Finishing lab help and advice... please :)

[Leo Hadley Jr]

Maybe we can train them from scratch............



All kidding aside.........I once hired a lab technician who was trained on the inside. Great Worker!!!

I hope to meet you in Vegas

[johnnydraws]

Just a couple questions you might want to ask anyone you might partner with regarding your equipment:

1 - Where does the rep live who will be providing service and support throughout the relationship?

2 - What do you charge for service after my warranty has expired? Am I paying for the techs plane ticket and hotel stays as well as the hourly rate?

3 - How much and what kind of training will I recieve? Is it over the phone or in person? Just a couple hours or a couple of days?

[kpshann]

Hi again,

Okay, so I am getting lots of feedback. What do you all think of the Santinelli 7070 vs, the National Optronics 6E?

I am hearing alot of pros/cons of wet vs. dry. I would love your input.

kpshann

[Jamesnns]

Hi,

Thank you so much for your advice! To be honest, I have not decided if we will do rimless. Our population can be very hard on glasses, so I am unsure if rimless would be good. Although I feel it would benefit my ladies to learn how to make and repair them. What is your opinion?

For the 7070, the package comes with a Nidek ce-1 lens blocker and a Acutech AG 2000 lens groover.

The 9000 package does not have the groover and I cannot remember the blocker it comes with.

Do you like the Santinelli? It seems that people either love it or hate it. I had someone suggest the Horizon III, they said that the Santinelli is not capable of small B sizes.

Advice?

Uhmmmm, yes they are. Off the block they'll do a min. of 22mm. Smaller than that, get a 10mm chuck (rt hand side), and grind down an old left hand side chuck and you'll be able to as low as a 12mm B. I do it all the time.

Just my two cents.

And YES, buy from LEO.

[kpshann]

Jamesnns,

Do you have any feelings on dry vs. wet edging and the Santinelli 7070 vs the optronics 6E?

[Fezz]

Ok, this may be a little far out, but still something to consider:

The dry cut edger uses "blades".

Will these "blades" cause any safety concerns considering the environment that you will be in?

Just a thought!

[kpshann]

The blades should be fine... we will just have to keep replacements locked away and ensure that it is in the machine before they leave :)

So from what I have been hearing you replace the blades after about 400 jobs and the cost to replace is pretty cheap. I have been told that the wet edger uses the diamond wheel and you replace as it wears down it is is about $1500.00 to replace.

Also, I am being told that there are chemicals in the water (lubricant) in which it can make it difficult to dump down the drain... Then I am being told that there is only water!

Advice?

[Leo Hadley Jr]

Ok, this may be a little far out, but still something to consider:

The dry cut edger uses "blades".

Will these "blades" cause any safety concerns considering the environment that you will be in?

Just a thought!

:bbg: I didnt think of that!!!

I suppose one could craft a great weapon with a piece of wood, some twine and a few cutter blades. Or maybe even dig a tunnel.
Sorry Kelly, its hard to resist:bbg:

[MarcE]

Hand edging is a lost art that optical students appreciate if learned. Where I work now they never used the hand stone because they have the Lex-1000 which pin bevels and grooves on it's own. The hand stone was in storage and I had to set it up as soon as I got there. I've used it almost eveyday since to touch up some missed bevels on thin lenses.

Nothing like buying the most expensive, option laden instrument so you can perform . . . . inferior work.

No hand stone!!?? incredible. What do you do with the lens only job that doens't quite fit? I know that LEX-1000 doesn't do a roll and polish. Did you just not sell a roll and polish? How do you "fix" that lens to fit into a new frame? I use the hand stone 20 times a day. I can safety bevel 20 lenses on a hand stone in the time it takes my edger to do one.

It's not just a lost art, it's laziness and unprofessional.

Good job Vlad for restoring a bit of professionalism.

[Leo Hadley Jr]

So from what I have been hearing you replace the blades after about 400 jobs and the cost to replace is pretty cheap. I have been told that the wet edger uses the diamond wheel and you replace as it wears down it is is about $1500.00 to replace.

Also, I am being told that there are chemicals in the water (lubricant) in which it can make it difficult to dump down the drain... Then I am being told that there is only water!

Advice?

Optronics blades are cheap and disposable while wet cutting wheels are expensive and last for years. I never did the math but I am sure wheels are better.
Also, There is no need to use chemicals in your water. Especially with that clean cold forest water you have in the northwest.:D

[Jamesnns]

Jamesnns,

Do you have any feelings on dry vs. wet edging and the Santinelli 7070 vs the optronics 6E?

Yes, I've used both. Pros and Cons to each, but I prefer diamond wheels and water coolant. If you use Poly a lot then your blades will go dull rather quickly compared to just CR-39. Besides, dry cutting requires a vacume to suck up the debris that is LOUD. I've tried enclosing them in the past to lessen the volume but then they just get hot and burn up.

Regarding water. I use a water servo and a filter and then a sump pump. Clean water in (no chemicals), stocking hose (inmates will love that) to filter the debris from the water, then I have a sump pump in a large basin that pumps the water right down a regular drain. The cost of wheels compared to blades is less over time. With proper care and stoning, wheels should last years. You can only re-true blades three times before replacing them.
Defoamer (aka fabric softener) is/was used when edgers had pumps that would sit in a bucket of water and continually recycle that water for coolant. After several uses the water would become quite foamy from the debris, hence adding the chemicals.

I groove all my own rimless lenses. I can groove 5 pairs in the time the machine takes to groove one and I feel I have more control over the finished product.
The same goes for pin beveling lenses. For $500 just get a hand stone. You'll need it anyway for hand work...and you'll do hand work wether you think you won't or not.

One more thought. The more carp you have in a machine the more carp you have to break.
My two cents.

[kpshann]

Thanks for the info! I would still love to get lots of feedback on dry vs. wet! I think at this point I am looking at a Santinelli 7070 vs. the optronics 6E.

By the way... I received the scores today and all 9 pf my ladies passed! I just had to tell someone!! :)

[Leo Hadley Jr]

By the way... I received the scores today and all 9 pf my ladies passed! I just had to tell someone!! :)

Thats great!!! You are doing a wonderful service!!!

[DragonLensmanWV]

Thanks for the info! I would still love to get lots of feedback on dry vs. wet! I think at this point I am looking at a Santinelli 7070 vs. the optronics 6E.

By the way... I received the scores today and all 9 pf my ladies passed! I just had to tell someone!! :)

I personally prefer the blades in the Optronics 6E. The smaller diameter makes sharp corner cutting much better than a large diameter wheel. Wheels do last longer. You have nasty swarf to dispose of either way, and I think the dry swarf is easier to remove.

If all you are cutting is rounded safety shapes, that is not a concern.

[kpshann]

I think we are only going to offer 12 styles of frames, 6 for men, 6 for womens. There will be different styles so it will not just be round. So you prefer the optronics?

I really apperciate everyone helping me and being so understanding. I am getting alot of pros and cons to each machine and dry/wet. It is giving me alot to think about to help me with my purchase.

Again... if you are in Oregon or Washington and have a Santinelle 7070 or optronics 6E please let me know if I can come and see it!

[Leo Hadley Jr]

I think we are only going to offer 12 styles of frames, 6 for men, 6 for womens. There will be different styles so it will not just be round. So you prefer the optronics?

I really apperciate everyone helping me and being so understanding. I am getting alot of pros and cons to each machine and dry/wet. It is giving me alot to think about to help me with my purchase.

Again... if you are in Oregon or Washington and have a Santinelle 7070 or optronics 6E please let me know if I can come and see it!

I have both and am located right on the Gulf of Mexico.
Come on down!!!:D:D:D

[Jamesnns]

I liked the ability to run special bevels on the Optronics that would have ben impossible on any other machine. Bevels (forgot name) for the old Porsche Carrera frames back in the 80's, where I had to cut a "lip" into the lens so it would pop into the frame, then the bridge would close to secure it in place. Nice little feature back then. On the downside, running Poly on the Optronics was always a problem. The lenses were too big and would crack if 1-2 cutting a lens. I made a special pattern that would allow me to slowly bring in the lens to the blades eliminating that problem.
Ohhh, such memories.............................

You younger Guys and Gals have no idea how easy you have it today compared to us "old schooled" aging old farts....lol

[Jamesnns]

I think we are only going to offer 12 styles of frames, 6 for men, 6 for womens. There will be different styles so it will not just be round. So you prefer the optronics?

I really apperciate everyone helping me and being so understanding. I am getting alot of pros and cons to each machine and dry/wet. It is giving me alot to think about to help me with my purchase.

Again... if you are in Oregon or Washington and have a Santinelle 7070 or optronics 6E please let me know if I can come and see it!

Hey, ask if he has a LE 7070SX. It's much faster. But more importantly, it tends to do a better job of lens shape ( lenses that are flatter on top) than th reg 7070. The 7070 tends to round the tops off just a tad. No big deal really, just a little better.

Mt Two cents

[kpshann]

Leo,

Do you have this? Ahh just when I feel like I am narrowing it down I find more choices!

This is great, please keep all the advice coming.

kpshann

[Jamesnns]

Yeah he does, he has both. I don't think the SX would cost you much more anyways, if anything??.

I have Both the SX and the reg, so Im sure.

Such a reliable machine, you'll be happy.

[optical24/7]

I also have a LE 7070 SX. I agree with James. Very reliable.

[Leo Hadley Jr]

Leo,

Do you have this? Ahh just when I feel like I am narrowing it down I find more choices!

This is great, please keep all the advice coming.

kpshann

Yes Kelly,

You can have this option at the same price as quoted. I like the SX because it has two pumps and is cleaner IMHO.;)

[Jamesnns]

Yep, I forgot about that. One water pump in the back of the grinding chamber to reduce the swarf buildup and another for the grinding wheels. MUCH cleaner.
I'm constantly using a water bottle with a hole in the cap to spray the back to keep it clean with my 7070. Bonus advantage with the SX!

[kpshann]

Thanks for telling me about the Sx... sounds cleaner, which is better. Also, what do you all think about Briots? I just had a rep come out to meet me and give me information. I am just feeling the water for what you all might think, have experienced or heard! :)

[Jamesnns]

Thanks for telling me about the Sx... sounds cleaner, which is better. Also, what do you all think about Briots? I just had a rep come out to meet me and give me information. I am just feeling the water for what you all might think, have experienced or heard! :)

Remember, just my opinioun.

Run.