure if rimless would be good. Although I feel it would benefit my ladies to learn how to make and repair them. What is your opinion?

For the 7070, the package comes with a Nidek ce-1 lens blocker and a Acutech AG 2000 lens groover.

The 9000 package does not have the groover and I cannot remember the blocker it comes with.

Do you like the Santinelli? It seems that people either love it or hate it. I had someone suggest the Horizon III, they said that the Santinelli is not capable of small B sizes.

Advice?

**HarryChiling** · 06-18-2008, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by kpshann

Hi,

Thank you so much for your advice! To be honest, I have not decided if we will do rimless. Our population can be very hard on glasses, so I am unsure if rimless would be good. Although I feel it would benefit my ladies to learn how to make and repair them. What is your opinion?

For the 7070, the package comes with a Nidek ce-1 lens blocker and a Acutech AG 2000 lens groover.

The 9000 package does not have the groover and I cannot remember the blocker it comes with.

Do you like the Santinelli? It seems that people either love it or hate it. I had someone suggest the Horizon III, they said that the Santinelli is not capable of small B sizes.

Advice?

Go with the 7070, IMO the people you train will need to learn the more difficult way of doing things, should they happen to go to an office that has a 9000 then they can press the button for the groove with no worry's but the other way around and they're stuck trying to figure out how to work the groover.:hammer:

**Against the Rule** · 06-18-2008, 06:18 PM

Kpshann, everyone's used a Santinelli so I'd second Harry's opinion not only because one should learn how to use a groover but because the Santinelli's are sort of "standard" (at least in my experience).
This thread makes me wonder (and maybe it should be its own thread) who among us would hire a really skilled optician who did prison time for say, theft. Or worse.
Most of us here probably believe in second chances, but who among us wants to be the one to take the risk and provide it? Can these ex-cons be hired cheaper as some sort of rehab program until they prove themselves trustworthy to their employer?

**chip anderson** · 06-18-2008, 06:50 PM

KPShann:
You can train democrats?

**Against the Rule** · 06-18-2008, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by chip anderson

KPShann:
You can train democrats?

Sure, look at the perfectly-timed chanting and head-bowing at an Obama sermon--er, I mean rally.

**FVCCHRIS** · 06-18-2008, 07:19 PM

I knew our "Chip" would come in! :shiner:

**Crazy-bout-Optics** · 06-18-2008, 08:04 PM

I do not have any useful information pertaining to the question she asked the board.

I am posting though because I wonder why people post political remarks that have absolutely nothing to do with the question she asked. Do you have nothing better to do with your time?

Chip we get it. Your a proud Confederate flag waiving, conservative, Southern Republican who likes to write in "Southern" talk to mock an entire ethnic group. We get it. We really do. If you have nothing of use to say, why do you bother to make such ignorant political comments. You may not agree with what she is doing and whom she is teaching. I guess you think these women in jail must be democrats and decided to make a smart comment.

My mom used to tell me if I had nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. Didn't your mom raise you right Chip?

And WHY for the life of me, do people chime in and fuel the fire (Against the Rule)

Why do more people not call these wonderfully insightful people out on their obviously ignorant comments?

Kpshann good luck in your endeavors, and I applaud you trying to help out women better themselves, regardless of their current situation.

**Against the Rule** · 06-18-2008, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Crazy-bout-Optics

I do not have any useful information pertaining to the question she asked the board.

Neither did I, that's why I added a glib comment. This isn't a peer-reviewed journal as far as I know, and I've seen no rules stating that every comment has to be apropos. If we go a bit off-topic I'm pretty sure no patients will be blinded as a result.
I'm a southerner, by the way, and I don't think you can call Chip's satirical language "racist" unless you've grown up around southern whites as well as southern African-Americans. We have a way of mocking certain speech patterns and there's no racism intended.
I fly the Stars and Bars on my porch up here in Yankee land and no one's complained thus far, so maybe it is indeed possible that we can all just get along.

**Leo Hadley Jr** · 06-18-2008, 09:37 PM

I too recommended the 7070 with groover.
Mainly for the extended warranty and the fact she is training people in the lab. I really believe the trainees would be way better off learning to groove and safety bevel. And its about $4500 less expensive.
We will also come out to set it up and train....."if they let us bring tools";)

As far as the B dimension, I think someone mixed up the information. The Horizon III will definately not do the small "Bs". Our Santinellis will do them.

As an old lab guy, I recommend the Santinellis. We also have Briot, Essilor, Gerber, and Optronics to choose from.

Thank You everyone!!!

**Crazy-bout-Optics** · 06-18-2008, 09:43 PM

You are right, this is not a peer review journal. If it was, I am sure there would be MANY posts that would have been taken down. I am just tired of racism, cheap shots and failed attempt at political humor that shows up on the "General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum" as I find they do not pertain to General Optics, nor Eyecare.

So you don't think mocking "Southern' talk has racist undertones? I'm sure that way of talking was developed by the Rich white people from England that ran the south back in the day. Isn't it fun mocking people?? :-) For all you know I am a black man from the South, and as an American I find it racist. Also your argument about being raised in the South doesn't hold water as it is akin to saying its ok for black people to call other black people by the N word. 2 wrongs don't make a right, regardless of skin color.

I wonder if you talk that way to your customers face, or just behind their backs. Now thats a sign of a true Professional.

**Jacqui** · 06-19-2008, 12:04 PM

I agree with Leo. Just remember that not all labs have patternless edgers, so maybe also having a cheap AIT Mark 5 or Weco 440 or Horizon 2 would be nice to show them how other machines work.

**optical24/7** · 06-19-2008, 01:08 PM

I agree with Jaqui. You want to teach them the fundmentals, get a Mark 5 Deluxe also. They are dirt cheap, and you got to use patterns, make some of them by hand (like rimless) and learn to adjust the lens size to the pattern used. You also will get really good at hand edging a lens down.

**OpticianVlad** · 06-19-2008, 05:08 PM

I agree with Jacqui and Optical,

I learned on a Weco 440 and an Optronics II
It certainly makes you better at working with your hands, Not so much the Horizon, but the Weco will :)
At school we used the AIT and the all powerful EdgeMaster.

Hand edging is a lost art that optical students appreciate if learned. Where I work now they never used the hand stone because they have the Lex-1000 which pin bevels and grooves on it's own. The hand stone was in storage and I had to set it up as soon as I got there. I've used it almost eveyday since to touch up some missed bevels on thin lenses.

**Chris Ryser** · 06-20-2008, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by OpticianVlad

The hand stone was in storage and I had to set it up as soon as I got there. I've used it almost eveyday since to touch up some missed bevels on thin lenses.

In storage.........................what a shame. As you state you been using it every day, so they missed out on a lot of good bevels without it.

To set up a lab, the bevel edger is not the only item you need. You will also need consumables, like lens treatments that can go from tinting, UV and other surface treatments, also scratch resistant treatments. As you probably want to produce jobs that will not cost a fortune, it would be a good idea to research all the options on that part of the optical lab., you can do yourself in house instead of purchasing the lenses at a premium.
check out my website at http://optochemicals.com as well as others in the same field.

**kpshann** · 06-20-2008, 11:23 AM

I cannot thank you all enough for your wealth of knowledge! Please keep it coming! To be honest, I was really afraid of posting for fear that people would not approve of how I learned the material and that I am mostly "book smart".

I love my job, I love the population I work with and I really love optics. I feel fortunate to have the opportunity to work with these women and help them obtain an education, self confidence and a trade that can change their and their children's lives. To the comment earlier about people being fearful of giving them a chance... I understand that. They have done things wrong that have led them to the place they are. I personally feel that their punishment is being here and I hope they do not continue to be punished for their past actions once they leave.

Some of my students have been passed over on opportunities because of where they came from, but some have not. All I can do is teach them to the best of my ability and give them all the skills I can to help them be the most qualified applicant. I always tell them that people will say no sometimes. For every no, there will be a yes somewhere; they just have to prove themselves!

Again, I really want to thank everyone for their advice. I welcome more as I read this post all the time and have to make my lab purchases soon! I was trying to hold off until the Vision Expo West, but they need me to buy before then.

If anyone in Oregon or Washington (near Portland) have a 7070 or other lab equipment I might be able to see/touch please contact me! I also love the idea about getting an old edger for them to learn as well. I spent some time on a Horizon II, but I hear alot of great things about the Weco 440.

Again, thank you and keep the info flowing!

Kpshann

**HarryChiling** · 06-20-2008, 11:40 AM

I also agree with Jaqui, optical24/7, and OpticianVlad. And the chain post continues.

Hand edging is a very very important skill if the lens is slightly off I would much rather touch it up on the hand stone while the other lens is in the edging chamber, it saves time and is a lot easier of course you do have to know what your doing.

Also as a tip for practice lenses call around to a bunch of labs and ask them for cull lenses or (scratched or defective lenses for practiceing with) this could save you a small fortune in lenses and you'll find that some labs will have lenses available for you for the asking.

Also contact various companies and ask them for materials for your students, like PD sticks or shanks as refered to in the joint (I kid I kid :D ), and other material you'll find that they may be able to help with a few supplies.