online glasses story on NPR.

[HarryChiling]

The fact of the matter is that what went out over the air was a demeaning and devaluing to our profession and products. Unless he retracts his statements the damage has been done and the back and forth e-mail sdo nothing but encourage you as a listener to stay tuned to more rederick.

A menu, I wonder when my primary care physician is going to offer me a menu of drugs to choose from to cure my conditions. I'll take the dozen percocettes with a side order of valium. :hammer: Not that eyewear is the same or has parralels to prescription drugs but to call the post here professional and then offer up a menu to avoid the professionals is contradicting.

I would consider the sale of online eyewear in licensed states as psuedo illegal and am curious why nothign is being done about it or why it's not even being mentioned?

[Uncle Fester]

I did some self-googling and came upon the lively discussion at Optiboard. If you care to share with your colleagues, This is what I'd like to see: A menu. I think it would be very helpful if there were a signboard listing brands, types, and prices. Then a customer could ask, "What is that lens I see there for $59?" and the optician could say, "That is the Essilor Adaptar, an older design, perfectly servicable lens, which many people find satisfactory." And the customer could ask, "What is that Anti-Reflective coating for $30? Do I need that?" And the optician could say, "Not really, but you might like it." Etc. I think the main appeal of the online opticians I cited, besides the savings, is the array of offerings to be regarded without pressure--missing in most cases is someone to explain them, so only the adventurous (like me) are apt to take the plunge.

I can see it now- Walk-in " Hey thanks for explanations of the 600+ (this is a real number DP) menu options of progressives. I didn't realize there were so many! Frankly I can still get them cheaper on line. But really,seriously, thanks for the hour of your time. I now know just what I want. Can I borrow your ruler for a sec?"

[HarryChiling]

I can see it now- Walk-in " Hey thanks for explanations of the 600+ (this is a real number DP) menu options of progressives. I didn't realize there were so many! Frankly I can still get them cheaper on line. But really,seriously, thanks for the hour of your time. I now know just what I want. Can I borrow your ruler for a sec?"

Right, it's not bad enough we're being screwed, but now the guys asking us to lube up and be ready. :hammer:

[Barry Santini]

...that I would have written his "cheap-eyewear" piece...

for half of what NPR paid him to do it!
And I would've done a better job, too!

FWIW

Barry

[Johns]

This just in from Daniel Pinkwater:

"Well, I'll tell you, Andrew, I like opticians and optometrists--they're usually intelligent people, and if I hadn't gotten lucky as a writer, I might have considered a career in those fields.

...and then he would be able to try to justify the pricing of his services and products with those of a sweatshop in China.

[HarryChiling]

...that I would have written his "cheap-eyewear" piece...

for half of what NPR paid him to do it!
And I would've done a better job, too!

FWIW

Barry

:cheers:

[kws6000]

Who cares what he thinks?

There is going to be that segment of the populace that is only driven by price,but there are still lots of others that are willing to pay more for better service and quality in a bricks and mortar location.

If you look at general retail ,not everyone shops at discount outlets for the same items.Here in Canada,online booksellers charge 30-40% less than regular brick and mortar operations.I havent seen any regular bookstores close down from lack of business.

I would charge whatever your normal dispensing fee is for troubleshooting problems with online glasses and would also charge for frame adjustments in these cases.If the customer doesnt want to pay,let them go elsewhere.

[chip anderson]

No problem, only leftwingers, communists and democrats listen to NPR and who needs customers like that?
Let Al Gore and Bill Mahr shop on line.

Chip

Besides if they could ruin the contact lens business with mail order and on line why not the rest of the optical business. And I am sure you know that corporations and business in general are bad in NPR's eyes. In fact anything that exists and is for profit is bad in NPR's eyes. Example: NPR is not for profit and couldn't exist if it had to compete with those that are.

[finefocus]

So, Chip, it's all sarcasm? I'd be gratified to hear that. I myself am a democrat but not a Democrat. Did you forego capitalization by design, or some other cause?

[Paul E. Carbonate]

This is sorta kinda apropos...I had a dude come in a few weeks ago; he had purchased a designer frame online (I think O. Peoples, but can't remember, at any rate it looked stupid). I gave him the warnings about using his own frame and sold him lenses.
Lo and behold, upon delivery he notices the frame is literally an inch or more too wide and demands I fix it. My answer, of course, was that he needed to contact the internet retailer who sold him the frame and demand a frame that fits.
He left, looking like an idiot and whining. Something tells me he won't be buying glasses online again anytime soon.

[haliopt]

I would love to get a look at this dude.
Cuts his own hair...15 yr old sweater...black poly pants...cardboard shoes and $100.00 glasses (big and round..7 yrs out dated) Life of the party...no...just at parties for the free snacks.
Oh he is a sharp one...can't fool him...loves a bargoon.
What a bag of air. And how insulting to his audience that are supporting the local opticals and are too stupid to google cheap glasses and end up paying the same as a used car for their eyeglasses. I guess he drives a $600.00 car too. I can't believe he got me soooo angry. What a bag of air.

[Bill Mahnke]

Well like it or not sales of eyeglasses (like everything else) are increasing on the net. The public may find "internet eyeglasses" to be one of those "never again" purchases.

One of the cheapest sites I've found is http://zennioptical.com/cart/cart.php They say they're in California!! For a price lower than the NPR article you can get a frame, AR coated progressive 1.57 lenses (we had 1.57 index 10+ years ago, it was pulled because it didn't meet impact standards).

So the PD is pretty simple for people to get but I don't understand what they do about the fitting height??

[Barry Santini]

So the PD is pretty simple for people to get but I don't understand what they do about the fitting height??

Honestly...I think all of us could agree that, in the absence of:

1. Properly pre-fitting the frame
2. Identifying any observable or uncovered postural habits/tendencies
3. Understanding client preference, i.e., "eyewear *all the way up* or *all the way down* (the nose, that is...)
4. Forecasting how much the chosen frame may slip/stretch

A simple formula, based on the "B" dimesion of the frame, could easily (?) provide a useful pupil/bifocal height....yes?

IMHO...excellence requires both parties to participate. Everything else is close to commodity, which is what the internet excels at.

FWIW

Barry

[Ladyoptician]

A menu, I love it....note sarcasm. Is that not why we are trained professionals??? To advise a patient on what is best for their particular needs for their particular visual problems!!!?? Not to let them pick from a menu!! Next we'll have drive thru windows! This guy is not as savvy as he thinks he is.

[Aarlan]

From a few websites, these are some nuggets of wisdom:



"Can I measure my own pupillary Distance (PD)?

Yes, it’s easy! Your PD is the distance between the centre of your pupils when you are looking straight ahead.

To measure your PD:

• Place a millimeter ruler on the bridge of your nose.
• Measure the distance between the centre of your pupils (the black dots in the middle of your eyes) by looking in a mirror.

You can also have a friend measure it for you or get the information from your optician.

As a guideline: Most adult PD’s are between 55-70"



http://www.cheapspecs.co.uk/resource/support/faq




AND ALSO,




A "...new method of measuring progressive seg heights has proven to be even more accurate than conventional measuring! "


http://www.framesdirect.com/lens_drh.asp


ENJOY!!!:)

[Aarlan]

Maybe I'll stop using a CRP, seg measures, sharpies, pd sticks, penlights and such, and just use these methods!!!!

AA

[Johns]

Who cares what he thinks?

I do!

The general concensus here seems to be that this reporter is just an average joe. And he is. I've heard him, he speaks in a dry, monotone, tone, that makes the listner feel like they're talking to some guy on the bus. That's probably why he's popular; because he's just like a lot of people we know.

What really seemed to hit a nerve with people though, is how this "average joe" believes we should be offering optical services...by utilizing a menu of all things! Well if that doesn't give you insight into what the perception of (some) of the general public is, regarding the optical industry is, then I don't know what does!

To add insult to injury, he didn't just say menu, he said "a menu on the wall..." I think I could handle being compared to a restaraunt if it was at least a decent place like Michaels in NYC, or some other fine dining establishment, but he compared us to a stinking fast food joint!!

You can't be a waiter, a waitress, nor a hostess in a fast food joint. You can only be an order taker. Period. They tell you what they want, you punch it in, and it slides down the shoot in a cardboard box.

This NPR piece just reinforced the notion that not everyone wants the best products and services available. It also made me realize again that we had better be going out of our way to show our customers which one we are, fine dining, or Winky Dinky Dogs.

Also, if he had done a piece on fast food, would all the classy establishments be rankled? I doubt it.

I think that the whole segment just showed that when it comes to what he'll put on his face, he's got no issues w/ buying something from a sweatshop in China, and hoping for the best. Thankfully, our customers have more class.

[varmint]

Arlan,
On frames direct, maybe I missed something but I couldn't find anything to tell me how his progressive measuring method actually worked.

I don't know how these sited could be enforced by the state license boards even if there is a complaint. I'm sure there are violations of the Az board rules broken at least sometimes. I guess the law only applies to us as licensed opticians & not other retailers.

from the Az State Board

R4-20-119. Substandard Care
A. It is substandard care for a dispensing optician:
1. To dispense improperly manufactured eyeglasses or contact lenses. If a complaint indicates that eyeglasses or contact lenses dispensed by a dispensing optician or other employee of an optical establishment may have been improperly manufactured, the Board shall be guided in its determination of the facts by referring to the standards incorporated by reference in subsection (B) with regard to the individual parameters listed in the standards and considering patient wear, care, and usage;
2. When interpreting written prescriptions, to fail to follow standards incorporated by reference in subsection (B) in determining lens powers due to differences in vertex distances, base curvatures, special lens requirements, and facial fitting problems, or to fail to comply with special instructions of the vision practitioner or optometrist shown on the prescription without the full knowledge and consent of the customer, the physician, or optometrist;
3. To fail to follow manufacturer’s guidelines regarding usual and customary lens thickness of eyewear;
4. To intentionally or negligently injure a customer during the course of optical dispensing; or
5. To fail to give the customer appropriate instructions on the care, handling, and wearing of an optical device.

[Aarlan]

I think they'll claim it is proprietary. I saw the link a while ago, but come to think of it, I don't think I ever saw the formula....probably something like, "5 mm above Geo center"....very complex...

AA

[DragonLensmanWV]

I think they'll claim it is proprietary. I saw the link a while ago, but come to think of it, I don't think I ever saw the formula....probably something like, "5 mm above Geo center"....very complex...

AA

Or 2/3 B measurement.

[MarcE]

This NPR piece just reinforced the notion that not everyone wants the best products and services available. It also made me realize again that we had better be going out of our way to show our customers which one we are, fine dining, or Winky Dinky Dogs.

For once John, I disagree with you. The internet sales are concerning because even people who want the best are not against searching for it on the internet. I just got an Oakley frame in today that was bought on the internet for $55. At least he still trusts me with his premium AR lenses.
People I know search hard online for the best deal on a 60" 1080p plasma TV, because they hope to save the 3% markup that Best Buy enjoys.
Shopping online has now become a hobby of 'how much can I save?'
And most people aren't against using your shop as a showroom for their internet shopping experience.
I don't see this as a problem right now - but it could be going forward.

[Fezz]

For once John, I disagree with you. The internet sales are concerning because even people who want the best are not against searching for it on the internet. I just got an Oakley frame in today that was bought on the internet for $55. At least he still trusts me with his premium AR lenses.
People I know search hard online for the best deal on a 60" 1080p plasma TV, because they hope to save the 3% markup that Best Buy enjoys.
Shopping online has now become a hobby of 'how much can I save?'
And most people aren't against using your shop as a showroom for their internet shopping experience.
I don't see this as a problem right now - but it could be going forward.

Very interesting viewpoint.

Should we truly consider charging cost+service fee? We could push the warranties, service issues, etc on the manufactures directly.

It might avoid a whole bunch of headaches...or create them?

[Johns]

For once John, I disagree with you. The internet sales are concerning because even people who want the best are not against searching for it on the internet. I just got an Oakley frame in today that was bought on the internet for $55. At least he still trusts me with his premium AR lenses.

MarcE,

We're really not that far off. This Pinky guy wasn't searching the net for quality products, but rather for something he could see through at the lowest price. What was it, $99?

Even the guy that bought the $55 Oakley was willing to risk a counterfeit, and be satisfied w/an unwarranted product. Again, not getting premium.

If I was inclined to buy a 60" plasma TV, I'd get a premium brand name unit. I'd also expect to get it at a pretty good discount, but not bottom of the barrel cheap.

If I was looking for the lowest price piece of junk, I wouldn't care that it was made by the WangTang TV company. I also wouldn't expect the quality to be great.

I was refering to people like our friend Pinky, and other bottom feeders.

Don't get me wrong, internet sales are here to stay, and they are a concern, but so is LC and WM, and in many cases, they've done nothing but make us all look better.

[Christosfer]

I think he makes a point that is worth while. I agree with Harry, there is a market that we can't ignore. There are some decent progressives out there that cost a lot less, AR too. Paying for the big brands I am beginning to think is rather questionable. As much as I have liked Zeiss and Essilor in the past, Vision ease and Younger have good lenses at much less.
I think it makes good sense to offer a budget package. With the economy and gas prices as they are I am hearing about prices. The other side of the issue is this, people will justify spending plenty of money on their own pet things, getting your nails and hair done, bowling night, whatever. So we either have to get people to adopt eyewear as a justified expense like car repair, or start offering the kind of prices that many people are looking for.

I recently price matched a Continuum computer lens with AR from Walmart, they are charging $75.:drop: I didn't do it for the money, I did it because I walmart was calling me to ask how to read the Rx for a computer lens. I was teaching the "Optician" how to transpose over the phone, three phone calls and the optical couldn't get it. I got tired of explaining it to them, so I called the P.T. and worked out a deal so that I could just get it over with. We made a couple dollars on the deal, not much, more importantly, we denied Walmart a sale. Victory!


By the way, our lab broke her frame. :o
I found her another drill mount from one of those walmart like companies for a couple bucks and I am giving it to her. Also, because we have finishing lab I could price match, otherwise it would have been a loss.

Food for thought.

[drk]

...but I have to put in my opinion.

Daniel Pinkwater, like all journalism professionals, have the complex that everything is a rip-off. If they shine their light of objective journalistic investigation upon it they will be doing mankind a great favor.

His next article will be about some sympathetic character who lost his job or lost his leg in an industrial accident due to faulty eyeglasses. A followup expose will reveal the hazards of cheap frame or lens materials.

It won't phase Mr. Pinkwater one little bit, and the irony will be totally lost on him.